I have a silly question... why not install from source?
http://www.php.net/downloads.php
PHP 4.4.4
----- Original Message ---- From: Michael Kress kress@hal.saar.de To: CentOS mailing list centos@centos.org Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 2:48:37 PM Subject: [CentOS] php version 4.4 / ez publish
Hi list, is there any repository on this world where I can stick to and update to a stable and hopefully secure and hopefully long supported version 4.4 of php? EZ publish's software requirements as of the current version tells me that it requires php 4.4 which doesn't meet what Centos 4.4 or its upstream provides. For a certain project I want to use ez publish. Is there any solution you see for that? Install a seperate server for that? (That's the least I wanna do). Or _does_ it work with php 4.3 under centos 4.4? Any experience? TIA Regards, Michael
On Tue, 2007-02-13 at 23:17 -0800, gillbates wrote:
I have a silly question... why not install from source?
http://www.php.net/downloads.php
PHP 4.4.4
Installing items from source is bad on an RPM based system ... it requires that you personally track and update that install forever. If one is willing and able to do that, great. If not, not so great.
Also, in this case, there are MANY RPMS that require php to be installed and items installed from source do not put an entry into the RPM database to inform RPM that you have php (in this case) installed. Therefore any other package that requires the php RPM will not install, as the RPM database does not show it installed.
If these people want their product used by people in the enterprise, it surely should work on RHEL ... RHEL + Fedora + CentOS = ~55% of all Linux internet servers on the Dec 2005 netcraft survey (the last one they published showing linux versions).
The best bet is to fix the app that requires php 4.4 or to find/build an RPM for php-4.4.
That should be possible ... though maybe also hard.
----- Original Message ---- From: Michael Kress kress@hal.saar.de To: CentOS mailing list centos@centos.org Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 2:48:37 PM Subject: [CentOS] php version 4.4 / ez publish
Hi list, is there any repository on this world where I can stick to and update to a stable and hopefully secure and hopefully long supported version 4.4 of php? EZ publish's software requirements as of the current version tells me that it requires php 4.4 which doesn't meet what Centos 4.4 or its upstream provides. For a certain project I want to use ez publish. Is there any solution you see for that? Install a seperate server for that? (That's the least I wanna do). Or _does_ it work with php 4.3 under centos 4.4? Any experience? TIA Regards, Michael
-- Michael Kress, kress@hal.saar.de http://www.michael-kress.de / http://kress.net P E N G U I N S A R E C O O L
CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Johnny Hughes wrote:
On Tue, 2007-02-13 at 23:17 -0800, gillbates wrote:
I have a silly question... why not install from source?
http://www.php.net/downloads.php
PHP 4.4.4
of course I thought about that but ...
Installing items from source is bad on an RPM based system ... it
because I don't want to spend 10 minutes in upgrading my php, I'd rather do it in 2 minutes with yum and I'm sure that the consistency of the rest of the system is kind of guaranteed.
If these people want their product used by people in the enterprise, it surely should work on RHEL ... RHEL + Fedora + CentOS = ~55% of all Linux internet servers on the Dec 2005 netcraft survey (the last one they published showing linux versions).
full ack - it's a bit conceited and arrogant to say that my software requires 4.4 knowing that with that one major part of the world having an Enterprise OS installed may not use my product.
The best bet is to fix the app that requires php 4.4 or to find/build an RPM for php-4.4.
That's a bit Redhat's fault.
Anyways, I tried ez publish 3.9 on centos 4.4 with the current php (php-4.3.9-3.22) and it works though. AFAI can judge it, it works flawlessly. Has anybody got similar experience with that? Regards, Michael
Hi,
Johnny Hughes wrote:
The best bet is to fix the app that requires php 4.4 or to find/build an RPM for php-4.4.
That should be possible ... though maybe also hard.
JFYI, I tried that approach ... http://ez.no/community/forum/install_configuration/php_4_3_9_ez_publish_3_9_... I went to the centos guys and had a good cry on their shoulder about ez. I went to the ez guys and told them, but they don't seem to care about. :-( I'll possibly get another cms now. Regards, Michael
RE:
Installing items from source is bad on an RPM based system
That's simply not correct. I've got a farm of 'rpm' based RedHat and RedHat derivatives. Big deal. If I set up a cluster of web servers that need an odd version of PHP (which I do);
1. Apache, PHP and MySQL will not be installed willy-nilly - each base machine will be the bare minimum install. 2. Each install will be very site specific regarding the flags you use to install them - for example apache2: "'--prefix=/usr/local/apache2' '--with-mpm=prefork' '--enable-ssl' '--enable-setenvif' '--enable-proxy' '--enable-proxy-http' '--disable-charset-lite' '--disable-include' '--disable-env' '--disable-status' '--disable-autoindex' '--disable-asis' '--disable-cgi' '--disable-negotiation' '--disable-imap' '--disable-actions' '--disable-userdir' '--disable-alias' '--disable-so'"
You don't get a secure system with that sort of granularity by blindly using RPM's from some repo. For our systems that need PHP 4.4 - we install to /usr/local (where it can happily co-exist with an RPM version of PHP 5) precisely because you can compile it against specific versions of Apache and MySQL. When you want to apply security updates - you subscribe to the security list for a particular product and review the patches as they come out - if you need one then re-compile and you're away.
We rely on repos primarily to upgrade the security patches for all packages on a given machine. In any case, for the non-rpm ones we can do that on a per-case basis.
The small amount of time lost on manually upgrading (which to be fair are far and few between) is nothing to the sort of control available to you when you compile the package from scratch. RPM and gcc aren't' mutually exclusive.
-Peter
On 14/02/07, Johnny Hughes mailing-lists@hughesjr.com wrote:
On Tue, 2007-02-13 at 23:17 -0800, gillbates wrote:
I have a silly question... why not install from source?
http://www.php.net/downloads.php
PHP 4.4.4
Installing items from source is bad on an RPM based system ... it requires that you personally track and update that install forever. If one is willing and able to do that, great. If not, not so great.
Also, in this case, there are MANY RPMS that require php to be installed and items installed from source do not put an entry into the RPM database to inform RPM that you have php (in this case) installed. Therefore any other package that requires the php RPM will not install, as the RPM database does not show it installed.
If these people want their product used by people in the enterprise, it surely should work on RHEL ... RHEL + Fedora + CentOS = ~55% of all Linux internet servers on the Dec 2005 netcraft survey (the last one they published showing linux versions).
The best bet is to fix the app that requires php 4.4 or to find/build an RPM for php-4.4.
That should be possible ... though maybe also hard.
----- Original Message ---- From: Michael Kress kress@hal.saar.de To: CentOS mailing list centos@centos.org Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 2:48:37 PM Subject: [CentOS] php version 4.4 / ez publish
Hi list, is there any repository on this world where I can stick to and update to a stable and hopefully secure and hopefully long supported version 4.4 of php? EZ publish's software requirements as of the current version tells me that it requires php 4.4 which doesn't meet what Centos 4.4 or its upstream provides. For a certain project I want to use ez publish. Is there any solution you see for that? Install a seperate server for that? (That's the least I wanna do). Or _does_ it work with php 4.3 under centos 4.4? Any experience? TIA Regards, Michael
-- Michael Kress, kress@hal.saar.de http://www.michael-kress.de / http://kress.net P E N G U I N S A R E C O O L
CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
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On 2/20/07, Peter Farrell peter.d.farrell@gmail.com wrote:
RE:
Installing items from source is bad on an RPM based system
That's simply not correct.
Oh yes it is. Just hang out in the irc support channel for a while to get your feet wet.
I've got a farm of 'rpm' based RedHat and RedHat derivatives. Big deal. If I set up a cluster of web servers that need an odd version of PHP (which I do);
Right. You're likely the exception to the general rule because you track security updates, and you understand how source built software and rpms relate. For 90% of the folks asking for help, this is not the case. They will install from source, then try to install an rpm which depends on what they just installed, and will wonder why it complains that their source built software is not installed.
RPM is by no means perfect and I won't defend it as such, but for newer users asking for help, preaching the gospel according to RHEL/CentOS is a good way to get them ingrained in proper administration habits and help them learn. Once they've learned enough then they can move out as you and many others have done.
As an example ->
- Apache, PHP and MySQL will not be installed willy-nilly - each
base machine will be the bare minimum install.
You're speaking of the application stack here, which is fine. However in #centos just yesterday we had a gentleman who was attempting to replace the installed openssl with a newer source built version. This would cause an endless number of update and application issues were he even remotely successful in doing so.
There are several contributing factors to this including some inflexibility in rpm, a lack of user understanding of RH's backporting policy, and a lack of vendor understanding of same.
You are correct that it is very possible to have source builds and rpms co-exist peacefully, however from a general support aspect, the blanket statement "Installing items from source is bad on an RPM based system" is valid. There are exceptions to every rule.
Fine. Fair point regarding the generality of simplicity and systems management for newer users.
I'll leave it at that.
However - re: the guy installing openssl and having issues.
My point still stands: I had a few RH9 machines still chugging away - I needed to install Apache 1.3 w/ ssl (which means you have to compile everything from the openssl src folder and point to your apache src, etc.) The machine had the rpm version of openssl already installed and I couldn't remove it as it would break too many deps.
I could still compile Apache 1.3 w/ SSL in /usr/local and not have any impact whatsoever on the existing installation. I'm only linking against the libs in my new openssl dir. At the end of the day - it's personal preference regarding housekeeping - but lets not forget that it's not rocket science - it's a little folder of library files, they can live anywhere - as long as you know where they are in order to link against them.
Finally - if your #centos IRC guy wanted to update his version of openssl - 1. the lastest release was Sept. 28 2006 - so I've got to believe that the current repo's would have this new version. (a la 'yum update' or 'yum update openssl') 2. If they didn't why couldn't he 'freshen' or 'update' the current rpm with the latest rpm?
If he doesn't know the difference - sadly he really has no business whatsoever attempting to manage someones security implementation - much less the machine it's running on. (newbie or not.)
- All the best - Peter
On 20/02/07, Jim Perrin jperrin@gmail.com wrote:
On 2/20/07, Peter Farrell peter.d.farrell@gmail.com wrote:
RE:
Installing items from source is bad on an RPM based system
That's simply not correct.
Oh yes it is. Just hang out in the irc support channel for a while to get your feet wet.
I've got a farm of 'rpm' based RedHat and RedHat derivatives. Big deal. If I set up a cluster of web servers that need an odd version of PHP
(which
I do);
Right. You're likely the exception to the general rule because you track security updates, and you understand how source built software and rpms relate. For 90% of the folks asking for help, this is not the case. They will install from source, then try to install an rpm which depends on what they just installed, and will wonder why it complains that their source built software is not installed.
RPM is by no means perfect and I won't defend it as such, but for newer users asking for help, preaching the gospel according to RHEL/CentOS is a good way to get them ingrained in proper administration habits and help them learn. Once they've learned enough then they can move out as you and many others have done.
As an example ->
- Apache, PHP and MySQL will not be installed willy-nilly - each
base machine will be the bare minimum install.
You're speaking of the application stack here, which is fine. However in #centos just yesterday we had a gentleman who was attempting to replace the installed openssl with a newer source built version. This would cause an endless number of update and application issues were he even remotely successful in doing so.
There are several contributing factors to this including some inflexibility in rpm, a lack of user understanding of RH's backporting policy, and a lack of vendor understanding of same.
You are correct that it is very possible to have source builds and rpms co-exist peacefully, however from a general support aspect, the blanket statement "Installing items from source is bad on an RPM based system" is valid. There are exceptions to every rule.
-- During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. George Orwell _______________________________________________ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
On Tue, 2007-02-20 at 13:47 +0000, Peter Farrell wrote:
Fine. Fair point regarding the generality of simplicity and systems management for newer users.
I'll leave it at that.
Well ... not trying to be a butt head ... BUT
when you build your distro ... you can tell people that installing items from source is a good idea.
Since this is our distro ... we will tell people that is "Absolutely Evil" and suggest to people who want to do it that they should shift to Gentoo if they like building stuff :D
OK ... maybe not, and there might be a reason to build your own stuff ... BUT, it mostly causes problems and should not be done unless there is not another alternative. At least that is what the official word around here is.
<snip>
-
gillbates -
Jim Perrin -
Johnny Hughes -
Johnny Hughes -
Michael Kress -
Peter Farrell