Will there be a Centos 4.4 release sometine in the near future?
On 7/25/06, BRUCE STANLEY bruce.stanley@prodigy.net wrote:
Will there be a Centos 4.4 release sometine in the near future?
After upstream releases, it's rebuilt, and tested, yes.
On Tue, 2006-07-25 at 09:04 -0700, BRUCE STANLEY wrote:
Will there be a Centos 4.4 release sometine in the near future?
IIRC, about a week and some-odd ago, one of the folks said it was coming in about a month. I presume around the 2nd week in August if some (in)famous slippage by the RH crew doesn't occur.
<snip sig stuff>
"William L. Maltby" BillsCentOS@triad.rr.com wrote: On Tue, 2006-07-25 at 09:04 -0700, BRUCE STANLEY wrote:
Will there be a Centos 4.4 release sometine in the near future?
IIRC, about a week and some-odd ago, one of the folks said it was coming in about a month. I presume around the 2nd week in August if some (in)famous slippage by the RH crew doesn't occur.
BRUCE STANLEY wrote:
Thanks for the Info. I may wait and skip 4.3 then.
"Skip" in which way? And why? 4.4 is just "Release 4, Update 4", while 4.3 is "Release 4, Update 3". You're not getting anything really new with 4.4, upgrading via yum from 4.3 to 4.4 is just as easy as upgrading to get security updates.
IMNSHO there's no need for waiting - you'll get CentOS 4 now with 4.3 and you will be getting CentOS 4 then with 4.4.
Ralph
Ralph Angenendt ra+centos@br-online.de wrote: BRUCE STANLEY wrote:
Thanks for the Info. I may wait and skip 4.3 then.
"Skip" in which way? And why? 4.4 is just "Release 4, Update 4", while 4.3 is "Release 4, Update 3". You're not getting anything really new with 4.4, upgrading via yum from 4.3 to 4.4 is just as easy as upgrading to get security updates.
IMNSHO there's no need for waiting - you'll get CentOS 4 now with 4.3 and you will be getting CentOS 4 then with 4.4.
Ralph
Hi Ralph!
I don't do yum updates on my home system due to slow (56k) Internet connect ability at this time.
Thus, I will do a full install (ater backing up) of the next release I go to. I am currently using 4.1.
If 4.4 is going to come out in the next month or so, I'll just wait for it to be rlease.
On Tue, Jul 25, 2006 at 12:12:07PM -0700, BRUCE STANLEY enlightened us:
Ralph Angenendt ra+centos@br-online.de wrote: BRUCE STANLEY wrote:
Thanks for the Info. I may wait and skip 4.3 then.
"Skip" in which way? And why? 4.4 is just "Release 4, Update 4", while 4.3 is "Release 4, Update 3". You're not getting anything really new with 4.4, upgrading via yum from 4.3 to 4.4 is just as easy as upgrading to get security updates.
IMNSHO there's no need for waiting - you'll get CentOS 4 now with 4.3 and you will be getting CentOS 4 then with 4.4.
Ralph
Hi Ralph!
I don't do yum updates on my home system due to slow (56k) Internet connect ability at this time.
Thus, I will do a full install (ater backing up) of the next release I go to. I am currently using 4.1.
If 4.4 is going to come out in the next month or so, I'll just wait for it to be rlease.
No need to do a full install, you can yum update from the DVD (I'm assuming you're going to get the ISO somewhere with a fast connection, bring it home, and go from there).
Matt
On Tue, 2006-07-25 at 15:20 -0400, Matt Hyclak wrote: ...
No need to do a full install, you can yum update from the DVD (I'm assuming you're going to get the ISO somewhere with a fast connection, bring it home, and go from there).
Brings to mind the old quote attributed to Andy Tannenbaum - "Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of nine-track tape."
The modern analog might be "Never underestimate the bandwidth of DVDs [CDs] via the postal service." Might be better-faster-cheaper to deal with somebody like http://www.frozentech.com/ or http://www.rustystechstuff.com/ as opposed to downloading via telephone modem.
Phil
Matt Hyclak spake the following on 7/25/2006 12:20 PM:
On Tue, Jul 25, 2006 at 12:12:07PM -0700, BRUCE STANLEY enlightened us:
Ralph Angenendt ra+centos@br-online.de wrote: BRUCE STANLEY wrote:
Thanks for the Info. I may wait and skip 4.3 then.
"Skip" in which way? And why? 4.4 is just "Release 4, Update 4", while 4.3 is "Release 4, Update 3". You're not getting anything really new with 4.4, upgrading via yum from 4.3 to 4.4 is just as easy as upgrading to get security updates.
IMNSHO there's no need for waiting - you'll get CentOS 4 now with 4.3 and you will be getting CentOS 4 then with 4.4.
Ralph
Hi Ralph!
I don't do yum updates on my home system due to slow (56k) Internet connect ability at this time.
Thus, I will do a full install (ater backing up) of the next release I go to. I am currently using 4.1.
If 4.4 is going to come out in the next month or so, I'll just wait for it to be rlease.
No need to do a full install, you can yum update from the DVD (I'm assuming you're going to get the ISO somewhere with a fast connection, bring it home, and go from there).
Matt
You could download the dvd iso to a removable hard drive or something, and connect that drive to your server and loop mount the dvd image. Centos won't care if you have an actual DVD or an image. I have seen USB hard drives in the 40 to 80 GB range at different places for closeout prices lately. Everyone wants the larger sizes. You can also find USB adapters that plug right into an old hard drive.
BRUCE STANLEY wrote:
I don't do yum updates on my home system due to slow (56k) Internet connect ability at this time.
Bruce,
I've been thinking about you lately. By that, I mean that I have been wondering about Linux users on modem connections.
I've been noting the absolutely huge volume (in MB) of patches for Linux distros which always seem to assume a broadband connection.
It is admittedly a bit off topic for a CentOS list, since CentOS is committed to fidelity to the updates provided upstream.
But I would be interested in your thoughts on the matter. I figure CentOS, Debian Stable, or Suse are the best bet, these days.
Suse, I believe, does binary deltas so you don't have to download the whole package to fix a one liner.
-Steve Bergman
Steve Bergman steve@rueb.com wrote: BRUCE STANLEY wrote:
I don't do yum updates on my home system due to slow (56k) Internet connect ability at this time.
Bruce,
I've been thinking about you lately. By that, I mean that I have been wondering about Linux users on modem connections.
I've been noting the absolutely huge volume (in MB) of patches for Linux distros which always seem to assume a broadband connection.
It is admittedly a bit off topic for a CentOS list, since CentOS is committed to fidelity to the updates provided upstream.
But I would be interested in your thoughts on the matter. I figure CentOS, Debian Stable, or Suse are the best bet, these days.
Suse, I believe, does binary deltas so you don't have to download the whole package to fix a one liner.
-Steve Bergman Hi Steve!
I have not tried upgrading via a DVD because my system only has a CD-ROM and a CD-RW drive. I don't know if you can yum from 4 or 5 CDs or not.
I may be changing this in the near future though by replacing the CD-ROM with a DVD-RW. Then maybe I could try the yum DVD methord in the future.
Being able to easily segment an update stream selectively in smaller chunks could help in a 56k connect situation.
My experience with updates on Linux (maninly KDE), has had mixed results. KDE seems to always have problems when you try to upgrade it . One system I tried this on in the past ( I think it was Mandrake), I lost the whole desktop and could not get it back. A full re-install of Mandrake was in order.
Upgrades vs full-installs need to be refined a bit more I think. This seems to be true with most operating systems. Upgrading Windows 98 to XP for example can also be a nightmare.
Steve Bergman wrote:
I've been thinking about you lately. By that, I mean that I have been wondering about Linux users on modem connections.
True. "keep your system updated" is a problem, if you really have a slow connection and no means to access a faster one for downloading updates.
I've been noting the absolutely huge volume (in MB) of patches for Linux distros which always seem to assume a broadband connection.
Especially if stuff like openoffice.org gets an update (X will get better with the modular build process, those packages are smaller).
Suse, I believe, does binary deltas so you don't have to download the whole package to fix a one liner.
This topic comes up often enough on fedora-devel (and no conclusion seems to be reached, ever -- if someone who follows -devel a bit closer than I do, please step in and correct me) - and I don't see it done for Fedora. So I also don't see it done for RHEL.
SuSE has another interesting feature called "patch rpms", which only contain the patches to the package on the system. This also hasn't been ported to the rpm RedHat uses (at least mine bails out with "unknown option" if I try to use "-P").
So I wouldn't expect to see it any time soon in RHEL or CentOS. Which is a problem for modem users, yes.
Ralph
On 7/25/06, Ralph Angenendt ra+centos@br-online.de wrote:
BRUCE STANLEY wrote:
Thanks for the Info. I may wait and skip 4.3 then.
"Skip" in which way? And why? 4.4 is just "Release 4, Update 4", while 4.3 is "Release 4, Update 3". You're not getting anything really new with 4.4, upgrading via yum from 4.3 to 4.4 is just as easy as upgrading to get security updates.
IMNSHO there's no need for waiting - you'll get CentOS 4 now with 4.3 and you will be getting CentOS 4 then with 4.4.
Hi Ralph,
I am new to CENTOS i have running RedHat from 6 to 9 until 2000 and back to linux one year ago with FC4 now i am using FC5 in my Desktop, and CENTOS 4.3 in my laptop. Ok, so as far as i understand as soon as CENTOS 4.4 is released in my next "yum update" since that date, i will have CENTOS 4.4 nothing else needed?
regards, Guillermo.
On Wed, 2006-07-26 at 18:27 -0400, Guillermo Garron wrote:
On 7/25/06, Ralph Angenendt ra+centos@br-online.de wrote:
BRUCE STANLEY wrote:
Thanks for the Info. I may wait and skip 4.3 then.
"Skip" in which way? And why? 4.4 is just "Release 4, Update 4", while 4.3 is "Release 4, Update 3". You're not getting anything really new with 4.4, upgrading via yum from 4.3 to 4.4 is just as easy as upgrading to get security updates.
IMNSHO there's no need for waiting - you'll get CentOS 4 now with 4.3 and you will be getting CentOS 4 then with 4.4.
Hi Ralph,
I am new to CENTOS i have running RedHat from 6 to 9 until 2000 and back to linux one year ago with FC4 now i am using FC5 in my Desktop, and CENTOS 4.3 in my laptop. Ok, so as far as i understand as soon as CENTOS 4.4 is released in my next "yum update" since that date, i will have CENTOS 4.4 nothing else needed?
That is correct ...
Within the same major version (Centos-2, Centos-3, Centos-4) you will always have the latest update set by just doing normal upgrades.
On 7/26/06, Johnny Hughes mailing-lists@hughesjr.com wrote:
That is correct ...
Within the same major version (Centos-2, Centos-3, Centos-4) you will always have the latest update set by just doing normal upgrades.
Is an Intel video chip driver for CentOS 4 going to work if installed on CentOS 4.3 ?
Every third party driver for CentOS 4 is going to work on the latest update?
Leonardo Vilela Pinheiro spake the following on 7/27/2006 12:36 PM:
On 7/26/06, *Johnny Hughes* <mailing-lists@hughesjr.com mailto:mailing-lists@hughesjr.com> wrote:
That is correct ... Within the same major version (Centos-2, Centos-3, Centos-4) you will always have the latest update set by just doing normal upgrades.Is an Intel video chip driver for CentOS 4 going to work if installed on CentOS 4.3 ?
Every third party driver for CentOS 4 is going to work on the latest update?
Drivers are usually compiled to the kernel, but that is not hard. Remember, CentOS is an Enterprise Distribution. It is meant for servers and stable workstations. That type of equipment isn't usually the latest and fastest hardware with ever-changing drivers. If you are using exotic or new hardware for an enterprise class of equipment, CentOS might not be for you. Maybe linux might not be for you, because most hardware gets Windows drivers first -- that is where the cash comes from. Windows users are used to spending $$$ for software. But that doesn't mean you can't use new hardware. I just bought some HP servers that ran CentOS 4 right from the box.
On 7/27/06, Scott Silva ssilva@sgvwater.com wrote: <cut>
Scott, thank you. Let me refine my question.
As an Enterprise operating system, CentOS provides software seamless compatibility (if this can be called compatibility) inside the same release (as Centos-4, or Centos-3, or Centos-2). Correct me if I´m wrong.
I know that if Intel (or whatever) releases a driver for CentOS 4.1, one may think that it must be a new driver, possibly unstable. But let´s suppose a vendor gives me a driver which is new but completely stable (just suppose, because this is just a conceptual question). Will this driver be compatible with every (forward and/or backward) "sub-versions" of CentOS 4 ? Should it work on Centos 4.0, 4.2 and 4.3 ? Maybe I´m just messing things. If Centos 4.x has the same kernel release, then every module should work on any Centos 4.x versions. Please make things more clear for me.
Leonardo Vilela Pinheiro wrote:
As an Enterprise operating system, CentOS provides software seamless compatibility (if this can be called compatibility) inside the same release (as Centos-4, or Centos-3, or Centos-2). Correct me if I´m wrong.
yes, this is correct. However, you might be more in 'sync' with reality by looking at this issue from a slightly different angle... the aim is that as packages move Release's through the lifecycle of a distro release ( eg. CentOS - 4 ) , the aim is not break either the ABI ( so your own apps function right ), the config file formats and expected behavior ( so your dont break config's ), and the filesystem layout ( so things continue to stay where they started off with ).
And this is maintained even when Packages move through their own release cycle ( eg. in C-4.4 mozilla has been replaced with the Seamonkey suite, but whatever you may have built against mozilla-nss and nspr will continue to work fine, with no need for a rebuild ).
I know that if Intel (or whatever) releases a driver for CentOS 4.1, one may think that it must be a new driver, possibly unstable. But let´s
it will be unstable, but thats not the only thing, I would trust the distro vendor to have done a lot more stability testing with various install options and environments than Intel ( or any hardware vendor ) would have. In most cases the hardware vendor is only testing on 1 architecture, and never on a continuous basis ( when was the last time intel had a driver for each kernel release from upstream ? ). However, its a mixed bag, both these people - h/w vendor and distro vendor - need to work together in the Linux scape, to make sure the user gets the best possible experience, support and functionality.( drifting OT ? )
suppose a vendor gives me a driver which is new but completely stable (just suppose, because this is just a conceptual question). Will this driver be compatible with every (forward and/or backward) "sub-versions" of CentOS 4 ?
CentOS-4 is the distro, I would presume that the driver is kernel defendant mostly. Kernel updates, while they do happen at release cycle update, also take place between these release cycles. And to answer your question, yes - the Kernel's abi does not change. If it broke, report it as a bug.
If the driver has userland dep's - its upto the hardware vendor to ensure that the driver works for all release cycle's. There is absolutely nothing that the distro vendor can do in such cases. Having said that, I've not yet seen anything break in this manner.
What you also might want to keep in mind is that drivers within the distro kernel are updated and new drivers added in. So its possible, what while you needed an external Vendor driver to make some h/w function properly with 2.6.9-5.EL kernel, the driver was then included in the distro supplied, 2.6.9-11.EL.
Once you look at things from a slightly larger perspective, the kernel/driver issue falls into place.
HTH
On Thu, Jul 27, 2006 at 01:54:12PM -0700, Scott Silva said:
Leonardo Vilela Pinheiro spake the following on 7/27/2006 12:36 PM:
On 7/26/06, *Johnny Hughes* mailto:mailing-lists@hughesjr.com> wrote:
Within the same major version (Centos-2, Centos-3, Centos-4) you will always have the latest update set by just doing normal upgrades.Is an Intel video chip driver for CentOS 4 going to work if installed on CentOS 4.3 ?
Every third party driver for CentOS 4 is going to work on the latest update?
Drivers are usually compiled to the kernel, but that is not hard. Remember, CentOS is an Enterprise Distribution. It is meant for servers and stable workstations. That type of equipment isn't usually the latest and fastest hardware with ever-changing drivers. If you are using exotic or new hardware for an enterprise class of equipment, CentOS might not be for you. Maybe linux might not be for you, because most hardware gets Windows drivers first -- that is where the cash comes from. Windows users are used to spending $$$ for software.
But that doesn't mean you can't use new hardware. I just bought some HP servers that ran CentOS 4 right from the box.
I've had mixed results.
Standard hardware (HP included) just seem to work out of the box with the latest releases. In some cases, vendor driver installation apps recompile for whatever kernel you are using. In others, the vendors supply a range of pre-compiled modules for all the versions of vendor kernels. EMC PowerPath drivers are one such beast (not really needed on Centos 4 due to the multi-pathing support in the OS, but IS needed on Centos-3.) There is frequently lag time for the vendors to catch up.
From: Guillermo Garron Sent: July 26, 2006 15:28
I am new to CENTOS i have running RedHat from 6 to 9 until 2000 and back to linux one year ago with FC4 now i am using FC5 in my Desktop, and CENTOS 4.3 in my laptop. Ok, so as far as i understand as soon as CENTOS 4.4 is released in my next "yum update" since that date, i will have CENTOS 4.4 nothing else needed?
This is a definite yes. I just completed a new install where the 4.3 install procedure kept bombing so I installed 4.2 and then it updated in-place to 4.3.
HTH
Regards, Hugh
On 7/26/06, Hugh E Cruickshank hugh@forsoft.com wrote:
From: Guillermo Garron Sent: July 26, 2006 15:28
I am new to CENTOS i have running RedHat from 6 to 9 until 2000 and back to linux one year ago with FC4 now i am using FC5 in my Desktop, and CENTOS 4.3 in my laptop. Ok, so as far as i understand as soon as CENTOS 4.4 is released in my next "yum update" since that date, i will have CENTOS 4.4 nothing else needed?
This is a definite yes. I just completed a new install where the 4.3 install procedure kept bombing so I installed 4.2 and then it updated in-place to 4.3.
HTH
Regards, Hugh
Thanks Johnny and Hugh Guillermo.
-- Hugh E Cruickshank, Forward Software, www.forward-software.com _______________________________________________ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
On Wed, 2006-07-26 at 15:35 -0700, Hugh E Cruickshank wrote:
From: Guillermo Garron Sent: July 26, 2006 15:28
<snip>
Ok, so as far as i understand as soon as CENTOS 4.4 is released in my next "yum update" since that date, i will have CENTOS 4.4 nothing else needed?
This is a definite yes. I just completed a new install where the 4.3 install procedure kept bombing so I installed 4.2 and then it updated in-place to 4.3.
Just curious: you have a 586? IIRC (someone confirm?), RH switched to 686 default and 4.3 you had to select the 586 kernel to install on586 and equivalent. If so, is that still the case?
HTH
Regards, Hugh
From: William L. Maltby Sent: July 27, 2006 04:11
On Wed, 2006-07-26 at 15:35 -0700, Hugh E Cruickshank wrote:
This is a definite yes. I just completed a new install where the 4.3 install procedure kept bombing so I installed 4.2 and then it updated in-place to 4.3.
Just curious: you have a 586? IIRC (someone confirm?), RH switched to 686 default and 4.3 you had to select the 586 kernel to install on586 and equivalent. If so, is that still the case?
Hi Bill:
I had not noticed that but I do not think that it was the source of my install problem. IIRC (it was about 4-6 weeks ago so no guarantee) the install "hung" during drive partitioning and/or filesystem prep. I know it was consistent as I tried it 3 times with the same results. At the time I thought it was a hardware problem but when I reverted to installing from the 4.2 CDs there was no problem. At the time I wrote it off to a possible bad CD.
Thanks for the heads up. I will keep that in mind the next time I do an install.
Regards, Hugh
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BRUCE STANLEY -
Deim Agoston -
Guillermo Garron -
Hugh E Cruickshank -
Jim Perrin -
Johnny Hughes -
Karanbir Singh -
Leonardo Vilela Pinheiro -
Matt Hyclak -
Phil Schaffner -
Ralph Angenendt -
Scott Silva -
Steve Bergman -
Walt Reed -
William L. Maltby