Folks
I tried the net-install, because my computer has no DVD, only a CD. The system has a USB connected keyboard, and it works just fine accessing the built-in BIOS.
However, when I booted the netinstall CD, the initial screen which asks for the type of installation did not respond to the keyboard. I was therefore forced to wait the 30-seconds for the timeout, at which point the install screen showed up and the keyboard worked.
I fear that the net-install image may not support USB keyboards, which if so, is unfortunate.
The alternate of burning multiple CDs (as I've done with earlier versions) appears unavailable in CENTOS 6.
Furthermore, I was never given the choice of using a GUI or text install; I guess the old display device isn't supported in the install system. Not being given any choices of packages during the install (a fact noted in the release notes) resulted, however, a system where a lot of the expected utility programs weren't there.: a) "yum" worked b) No SSH client appeared to exist, nor did YUM know about it. c) Several useful utilities were not there, so they had to be installed via yum.
As a result, the process of bringing this system to a usable state consisted of: 1) Burn net-install CD 2) Answer the few questions. 3) For the net-install site, use http://mirror.centos.org/centos/6.0/os/i386 4) When it boots, use yum: yum install ftp perl unzip 5)
COMMENT: One of the nice properties of Linux has been that it can be installed and run on "old" hardware. I wonder if this feature is going away.
David
david wrote:
COMMENT: One of the nice properties of Linux has been that it can be installed and run on "old" hardware. I wonder if this feature is going away.
CentOS dev team will, in next few days release several general purpose CD's Like Minimal server CD and Minimal Installation CD. LiveCD should also be coming soon and hopefully it will have "Install on HDD" option to help you install from CD device.
CentOS 6 was not really intended for slower systems, none of the newer distros are. CentOS 6 kernel for example does not support 586 CPU's.
Best advice for people with CD's is please be patient and wait several days untill additional media is created.
Ljubomir
CentOS 6 was not really intended for slower systems, none of the newer distros are. CentOS 6 kernel for example does not support 586 CPU's.
I'd like to know where you read that because I'm looking at putting CentOS 6 onto a couple of lower end boxes, specifically a P3-800(mobile) and an older VIA EPIA, which are fully supported in CentOS 5.
On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 05:54:56AM -0700, Drew wrote:
CentOS 6 was not really intended for slower systems, none of the newer distros are. CentOS 6 kernel for example does not support 586 CPU's.
I'd like to know where you read that because I'm looking at putting CentOS 6 onto a couple of lower end boxes, specifically a P3-800(mobile) and an older VIA EPIA, which are fully supported in CentOS 5.
While I don't know aobut the VIA EPIA, any P3 is a "i686" compatible processor, and would therefore be supported.
586-class cpus include all pentiums prior to PII/Pentium-Pro, all Intel chips older than that, AMD K5, K6, K6-II and some number of cyrix/via chips (which ones, specifically, I do not know).
centos-bounces@centos.org wrote:
On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 05:54:56AM -0700, Drew wrote:
CentOS 6 was not really intended for slower systems, none of the newer distros are. CentOS 6 kernel for example does not support 586 CPU's.
I'd like to know where you read that because I'm looking at putting CentOS 6 onto a couple of lower end boxes, specifically a P3-800(mobile) and an older VIA EPIA, which are fully supported in CentOS 5.
While I don't know aobut the VIA EPIA, any P3 is a "i686" compatible processor, and would therefore be supported.
586-class cpus include all pentiums prior to PII/Pentium-Pro, all Intel chips older than that, AMD K5, K6, K6-II and some number of cyrix/via chips (which ones, specifically, I do not know).
Add: AMD Geode (586 non-PAE) can run CentOS 5 but not 6.
Desired: Somebody who is good with repos and rpms please put the linux kernel (for centos 6) "somewhere" so
Yum --enablerepo=somewhere install full-kernel-source
will put the kernel source on our machines so we "abandoned children" can at least feed ourselves. We can hack the kernel until we all can run CentOS 6 on our wind-up-key embedded/headless/whatever minimachines.
Insert spiffy .sig here: Life is complex: it has both real and imaginary parts. Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away.
//me ******************************************************************* This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. www.Hubbell.com - Hubbell Incorporated**
On 07/12/2011 02:32 PM, Brunner, Brian T. wrote:
Add: AMD Geode (586 non-PAE) can run CentOS 5 but not 6.
Desired: Somebody who is good with repos and rpms please put the linux kernel (for centos 6) "somewhere" so
the via EPIA and the P3 mentioned earlier in this thread are all i686 compatible, so pose no real issue for C6 to run on. However, with the Geode, it might be a bit more difficult.
also, i suspect its not just the kernel that needs rebuilding and mod'ing of patches for, you might need to rebuild much of userland as well.
- KB
centos-bounces@centos.org wrote:
On 07/12/2011 02:32 PM, Brunner, Brian T. wrote:
Add: AMD Geode (586 non-PAE) can run CentOS 5 but not 6.
Desired: Somebody who is good with repos and rpms please put the linux kernel (for centos 6) "somewhere" so
the via EPIA and the P3 mentioned earlier in this thread are all i686 compatible, so pose no real issue for C6 to run on. However, with the Geode, it might be a bit more difficult.
also, i suspect its not just the kernel that needs rebuilding and mod'ing of patches for, you might need to rebuild much of userland as well.
- KB
CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
-march=i586 cures many many many ills. Rebuilding the whole damned distro takes a few zillion machine cycles. Running the Linux Verification Suite takes another few zillion cycles. But, once done, it's done. It's just more spin domain knowledge than I wanted to become proficient at. However: if nobody else will, I must, or I must take my employers' product/project and go elsewhere.
Insert spiffy .sig here: Life is complex: it has both real and imaginary parts. Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away.
//me ******************************************************************* This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. www.Hubbell.com - Hubbell Incorporated**
Drew wrote:
CentOS 6 was not really intended for slower systems, none of the newer distros are. CentOS 6 kernel for example does not support 586 CPU's.
I'd like to know where you read that because I'm looking at putting CentOS 6 onto a couple of lower end boxes, specifically a P3-800(mobile) and an older VIA EPIA, which are fully supported in CentOS 5.
Generally, when you develop any app, you add more and more features and you need more powerful hardware to run at the same speed.
Fedora 12-15 for example need more space on boot partition (500MB is I am not mistaken) and CentOS5/Fedora6 only needed <100MB.
I am sure other optimizations were made in kernel and in other packages in order to exploit all features of modern hardware. And since Linux distro's are developed by vast number of developers mostly like newest and greatest, it is logical to expect bloated code. When you add to the mix the fact that most of the developers is more focused on adding new features (that need more power to be done) then on fixing bug (a long time problem for Fedora, Ubuntu, all distros using bleeding edge software) then optimizing the code so it can run on older hardware is not likely to happen.
Packages in RHEL 5.0(x) were designed to run optimally on hardware from 4-5 years. Similarly, RHEL 6 packages are reflection of the today software and I don't expect any optimizations for older hardware.
That being said, I never said it will not run on older hardware, just that they (most developers of most packages) don't care that much about older hardware, and my reply was aimed at gradual disappearance of CD medium from more and more distro's. Reply could be "take DVD drive from somewhere and hook it up instead of CD drive, then return it when you finish.
Ljubomir
On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 9:31 AM, Ljubomir Ljubojevic office@plnet.rs wrote:
Fedora 12-15 for example need more space on boot partition (500MB is I am not mistaken) and CentOS5/Fedora6 only needed <100MB.
F12-F15 need a larger "/boot" for the "preupgrade" tool (to upgrade from one version to the next) to run properly.
Tom H wrote:
On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 9:31 AM, Ljubomir Ljubojevic office@plnet.rs wrote:
Fedora 12-15 for example need more space on boot partition (500MB is I am not mistaken) and CentOS5/Fedora6 only needed <100MB.
F12-F15 need a larger "/boot" for the "preupgrade" tool (to upgrade from one version to the next) to run properly.
Ahhh, excellent then, I was thinking of repartitioning my drives (still had no time to read Release Notes, pending).
Ljubomir
Ljubomir Ljubojevic wrote:
Drew wrote:
CentOS 6 was not really intended for slower systems, none of the newer distros are. CentOS 6 kernel for example does not support 586 CPU's.
I'd like to know where you read that because I'm looking at putting CentOS 6 onto a couple of lower end boxes, specifically a P3-800(mobile) and an older VIA EPIA, which are fully supported in CentOS 5.
Generally, when you develop any app, you add more and more features and you need more powerful hardware to run at the same speed.
And then there's the nothing-but-eye-candy, and the "we'll just change something, because that look is *so* last year" (like the assinine M$ "ribbon" replacing menu bars....).
Fedora 12-15 for example need more space on boot partition (500MB is I am not mistaken) and CentOS5/Fedora6 only needed <100MB.
250M works. <snip> mark
On 7/12/2011 9:31 AM, Ljubomir Ljubojevic wrote:
That being said, I never said it will not run on older hardware, just that they (most developers of most packages) don't care that much about older hardware, and my reply was aimed at gradual disappearance of CD medium from more and more distro's. Reply could be "take DVD drive from somewhere and hook it up instead of CD drive, then return it when you finish. Ljubomir _______________________________________________ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
I suppose the Proliant users could be mad at HP for being old school with only CD-Roms in even their G4 servers. (and no, these 2U servers can't hold a standard DVD drive as the space if very low profile) But I'm rarely mad at the Proliant line of servers. I suppose as these are 'servers', they don't really need any DVD drive, except to answer to the packaging of OS softwares (and they normally go with 'known good hardware' over new stuff). I wouldn't consider G4s old and slow... 8 gigs of ram and a dual 3.6g xeon processors isn't all that slow or shabby. For a webserver, it is downright spunky! And, as PHP is so dead in 5, we must move on to 6. I will find a way to install this on these Proliants, but shame on Redhat for not doing CDs. Kudos to CentOS for helping our community with an upcoming CD solutions! In the meantime, I'll get around to experimenting and report any successes here.
On 7/12/2011 11:13 AM, John Hinton wrote:
I will find a way to install this on these Proliants, but shame on Redhat for not doing CDs.
Unless it is your first linux install at a location, NFS should be the easy route. It was always easier than burning/juggling the whole CD set even when they did make the isos because the installer knows how to handle the iso image(s) directly.
john
you can inexpensively purchase proper slim dvd drives for proliant servers
we have done so for G3. G4 is essentially same
- rh
On 07/12/11 9:13 AM, John Hinton wrote:
I wouldn't consider G4s old and slow... 8 gigs of ram and a dual 3.6g xeon processors isn't all that slow or shabby.
except today's model is 48GB of ram[1] and dual 6 core 3Ghz CPUs, each core of which is significantly faster than those P4/Netburst xeon. With virtualization, one of these servers can likely support 8 or more VMs each with the performance of your G4s
[1] the config I just ordered, 48GB uses half the ram slots, so I can easily double that to 96GB by adding 6 more 8GB dimms
On Tuesday, July 12, 2011 08:54:56 AM Drew wrote:
CentOS 6 was not really intended for slower systems, none of the newer distros are. CentOS 6 kernel for example does not support 586 CPU's.
I'd like to know where you read that because I'm looking at putting CentOS 6 onto a couple of lower end boxes, specifically a P3-800(mobile) and an older VIA EPIA, which are fully supported in CentOS 5.
EL6 of any flavor needs more horsepower than EL5 of any flavor. Read the installation minimum requirements, both from the centos.org site and the redhat.com site. PAE is required, for instance. 392MB of RAM is the minimum to install, for another.
EL5 will be supported for a while yet, and it may be the best choice for your needs.
I have a few older boxes, too (some *much* older than a PPro, even) and it's just going to be a simple fact that EL6 is just not going to run there.
There are lighter linuxes out there that are still up to date; Alpine, for instance, as well as TinyCore. I quote those because they both seem to be recently updated and both seem to have reasonably modern packages available; and neither require a lot of horsepower for the base system.
Some Linux variants still work fine with older stuff; upstream has decided that EL6 is not one of them.
On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 3:37 AM, david david@daku.org wrote:
Folks
I tried the net-install, because my computer has no DVD, only a CD. The system has a USB connected keyboard, and it works just fine accessing the built-in BIOS.
However, when I booted the netinstall CD, the initial screen which asks for the type of installation did not respond to the keyboard. I was therefore forced to wait the 30-seconds for the timeout, at which point the install screen showed up and the keyboard worked.
I fear that the net-install image may not support USB keyboards, which if so, is unfortunate.
The alternate of burning multiple CDs (as I've done with earlier versions) appears unavailable in CENTOS 6.
Furthermore, I was never given the choice of using a GUI or text install; I guess the old display device isn't supported in the install system. Not being given any choices of packages during the install (a fact noted in the release notes) resulted, however, a system where a lot of the expected utility programs weren't there.: a) "yum" worked b) No SSH client appeared to exist, nor did YUM know about it. c) Several useful utilities were not there, so they had to be installed via yum.
you need > 652MB of ram for the GUI install: http://wiki.centos.org/Manuals/ReleaseNotes/CentOS6.0#head-710e17fe8ed8c98a1...
As a result, the process of bringing this system to a usable state consisted of:
- Burn net-install CD
- Answer the few questions.
- For the net-install site, use
http://mirror.centos.org/centos/6.0/os/i386 4) When it boots, use yum: yum install ftp perl unzip 5)
COMMENT: One of the nice properties of Linux has been that it can be installed and run on "old" hardware. I wonder if this feature is going away.
David
CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
On 07/11/2011 08:37 PM, david wrote:
I fear that the net-install image may not support USB keyboards, which if so, is unfortunate.
that is not true, I've done a couple of installs on machines that only hae usb keyboards and its been fine. Could it be a model / bios / firmware issue ?
- KB
At 11:37 PM 7/13/2011, you wrote:
On 07/11/2011 08:37 PM, david wrote:
I fear that the net-install image may not support USB keyboards, which if so, is unfortunate.
that is not true, I've done a couple of installs on machines that only hae usb keyboards and its been fine. Could it be a model / bios / firmware issue ?
- KB
Dear KB:
You are right-on. It turns out that the BIOS has a setting "USB Emulation", which if turned on, lets a USB keyboard/mouse behave like the PS2 version. With this option turned on, the USB keyboard worked throughout the install process. With this option turned off, the USB keyboard was not visible to the first net-install screen, although apparently some native USB drivers came into play later.
So here's one "problem" that has evaporated. On to the next one.
David
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