This thread (... Tomcat ...) emphasizes the essential conundrom of CentOS whose mission is to provide a community-based, well-maintained and freely distributable version of the stable enterprise software from the Well Known North American VENDOR (WKNAV). There is a essential gap betweenthe community (I want lots of current packages) and the WKNAV base (you get what I choose to provide). As CentOS becomes more popular and reaches more desktop and server users, the gap becomes more evident. And there is also the ever present clamor for software that is not freely distributable due to licensing considerations.
What I would recommend to assist those who love the CentOS stable base but want more than CentOS can (legally or otherwise) provide is to follow the documentation approach taken by Ubuntu. Ubuntu is based on the Well Known GNU/Linux Provider (KKGLP) but goes well beyond what the WKGLP chooses to privide. The community of Ubuntu has provided a single document with brief HOWTOs and website references for a lot of commonly needed services that are not provided by Ubuntu or the WKGLP. Granted this document (based on Ubuntu 5.04) but not really updated for Ubunto 5.10) is rapidly aging, but it is an example of what could be a very valuable service. Ubunto also provides a well-organized list of HOWTOs on its forums. This is the place for services like Tomcat which have non-redistributable components. It's perfectly legal to provide concise, up-to-date HOWTOs for software that cannot be redistributed.
Perhaps someone (or a group of someones) would like to take on organizing such a compendium of instructions on the CentOS Forum and keeping the compendium up to date? Think how many hours of googling and searching mail archives and copious RTFM could be saved! Instead of firing off a mail to this list, you could first look in a well known place on the Forum and avoid recasting a round object.
I'm not in a position to undertake such an endeavor. I keep current with CentOS, and I want to see CentOS thrive, but I have only a peripheral interest in CentOS, and that peripheral interst is a work connection. My employer, like many others, prefers to have a contractural arrangement (who can I kick around if it breaks even though it never breaks?) and to pay big bucks to the WKNAV for that privilege. CentOS is the closest thing I can get for my home system without paying the WKNAV, and this I will not do.
Some food for thought.
-- Collins Richey Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code ... If you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it. -Brian Kernighan
On Sat, 2005-10-29 at 12:12, Collins Richey wrote:
What I would recommend to assist those who love the CentOS stable base but want more than CentOS can (legally or otherwise) provide is to follow the documentation approach taken by Ubuntu.
What might make even more sense is to have scripted installs included for all of the stuff that is really a free download but must be pulled directly from the source site. The k12ltsp distro adds some of this with push-button icons to install the MS web fonts, java, flash, acrobat reader, realplayer, and their associated browser plugins, plus webmin. Some are completely scripted, some drop you into the vendors click through agreement for the install. The big advantage is that the installers can be updated along with the rest of the distro so aside from not having to wade through a dozen one-off HOWTO's you don't have to deal with those instructions being out of date and leading you astray, or accidentally working with a different distro's HOWTO that won't work.
On 10/29/05, Les Mikesell lesmikesell@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, 2005-10-29 at 12:12, Collins Richey wrote:
What I would recommend to assist those who love the CentOS stable base but want more than CentOS can (legally or otherwise) provide is to follow the documentation approach taken by Ubuntu.
What might make even more sense is to have scripted installs included for all of the stuff that is really a free download but must be pulled directly from the source site.
Excellent suggestion.
-- Collins Richey Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code ... If you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it. -Brian Kernighan
Collins Richey wrote:
<snip>
Perhaps someone (or a group of someones) would like to take on organizing such a compendium of instructions on the CentOS Forum and keeping the compendium up to date? Think how many hours of googling and searching mail archives and copious RTFM could be saved! Instead of firing off a mail to this list, you could first look in a well known place on the Forum and avoid recasting a round object.
<more snips>
I for one, might be able to help out in that respect.. while I am by no means a programmer, I do type quite well, and would not mind helping out if such an undertaking occurs... Being retired, I could devote some time to it without problem..
-----Original Message----- Collins Richey wrote:
<snip>
Perhaps someone (or a group of someones) would like to take on organizing such a compendium of instructions on the CentOS Forum and keeping the compendium up to date? Think how many hours of googling and searching mail archives and copious RTFM could be saved! Instead of firing off a mail to this list, you could first look in a well known place on the Forum and avoid recasting a round object.
<more snips>
I for one, might be able to help out in that respect.. while I am by no means a programmer, I do type quite well, and would not mind helping out if such an undertaking occurs... Being retired, I could devote some time to it without problem..
On 10/29/05, Manny mt-listserves@cox.net wrote:
-----Original Message----- Collins Richey wrote:
<snip>
Perhaps someone (or a group of someones) would like to take on organizing such a compendium of instructions on the CentOS Forum and keeping the compendium up to date? Think how many hours of googling and searching mail archives and copious RTFM could be saved! Instead of firing off a mail to this list, you could first look in a well known place on the Forum and avoid recasting a round object.
<more snips>
I for one, might be able to help out in that respect.. while I am by no means a programmer, I do type quite well, and would not mind helping out if such an undertaking occurs... Being retired, I could devote some time to it without problem.. -- Snowman
Perhaps someone can set up a wiki for this, and all can contribute to it.
You can view the sort of thing I was referring to here.
-- Collins Richey Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code ... If you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it. -Brian Kernighan
Collins Richey wrote:
On 10/29/05, Manny mt-listserves@cox.net wrote:
-----Original Message----- Collins Richey wrote:
<snip>
Perhaps someone (or a group of someones) would like to take on organizing such a compendium of instructions on the CentOS Forum and keeping the compendium up to date? Think how many hours of googling and searching mail archives and copious RTFM could be saved! Instead of firing off a mail to this list, you could first look in a well known place on the Forum and avoid recasting a round object.
<more snips>
Perhaps someone can set up a wiki for this, and all can contribute to it.
You can view the sort of thing I was referring to here.
That looks very nice, and appears to be written for a person with at least *some* experience with Unix/Linux. I didn't have to go very far to see some things that I had questions about myself. I'm certainly game to help out... It would be a great learning experience for anyone who is new to CentOS or Linux in general.
Collins Richey wrote on Sat, 29 Oct 2005 11:12:51 -0600:
What I would recommend to assist those who love the CentOS stable base but want more than CentOS can (legally or otherwise) provide is to follow the documentation approach taken by Ubuntu.
Why shouldn't this target audience not just install Ubuntu?
And, frankly, if I go thru that list at ubuntuguide, most of the questions/answers are already answered in the CentOS FAQs ("How do I add repos?"), are application specific ("How do I ssh into a server"), are generic questions (like "How do I add xyz to Gnome") that are answered in other external FAQs or so simple that they don't deserve an FAQ.
Nevertheless, putting up a wiki is a good proposal even if only one person would add to it ;-) Anyone who wishes, can then share his experience with "How I installed xyz on CentOS" and save others some time.
Kai
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On Sun, Oct 30, 2005 at 04:31:25PM +0100, Kai Schaetzl wrote:
Nevertheless, putting up a wiki is a good proposal even if only one person would add to it ;-) Anyone who wishes, can then share his experience with "How I installed xyz on CentOS" and save others some time.
Actually, there is some information I could provide to it: 1) How to fix the keyboard map on X.org to be backware compatible with XFree86 one regarding the dead-cedil. 2) How to make slmodemd build on CentOS 4
[]s
- -- Rodrigo Barbosa rodrigob@suespammers.org "Quid quid Latine dictum sit, altum viditur" "Be excellent to each other ..." - Bill & Ted (Wyld Stallyns)