OK guys and gals ... can we please stop all the fighting?
When technical questions are asked, they should be answered. I lot of people on this list have something that a lot of newbies need ... experience.
So answering a question with "RTFM" or "JFGI" is not going to impart any of your experience ... which is one of the things they need and want.
Also ... if someone attacks you, you should not respond in kind, but should try not to flame or bait people.
It take more than one person to get these things going, and just a little restraint on both people's parts could prevent problems.
Can everyone who is a member of this list please read this document:
http://www.gweep.ca/~edmonds/usenet/ml-etiquette.html
Especially the section "I've been insulted! How should I respond?"
Please, please, please ... can we be civil and not attack people personally.
ALSO
There is a forum at http://www.centos.org/modules/newbb/
It would be very good if people would post questions and answers there as well.
Thanks, Johnny Hughes
On Thu, 15 Sep 2005, Johnny Hughes wrote:
Also ... if someone attacks you, you should not respond in kind, but should try not to flame or bait people.
I agree and apologize for my part in it. But I have to say this. This list is completely useless if you're going to be attacked constantly by the likes of Bryan without anyone else stepping in and putting a stop to it. I apologize and I admit it was wrong to continue an OT post here. But I was just trying to defend myself.
It take more than one person to get these things going, and just a little restraint on both people's parts could prevent problems.
Agreed.
Can everyone who is a member of this list please read this document:
http://www.gweep.ca/~edmonds/usenet/ml-etiquette.html
Especially the section "I've been insulted! How should I respond?"
I will, definitely.
Thank you and once again I'm sorry to everyone else.
Preston
On Thu, 2005-09-15 at 16:49 -0500, Johnny Hughes wrote:
So answering a question with "RTFM" or "JFGI" is not going to impart any of your experience ... which is one of the things they need and want.
Ummm ... as someone who takes the time to explain things on a regular basis, I _rarely_ do that. In fact, I took way too much time in a prior thread! I'm probably the most detailed and verbose person here, even if I don't always explain things in ways that everyone can understand. But I do try and give answers (and not to "sport my knowledge").
Now I'm sorry I even said RTFM on the Mencoder thread. How to control bitrate is rather subjective in Mencoder, and only the man page is complete. That was my point. Yes, Preston did "piss me off" in an earlier thread, and from what I saw, he had not even bothered to hit the man page (and it was more like a rant). My response wasn't ideal.
But I still find it a bit sad that you used the terms "RTFM" and "JFGI" because, given the recent words (although I never used or even suggested JFGI), I want to take it personally. Sorry, but it really looks unicast. I'm working on the hack for the YUM repository for my own, internal needs, and will still pass it along.
But you are the project lead, and I can't complain.
Please block my e-mail address from the list as I requested prior. That way I can't even comment anymore. This will be my last post to the list for awhile. Apparently some of the same core of "select people" have gone from being tactful to outright blame and lack of ownership on their part.
On Thu, 2005-09-15 at 17:28 -0500, Bryan J. Smith wrote:
On Thu, 2005-09-15 at 16:49 -0500, Johnny Hughes wrote:
So answering a question with "RTFM" or "JFGI" is not going to impart any of your experience ... which is one of the things they need and want.
Ummm ... as someone who takes the time to explain things on a regular basis, I _rarely_ do that. In fact, I took way too much time in a prior thread! I'm probably the most detailed and verbose person here, even if I don't always explain things in ways that everyone can understand. But I do try and give answers (and not to "sport my knowledge").
Bryan ... that was not a comment meant only for you (actually, you do not normally do that at all). It was directed at everyone ... as was all my comments.
EVERYONE ... Before I starting doing CentOS-4, I was a moderator on http://LinuxHelp.net/ and I have http://www.hughesjr.com/ because I want to help people use linux. I really don't like RTFM or JFGI ... if you look at any of my posts here, on IRC, on the 2 links above, or in the CentOS forums, you will see that I TRY to practice what I preach. If I am going to say read something, I normally point to it (in a link) and explain something about it too.
I am NOT placing blame anywhere ... we all make mistakes, we all sometimes comment and wish we can take it back.
Now I'm sorry I even said RTFM on the Mencoder thread. How to control bitrate is rather subjective in Mencoder, and only the man page is complete. That was my point. Yes, Preston did "piss me off" in an earlier thread, and from what I saw, he had not even bothered to hit the man page (and it was more like a rant). My response wasn't ideal.
But I still find it a bit sad that you used the terms "RTFM" and "JFGI" because, given the recent words (although I never used or even suggested JFGI), I want to take it personally.
I am talking to everyone ... not just one or two people. CentOS is good, I want this mailing list to be good as well. We need people to comment nicely and help people. Everyone was a newbie once.
Sorry, but it really looks unicast. I'm working on the hack for the YUM repository for my own, internal needs, and will still pass it along.
But you are the project lead, and I can't complain.
I don't expect everyone to do what I say and not complain ... heck, I can't even get my wife or daughter to do that :)
Please block my e-mail address from the list as I requested prior. That way I can't even comment anymore. This will be my last post to the list for awhile. Apparently some of the same core of "select people" have gone from being tactful to outright blame and lack of ownership on their part.
OK ... that is done. ----------------------
I just want people to think about one thing ...
What is the purpose of posting a RTFM or JFGI?
If you (and everyone else) doesn't post anything to that person ... and if they really need to get the item done, they will do one of those things to complete the item, won't they?
Now ... if we post a link, and say we found it by googling on terms xxxx and yyyy ... then they get help and learn what we googled on to find it. That is nice, it helps, AND it teaches.
On Thu, 2005-09-15 at 17:57 -0500, Johnny Hughes wrote:
I just want people to think about one thing ...
What is the purpose of posting a RTFM or JFGI?
If you (and everyone else) doesn't post anything to that person ... and if they really need to get the item done, they will do one of those things to complete the item, won't they?
Now ... if we post a link, and say we found it by googling on terms xxxx and yyyy ... then they get help and learn what we googled on to find it. That is nice, it helps, AND it teaches.
I agree. I know how to read man pages. I've been using Linux for 8 years now. 5 as my main OS. But sometimes issues come up where you just wonder (as I did) if someone may have run across this issue themselves and knows the answer off of the top of their heads. And if they do, then there answer is here for others to read in the future. I think that kind of reciprocation is helpful and positive.
I apologize once again for letting myself get dragged into the scrum. There's no excuse for that. I have hard time with letting it go when people take me to task for something totally tangential to the question I asked. But that's no excuse. I should have just hit the delete key. That's the best way to moderate a list.
Once again, I apologize for my part. I hope everyone can forgive me. I love CentOS and the CentOS community. I wasn't trying to "start something". I was simply trying to figure out how to break up a recorded stream of my local NPR station so I could listen to it on my new PDA.
Preston
On Thu, 2005-09-15 at 17:57 -0500, Johnny Hughes wrote:
I just want people to think about one thing ...
What is the purpose of posting a RTFM or JFGI?
I've been hanging around on come form of online world fro a little while now and know most of the common (and some obscure) acronyms. But I've never seen nor heard JFGI. So what does it mean?
Joe Klemmer wrote:
On Thu, 2005-09-15 at 17:57 -0500, Johnny Hughes wrote:
I just want people to think about one thing ...
What is the purpose of posting a RTFM or JFGI?
I've been hanging around on come form of online world fro a little while now and know most of the common (and some obscure) acronyms. But I've never seen nor heard JFGI. So what does it mean?
http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?Acronym=JFGI&Find=find&str...
That one's kinda like an Aggie Bootstrap, huh?
http://justfuckinggoogleit.com/
I just want people to think about one thing ... What is the purpose of posting a RTFM or JFGI?
I've been hanging around on come form of online world fro a little while now and know most of the common (and some obscure) acronyms. But I've never seen nor heard JFGI. So what does it mean?
What's wrong with Yahoo-ing it?! I'm rather furious that Firefox defaults to Google search on all the distros. Why is Google supposed to mean "more freedom" than Yahoo?! I'm always Yahoo-ing, and I'm pretty sure my relative lack of knowledge in some areas is not related to that :D
--------------------------------- Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail
On Mon, 2006-09-18 at 03:13 -0400, Radu-Cristian FOTESCU wrote:
What's wrong with Yahoo-ing it?! I'm rather furious that Firefox defaults to Google search on all the distros. Why is Google supposed to mean "more freedom" than Yahoo?! I'm always Yahoo-ing, and I'm pretty sure my relative lack of knowledge in some areas is not related to that :D
It is about money and ads.
Google has a spread firefox campaign ... firefox includes the google search engine as default.
Nothing wrong with that ... especially since firefox isn't trying to lock out other search engines, etc. Nor is google blocking results that lead to other broswers (that tactic you could expect from another major player in the IT world :)
Thanks, Johnny Hughes
http://www.gweep.ca/~edmonds/usenet/ml-etiquette.html
Especially the section "I've been insulted! How should I respond?"
There seemed to be a section in there targeted at me, but it doesn't seem to be available anymore. Is there a mirror of "How to write like a Wanker?"
Always one to throw some gasoline on the fire :-D
Jim Perrin wrote:
http://www.gweep.ca/~edmonds/usenet/ml-etiquette.html
Especially the section "I've been insulted! How should I respond?"
There seemed to be a section in there targeted at me, but it doesn't seem to be available anymore. Is there a mirror of "How to write like a Wanker?"
They condensed it to a single word - "Jerkily". 8-)
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Bryan J. Smith -
Ed Clarke -
Jim Perrin -
Joe Klemmer -
Johnny Hughes -
Johnny Hughes -
Maciej Ĺťenczykowski -
Preston Crawford -
Radu-Cristian FOTESCU -
Robert