We are finally going to replace our VHS-C Camcorder, with a Digital Camcorder, tomorrow. Looking for suggestions, for Digital Video Editor to use on CentOS 5.2. Preferably, something in the CentOS or RPMForge repositories and easy to use. TIA!
On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 2:26 PM, Lanny Marcus lmmailinglists@gmail.com wrote:
We are finally going to replace our VHS-C Camcorder, with a Digital Camcorder, tomorrow. Looking for suggestions, for Digital Video Editor to use on CentOS 5.2. Preferably, something in the CentOS or RPMForge repositories and easy to use. TIA!
Hi Lanny,
Cinelerra. It is very powerful, and Dag kindly added to his repo quite sometime ago.
The only "problem" is that, because it is so powerful and feature rich, learning curve is very steep. I have yet to learn it myself but I already know its capabilities through my best Linux friend who is an expert in video editing.
Akemi
On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 2:36 PM, Akemi Yagi amyagi@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 2:26 PM, Lanny Marcus lmmailinglists@gmail.com wrote:
We are finally going to replace our VHS-C Camcorder, with a Digital Camcorder, tomorrow. Looking for suggestions, for Digital Video Editor to use on CentOS 5.2. Preferably, something in the CentOS or RPMForge repositories and easy to use. TIA!
Hi Lanny,
Cinelerra. It is very powerful, and Dag kindly added to his repo quite sometime ago.
The only "problem" is that, because it is so powerful and feature rich, learning curve is very steep. I have yet to learn it myself but I already know its capabilities through my best Linux friend who is an expert in video editing.
Hi again,
If your camcorder connects to the computer through firewire, there is one caution: kino may not be able to see the firewire port under CentOS. More details are in this forum thread:
http://www.centos.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&topic_id...
In there, I (toracat) admit that my workstation that handles our camcorder is still running FC6. This was for other reasons, but now that I know kino does not work on CentOS (with its firewire support), I cannot make the switch.
Just wanted to give you some heads up.
Akemi
On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 4:36 PM, Akemi Yagi amyagi@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 2:26 PM, Lanny Marcus lmmailinglists@gmail.com wrote:
We are finally going to replace our VHS-C Camcorder, with a Digital Camcorder, tomorrow. Looking for suggestions, for Digital Video Editor to use on CentOS 5.2. Preferably, something in the CentOS or RPMForge repositories and easy to use. TIA!
Cinelerra. It is very powerful, and Dag kindly added to his repo quite sometime ago.
The only "problem" is that, because it is so powerful and feature rich, learning curve is very steep. I have yet to learn it myself but I already know its capabilities through my best Linux friend who is an expert in video editing.
Akemi: Thank you for the recommendation and for the caveats! Sounds like "The GIMP" for the power and the long learning curve. We don't have Firewire so that's not a problem. I looked at their web site for a minute and some of the documentation is available in Spanish, which is a big plus for my wife. She can become our expert, if we go with Cinelerra. I'm going to try to get it with Yum now. Lanny
Lanny Marcus wrote:
.. We don't have Firewire so that's not a problem. ...
almost all MiniDV camcorders capture video via IEEE1394 ("Firewire"), its the standard for the DV format. The ones that have USB, that port is generally used only for still photo.
DVD camcorders and hard disk camcorders use higher levels of compression that aren't as suitable for editing as DV, however, they are less likely to use IEEE1394.
Myself, I use Sony Vegas ($$$) on a Windows XP platform for video capture and editing, this works extremely well and produces very high quality results.
.
On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 5:23 PM, John R Pierce pierce@hogranch.com wrote:
Lanny Marcus wrote:
.. We don't have Firewire so that's not a problem. ...
almost all MiniDV camcorders capture video via IEEE1394 ("Firewire"), its the standard for the DV format. The ones that have USB, that port is generally used only for still photo.
DVD camcorders and hard disk camcorders use higher levels of compression that aren't as suitable for editing as DV, however, they are less likely to use IEEE1394.
Myself, I use Sony Vegas ($$$) on a Windows XP platform for video capture and editing, this works extremely well and produces very high quality results.
John: Thank you. I'm not sure how we will capture the video from the camera. If it's via Firewire, I will need to buy something to install in one of our PCs.... Last resort is doing it on Windows XP, with whatever comes with that or is available free.. I'm assuming the camcorder is MiniDV. My wife is going to get it tomorrow. Lanny
Am 06.08.2008 um 01:00 schrieb Lanny Marcus:
John: Thank you. I'm not sure how we will capture the video from the camera. If it's via Firewire, I will need to buy something to install in one of our PCs.... Last resort is doing it on Windows XP, with whatever comes with that or is available free..
Only Macs come with a good, free DV-Editor (iMovie), IIRC. Some people claim the Mac is worth iMovie alone - but I don't know, I only do digital still-pictures.
With the Mac, there would at least be a Unix underneath. ;-)
One thing: my co-worker has a PC he edits videos with where he disables antivirus stuff during the edit. He said he really only got on the internet once in that state (antivirus disabled) - but that was enough to infect the PC so he had to spend hours to clean it up. If you can do it with kinodv - good for you. Otherwhise, consider getting a Mac, if your time is worth something....
Rainer
Rainer Duffner wrote:
Am 06.08.2008 um 01:00 schrieb Lanny Marcus:
John: Thank you. I'm not sure how we will capture the video from the camera. If it's via Firewire, I will need to buy something to install in one of our PCs.... Last resort is doing it on Windows XP, with whatever comes with that or is
available free..
Only Macs come with a good, free DV-Editor (iMovie), IIRC. Some people claim the Mac is worth iMovie alone - but I don't know, I only do digital still-pictures.
With the Mac, there would at least be a Unix underneath. ;-)
One thing: my co-worker has a PC he edits videos with where he disables antivirus stuff during the edit. He said he really only got on the internet once in that state (antivirus disabled) - but that was enough to infect the PC so he had to spend hours to clean it up. If you can do it with kinodv - good for you. Otherwhise, consider getting a Mac, if your time is worth something....
I have to second the Mac suggestion. Having just bought a Mac coming from a PC/Windows desktop I had no idea how good an environment it was for media processing, but I have to say it is the best for video/still image editing and if iMovie or iPhoto don't cut it then Aperature or Final Cut would get the job done for a reasonable price (compared to say Photoshop and Premiere).
-Ross
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On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 5:23 PM, John R Pierce pierce@hogranch.com wrote: <snip>
almost all MiniDV camcorders capture video via IEEE1394 ("Firewire"), its the standard for the DV format. The ones that have USB, that port is generally used only for still photo.
DVD camcorders and hard disk camcorders use higher levels of compression that aren't as suitable for editing as DV, however, they are less likely to use IEEE1394.
When I began this thread, on 05 August, I thought we were going to get the camcorder the next day. We finally got it yesterday! Very long delay, for the company where my stepson works, to approve it for sale, at a deep discount....... It is DVD and from a review I read about the camcorder, the quality, with DVD, isn't as good, but, they are very easy to use. No need to buy a PCI Firewire card. :-) All of the replies I got to this thread are greatly appreciated! When I began the thread, I knew nothing about digital camcorders (our old one is VHS-C).
Akemi Yagi wrote:
On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 2:26 PM, Lanny Marcus lmmailinglists@gmail.com wrote:
We are finally going to replace our VHS-C Camcorder, with a Digital Camcorder, tomorrow. Looking for suggestions, for Digital Video Editor to use on CentOS 5.2. Preferably, something in the CentOS or RPMForge repositories and easy to use. TIA!
Cinelerra. It is very powerful, and Dag kindly added to his repo quite sometime ago.
It is powerful, but if the digital camera is a FireWire-based standard-def DV camera, the right choice is Kino:
It is an editor specially made for standard-def DV material, it can interface directly with the camera, it can process DV material natively (lossless edit and stuff like that), can do projects, has filters and effects, can export in a variety of formats, etc. You can find RPMs on dag.wieers.com and in some other places; Fedora should have the src.rpm as well.
Cinelerra is more of a "generic case" editor. Plus, it's quite buggy. ;-)
If the camera is high-def, then I suggest using a Windows-based application, especially if it's a newer AVCHD camera. Linux is not quite there yet in high-def; maybe something like Cinelerra or Kdenlive will work with older MPEG2 high-def systems, but you're pretty much on your own.
In fact, for pretty much anything except standard-def DV, Windows is by far the better option. Maybe either Cinelerra or Kdenlive will pick up speed and change the situation some time in the future.
On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 5:47 PM, Florin Andrei florin@andrei.myip.org wrote:
Akemi Yagi wrote:
On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 2:26 PM, Lanny Marcus lmmailinglists@gmail.com wrote:
We are finally going to replace our VHS-C Camcorder, with a Digital Camcorder, tomorrow. Looking for suggestions, for Digital Video Editor to use on CentOS 5.2. Preferably, something in the CentOS or RPMForge repositories and easy to use. TIA!
Cinelerra. It is very powerful, and Dag kindly added to his repo quite sometime ago.
It is powerful, but if the digital camera is a FireWire-based standard-def DV camera, the right choice is Kino:
I'm assuming it is a MiniDV format camcorder. I installed cinelerra and will try to install Kino now.
It is an editor specially made for standard-def DV material, it can interface directly with the camera, it can process DV material natively (lossless edit and stuff like that), can do projects, has filters and effects, can export in a variety of formats, etc. You can find RPMs on dag.wieers.com and in some other places; Fedora should have the src.rpm as well.
I'll try to install Kino with yum. If it's in RPMForge, I should be able to get it.
Cinelerra is more of a "generic case" editor. Plus, it's quite buggy. ;-)
If the camera is high-def, then I suggest using a Windows-based application, especially if it's a newer AVCHD camera. Linux is not quite there yet in high-def; maybe something like Cinelerra or Kdenlive will work with older MPEG2 high-def systems, but you're pretty much on your own.
In fact, for pretty much anything except standard-def DV, Windows is by far the better option. Maybe either Cinelerra or Kdenlive will pick up speed and change the situation some time in the future.
Florin: Thank you, for all of your comments! Lanny
Lanny Marcus wrote:
I'm assuming it is a MiniDV format camcorder.
Well, the funny thing is, that's just the physical support. MiniDV can carry either standard-def DV, or high-def MPEG2.
Is it an HD camera or standard-def?
I installed cinelerra and will try to install Kino now.
If it's standard-def, you can quickly capture video from the camera with a command-line tool, if you wish. It's called dvgrab and it's part of the Kino project, but it's usually a separate RPM - CentOS has it in the Base repo.
This is what I use with dvgrab 3.0:
dvgrab --autosplit --size 0 --format dv2 --opendml --noavc --nostop \ --showstatus --timestamp --frames 0 --buffers 200 ${basename}-
Rewind the tape, connect the camera to the PC, start dvgrab, then push the Play button on the camera. Wait until the whole tape is dumped and the camera stops. Kill dvgrab.
With the above parameters, dvgrab will start a new file whenever there's a scene change on the tape, which is nice. Those files can be viewed with lots of different players (xine, vlc, mplayer...) and edited with Kino to cut off undesirable portions and stuff like that. With Kino, DV editing is lossless.
There are many ways to convert DV to all kinds of other formats. With Linux-based tools, one way to do conversion to DVD is this:
http://florin.myip.org/soft/conv-dvd/
I attached to this message another script which pretty much does the same thing, except it requires Windows-based tools running under WINE (AviSynth, HC Encoder, and associated software), but the image quality of the DVD is much better, since HCenc is a very good MPEG2 encoder.
Under Linux, without WINE, for DVD you can encode to MPEG2 with either mpeg2enc (so-so image quality, so-so speed, good standards compliance) or with ffmpeg (fast, poor image quality, produces MPEG2 that violates the DVD standard and may crash some standalone DVD players). mencoder is similar to ffmpeg since they use the same underlying code.
HD is a very different story.
dvgrab can still be used for capture with MiniDV/MPEG2 cameras. I've heard that Cinelerra may be able to edit HD MPEG2. I doubt there's anything on Linux that can reliably parse and edit AVCHD, because libavcodec (essentially the only AVC decoder on Linux, and the only open source AVCHD decoder on Windows) has pretty big problems parsing interlaced high-def AVC (but if your camera is MiniDV, it's definitely not AVCHD).
I'm not sure how to do Blu-Ray authoring on Linux (or at least the poor man's Blu-Ray-file-structure-burned-on-DVD, a.k.a. AVCHD disks) other than running tsMuxer under WINE (or try the Linux version, if you can figure out how to use it text-mode). For BD or AVCHD authoring, you may have to transcode MPEG2 to AVCHD (unless you can produce on Linux a BD structure with the video track in MPEG2 format). Hopefully x264 works for you, but you may have to interface it with AviSynth - under WINE, of course. :-)
It's not a pretty HD situation on Linux. Windows is much better.
On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 3:47 PM, Florin Andrei florin@andrei.myip.org wrote:
Akemi Yagi wrote:
Cinelerra. It is very powerful, and Dag kindly added to his repo quite sometime ago.
It is powerful, but if the digital camera is a FireWire-based standard-def DV camera, the right choice is Kino:
I have been using kino to import from our miniDV camcorder and do some simple editing -- but all on FC6. As I wrote in my post earlier in this thread, I have been unable to do this on CentOS 5. Were you able to get kino to recognize the firewire port ? If so, would you mind sharing your experience in this forum thread?
http://www.centos.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&topic_id...
Thanks,
Akemi (nick: toracat)
Akemi Yagi wrote:
I have been using kino to import from our miniDV camcorder and do some simple editing -- but all on FC6. As I wrote in my post earlier in this thread, I have been unable to do this on CentOS 5. Were you able to get kino to recognize the firewire port ? If so, would you mind sharing your experience in this forum thread?
http://www.centos.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&topic_id...
I don't use CentOS on workstations and laptops, only on servers. :-)
Sounds like the FireWire stack (kernel + libraries) in CentOS is seriously broken. In the past, I used to have minor issues with FireWire under old Fedora versions (like, FC3 or so), but all that stuff could be fixed by manually loading a module or creating a /dev node. Looks like that's not the case on CentOS. :-(
Under these circumstances, I would avoid using CentOS on systems where I need to transfer video over FireWire, and it all needs to function without headaches.
It may start working with a different kernel and/or a different libraw1394.
But honestly, I have no real clue. Sorry. :-/
On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 6:58 PM, Florin Andrei florin@andrei.myip.org wrote:
Akemi Yagi wrote:
I have been using kino to import from our miniDV camcorder and do some simple editing -- but all on FC6. As I wrote in my post earlier in this thread, I have been unable to do this on CentOS 5. Were you able to get kino to recognize the firewire port ? If so, would you mind sharing your experience in this forum thread?
http://www.centos.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&topic_id...
I don't use CentOS on workstations and laptops, only on servers. :-)
Sounds like the FireWire stack (kernel + libraries) in CentOS is seriously broken. In the past, I used to have minor issues with FireWire under old Fedora versions (like, FC3 or so), but all that stuff could be fixed by manually loading a module or creating a /dev node. Looks like that's not the case on CentOS. :-(
Under these circumstances, I would avoid using CentOS on systems where I need to transfer video over FireWire, and it all needs to function without headaches.
It may start working with a different kernel and/or a different libraw1394.
After we get the camcorder and a PCI Firewire card, I will try this in CentOS 5.2 and let you know if it works on our HW. Possibly it has to do with the HW Akemi is using, but, probably not, because it works there on FC6. Probably you are correct that something is broken in CentOS for Firewire.
On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 7:57 PM, Lanny Marcus lmmailinglists@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 6:58 PM, Florin Andrei florin@andrei.myip.org wrote:
Akemi Yagi wrote:
I have been using kino to import from our miniDV camcorder and do some simple editing -- but all on FC6. As I wrote in my post earlier in this thread, I have been unable to do this on CentOS 5. Were you able to get kino to recognize the firewire port ? If so, would you mind sharing your experience in this forum thread?
http://www.centos.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&topic_id...
I don't use CentOS on workstations and laptops, only on servers. :-)
Sounds like the FireWire stack (kernel + libraries) in CentOS is seriously broken. In the past, I used to have minor issues with FireWire under old Fedora versions (like, FC3 or so), but all that stuff could be fixed by manually loading a module or creating a /dev node. Looks like that's not the case on CentOS. :-(
Under these circumstances, I would avoid using CentOS on systems where I need to transfer video over FireWire, and it all needs to function without headaches.
It may start working with a different kernel and/or a different libraw1394.
After we get the camcorder and a PCI Firewire card, I will try this in CentOS 5.2 and let you know if it works on our HW. Possibly it has to do with the HW Akemi is using, but, probably not, because it works there on FC6. Probably you are correct that something is broken in CentOS for Firewire.
I almost forgot to tell you that firewire support is disabled in the distro kernel. This is upstream's decision. Fortunately, we have centosplus kernel which has firewire enabled. This is briefly mentioned in the forum thread I referred to.
Akemi
Akemi Yagi wrote:
I almost forgot to tell you that firewire support is disabled in the distro kernel. This is upstream's decision.
wow :-(
Why did they do that?
On Wed, Aug 6, 2008 at 11:27 AM, Florin Andrei florin@andrei.myip.org wrote:
Akemi Yagi wrote:
I almost forgot to tell you that firewire support is disabled in the distro kernel. This is upstream's decision.
wow :-(
Why did they do that?
Well, this is just my guess -- enterprise class Linux is (used to be) primarily for servers and therefore there is not much demand for things like firewire and wireless and...
The situation *might* change if/when upstream start pushing toward the desktop world.
Akemi
on 8-6-2008 11:33 AM Akemi Yagi spake the following:
On Wed, Aug 6, 2008 at 11:27 AM, Florin Andrei florin-Gi6/mztQvpj4H+XZpSEoPA@public.gmane.org wrote:
Akemi Yagi wrote:
I almost forgot to tell you that firewire support is disabled in the distro kernel. This is upstream's decision.
wow :-(
Why did they do that?
Well, this is just my guess -- enterprise class Linux is (used to be) primarily for servers and therefore there is not much demand for things like firewire and wireless and...
The situation *might* change if/when upstream start pushing toward the desktop world.
Akemi
I also believe there are firewire exploits that can allow unauth. access since firewire has direct DMA access. But that may or may not be upstreams motivation. It could be as simple as they didn't want to support it.
On Wed, August 6, 2008 13:33, Akemi Yagi wrote:
On Wed, Aug 6, 2008 at 11:27 AM, Florin Andrei florin@andrei.myip.org wrote:
Why did they do that?
Well, this is just my guess -- enterprise class Linux is (used to be) primarily for servers and therefore there is not much demand for things like firewire and wireless and...
Firewire is a sensible interface for external backup devices in some configurations. Then again, is it hard to add back in?
-----Original Message----- From: centos-bounces@centos.org [mailto:centos-bounces@centos.org] On Behalf Of David Dyer-Bennet Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 3:36 PM To: CentOS mailing list Subject: Re: [CentOS] OT: Digital Video Editor for CentOS 5.2
- Suggestions?
On Wed, August 6, 2008 13:33, Akemi Yagi wrote:
On Wed, Aug 6, 2008 at 11:27 AM, Florin Andrei florin@andrei.myip.org wrote:
Why did they do that?
Well, this is just my guess -- enterprise class Linux is
(used to be)
primarily for servers and therefore there is not much demand for things like firewire and wireless and...
Firewire is a sensible interface for external backup devices in some configurations. Then again, is it hard to add back in?
I was under the impression that firewire hard drives worked it was the libraw firewire stuff that was yanked.
I could have sworn that I have used a centos cd to do a hd clone using firewire on my laptop.
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n Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 10:47 PM, Akemi Yagi amyagi@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 7:57 PM, Lanny Marcus lmmailinglists@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 6:58 PM, Florin Andrei florin@andrei.myip.org wrote:
Akemi Yagi wrote:
I have been using kino to import from our miniDV camcorder and do some simple editing -- but all on FC6. As I wrote in my post earlier in this thread, I have been unable to do this on CentOS 5. Were you able to get kino to recognize the firewire port ? If so, would you mind sharing your experience in this forum thread?
<snip>
After we get the camcorder and a PCI Firewire card, I will try this in CentOS 5.2 and let you know if it works on our HW. Possibly it has to do with the HW Akemi is using, but, probably not, because it works there on FC6. Probably you are correct that something is broken in CentOS for Firewire.
I almost forgot to tell you that firewire support is disabled in the distro kernel. This is upstream's decision. Fortunately, we have centosplus kernel which has firewire enabled. This is briefly mentioned in the forum thread I referred to.
Thank you for advising me about that very critical detail! I would have wondered why it didn't work, with the standard kernel!
On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 6:13 PM, Akemi Yagi amyagi@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 3:47 PM, Florin Andrei florin@andrei.myip.org wrote:
Akemi Yagi wrote:
Cinelerra. It is very powerful, and Dag kindly added to his repo quite sometime ago.
It is powerful, but if the digital camera is a FireWire-based standard-def DV camera, the right choice is Kino:
I have been using kino to import from our miniDV camcorder and do some simple editing -- but all on FC6. As I wrote in my post earlier in this thread, I have been unable to do this on CentOS 5. Were you able to get kino to recognize the firewire port ? If so, would you mind sharing your experience in this forum thread?
http://www.centos.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&topic_id...
I will need to buy a PCI card for Firewire and put it into one of our Desktop boxes.. Probably my wife's, because it has the biggest HD. If it doesn't work on CentOS 5.2, we will need to use M$ Windows. Hopefully, it will work on Linux. :-) CentOS 5 is based on FC6, but there must be something included in Fedora that isn't in CentOS? Simple editing is probably what we will be doing here. We got an opportunity to buy a new camcorder this afternoon and will buy it tomorrow. It was on display and we have a chance to buy it, for about 70% less.
Lanny Marcus wrote:
I will need to buy a PCI card for Firewire and put it into one of our Desktop boxes.. Probably my wife's, because it has the biggest HD. If it doesn't work on CentOS 5.2, we will need to use M$ Windows.
...
good news is, firewire cards are quite cheap. note that DV uses firewire 100, which is compatible with 100-400 but NOT 800 (sigh). so don't get a card which has only firewire 800 ports. also, you'll need a 1394 cable that has the standard firewire 100-400 connector on one end and the little tiny camcorder connector on the other (this is similar to but VERY DIFFERENT than the miniUSB connector)
bad news is, you really should have a separate drive just for video capture to reduce disk contention as the streaming rate of the capture can't be interrupted. its only around 3MB/sec, so its not /that/ bad with today's faster drives, but still.
John R Pierce wrote:
bad news is, you really should have a separate drive just for video capture to reduce disk contention as the streaming rate of the capture can't be interrupted. its only around 3MB/sec, so its not /that/ bad with today's faster drives, but still.
Well, it depends. If you're just browsing and reading email, a separate drive is really quite unnecessary. I got away with a single drive for everything, I just bumped up the buffers in dvgrab to like 200 frames or so (about 7 seconds for NTSC) and everything was fine.
dvgrab will tell you if it drops frames. If it does, you know you have to either: - increase the buffer even more - stop messing around with the system - should the previous fail, then get a dedicated drive
On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 11:05 PM, John R Pierce pierce@hogranch.com wrote:
Lanny Marcus wrote:
I will need to buy a PCI card for Firewire and put it into one of our Desktop boxes.. Probably my wife's, because it has the biggest HD. If it doesn't work on CentOS 5.2, we will need to use M$ Windows.
good news is, firewire cards are quite cheap. note that DV uses firewire 100, which is compatible with 100-400 but NOT 800 (sigh). so don't get a card which has only firewire 800 ports. also, you'll need a 1394 cable that has the standard firewire 100-400 connector on one end and the little tiny camcorder connector on the other (this is similar to but VERY DIFFERENT than the miniUSB connector)
bad news is, you really should have a separate drive just for video capture to reduce disk contention as the streaming rate of the capture can't be interrupted. its only around 3MB/sec, so its not /that/ bad with today's faster drives, but still.
John: Thank you, for all of the above information! If I can't buy the card here in our town, there is something like Ebay and I can probably order it there. Very useful data to have,, *before* I buy the card, and not after. I have a couple of spare HDs, in a box, so I can install one, if there is a spare bay. I will check out the specs on our 3 Desktops, to see which of them can handle a 2nd HD. Lanny
Dear List,
I have an older Sony Vaio that I would like to install CentOS on. The unit has a USB CD that can _not_ be used as a boot device (the Sony one could, but mine is an aftermarket CD and can't be used to boot). It does have a floppy drive that it can boot from.
The only network install method for CentOS that I can find uses a CD, not a floppy.
Is there anyway to get CentOS on this machine?
Thanks!
Bob Smither wrote:
Dear List,
I have an older Sony Vaio that I would like to install CentOS on. The unit has a USB CD that can _not_ be used as a boot device (the Sony one could, but mine is an aftermarket CD and can't be used to boot). It does have a floppy drive that it can boot from.
The only network install method for CentOS that I can find uses a CD, not a floppy.
Is there anyway to get CentOS on this machine?
You can write floppy, boot from it and continue install from CD. I hope... ;)
If your Sony can boot from network by PXE, so you can use that way too (and it's one I prefer), but you have to have appropriate server for this type of install.
Hi,
On Wed, 2008-08-06 at 11:36 -0500, Bob Smither wrote:
Dear List,
I have an older Sony Vaio that I would like to install CentOS on. The unit has a USB CD that can _not_ be used as a boot device (the Sony one could, but mine is an aftermarket CD and can't be used to boot). It does have a floppy drive that it can boot from.
The only network install method for CentOS that I can find uses a CD, not a floppy.
Is there anyway to get CentOS on this machine?
Can you boot from USB stick? You then could use the Live CD, converted to USB or use another bootable linux on it. As long as you have a bootable partition where you can put a vmlinuz, initrd.img and grub, you're in business.
regards,
Michel
On Wed, 2008-08-06 at 20:03 +0200, Michel van Deventer wrote:
Hi,
On Wed, 2008-08-06 at 11:36 -0500, Bob Smither wrote:
Dear List,
I have an older Sony Vaio that I would like to install CentOS on. The unit has a USB CD that can _not_ be used as a boot device (the Sony one could, but mine is an aftermarket CD and can't be used to boot). It does have a floppy drive that it can boot from.
I think someone mentioned a floppy. Last I checked, the ISO image had some sub-directories that contained floppy images. If they're still included, you should be able to make a bootable floppy and then use the USB CD as the install media. Or get the image from a network location (IIRC).
The only network install method for CentOS that I can find uses a CD, not a floppy.
Give the floppy method a try. If it let's you get either the CD or to a network, you should be able to install.
Is there anyway to get CentOS on this machine?
Can you boot from USB stick? You then could use the Live CD, converted to USB or use another bootable linux on it. As long as you have a bootable partition where you can put a vmlinuz, initrd.img and grub, you're in business.
regards,
Michel
<snip sig stuff>
HTH
on 8-6-2008 11:34 AM William L. Maltby spake the following:
On Wed, 2008-08-06 at 20:03 +0200, Michel van Deventer wrote:
Hi,
On Wed, 2008-08-06 at 11:36 -0500, Bob Smither wrote:
Dear List,
I have an older Sony Vaio that I would like to install CentOS on. The unit has a USB CD that can _not_ be used as a boot device (the Sony one could, but mine is an aftermarket CD and can't be used to boot). It does have a floppy drive that it can boot from.
I think someone mentioned a floppy. Last I checked, the ISO image had some sub-directories that contained floppy images. If they're still included, you should be able to make a bootable floppy and then use the USB CD as the install media. Or get the image from a network location (IIRC).
The only network install method for CentOS that I can find uses a CD, not a floppy.
Give the floppy method a try. If it let's you get either the CD or to a network, you should be able to install.
Is there anyway to get CentOS on this machine?
Can you boot from USB stick? You then could use the Live CD, converted to USB or use another bootable linux on it. As long as you have a bootable partition where you can put a vmlinuz, initrd.img and grub, you're in business.
regards,
Michel
<snip sig stuff>
HTH
Floppy is probably out per this info in the /images directory;
This directory contains image files that can be used to create media capable of starting the CentOS installation process.
The boot.iso file is an ISO 9660 image of a bootable CD-ROM. It is useful in cases where the CD-ROM installation method is not desired, but the CD-ROM's boot speed would be an advantage.
To use this image file, burn the file onto CD-R (or CD-RW) media as you normally would.
The diskboot.img file is a VFAT filesystem image that can be written to a USB pendrive or other bootable media larger than a floppy. Note that booting via USB is dependent on your BIOS supporting this. It should be written to the device using dd.
But if you can boot from USB you are all set. If you can only boot from floppy, you would need to use a bootable floppy linux that supports your network card to copy some stuff to the system and get it to boot the pxe images by whatever you can use like grub, or syslinux.
Or you can remove the hard drive and copy files to it from another system or install from that system.
Dear List,
Many thanks for all the suggestions! I will see if the Vaio can boot from a pen drive. Being several years old, I'm not sure. If not, the suggestion to put the drive in another computer is intriguing.
Best regards,
At 11:31 PM 8/6/2008, you wrote:
Dear List,
Many thanks for all the suggestions! I will see if the Vaio can boot from a pen drive. Being several years old, I'm not sure. If not, the suggestion to put the drive in another computer is intriguing.
Best regards,
I have used this technique on Windows and Linux machines for many years (over a decade). This will work unless your file system is encrypted. Even then, I think, as long as you have the encryption key and nnative tools for the OS that mounts it, it will work.
With the proliferation of USB and Firewire enclosures these days it has actually gotten easier.. especially with notebook drives!
Cheers, Glenn
Please don't reply to an existing discussion thread and change the subject. Create a new message if you start a new topic.
Thanks.
On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 4:36 PM, Akemi Yagi amyagi@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 2:26 PM, Lanny Marcus lmmailinglists@gmail.com wrote:
We are finally going to replace our VHS-C Camcorder, with a Digital Camcorder, tomorrow. Looking for suggestions, for Digital Video Editor to use on CentOS 5.2. Preferably, something in the CentOS or RPMForge repositories and easy to use. TIA!
Cinelerra. It is very powerful, and Dag kindly added to his repo quite sometime ago.
The only "problem" is that, because it is so powerful and feature rich, learning curve is very steep. I have yet to learn it myself but I already know its capabilities through my best Linux friend who is an expert in video editing.
Akemi: To revive my thread that is nearly six (6) months old... First, for reasons I will never understand, the store where my Stepson works took their sweet time about selling the camcorder to us at a discount, so there was a very long delay in our getting it and we've only used it a few times. Tonight, my wife had our eight (8) year old daughter use it, while she was doing her dance exercises. When she saw how great she looked, she wanted to edit the video and post on youtube. She has been using M$ Windows for months, so I suggested Windows Movie Maker or whatever it's called. She replied that she did not like that program and had deleted it from her box. So, I found this thread and she has been using Cinelerra on my box, but it saved the edited file in .xml format, so there *is* a learning curve to Cinelerra. Cinelerra seems to have *no* problems working with the video from the Samsung Camcorder which uses the mini DVD media. :-) She did discover in a web search that Cinelerra is only available for Linux and that it is not for beginners. She is very smart and persistent, so she will be able to use Cinelerra with time. Lanny
On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 4:36 PM, Akemi Yagi amyagi@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 2:26 PM, Lanny Marcus lmmailinglists@gmail.com wrote:
We are finally going to replace our VHS-C Camcorder, with a Digital Camcorder, tomorrow. Looking for suggestions, for Digital Video Editor to use on CentOS 5.2. Preferably, something in the CentOS or RPMForge repositories and easy to use. TIA!
Cinelerra. It is very powerful, and Dag kindly added to >his repo quite sometime ago. http://cinelerra.org/
The only "problem" is that, because it is so powerful and feature rich, learning curve is very steep. I have yet to learn it myself but I already know its capabilities through my best Linux friend who is an expert in video editing.
Akemi: A follow on to last nights message. After all this time, last night was the first time my wife wanted to edit a video. I went to bed about 1030 and have no idea what time she went to bed. This morning, I told her that Cinelerra looks like it might be easier to learn than "The Gimp" and that she can do it. She told me that she installed, tested and uninstalled several programs, in M$ Windows last night and that none of them could even open the file..... She said Cinelerra is the only program she has tried that can open it. The files we seem to need to edit have .vob extensions and are MPEG2 files. I need to tell her that when I read the Samsung manual, after we got the Camcorder, there is a difference between the 2 DVD RW formats. One can be edited and the other can't, as I recall. The one she used last night is a DVD+RW so I guess the DVD-RW cannot be edited. I asked her if she had installed and tried the Samsung software that came with the Camcorder, but she was so disgusted with the Software that came with a Samsung MP4 player that she sold it to my Stepson and she did not install their Software for the Camcorder. :-) Bottom Line: Cinelerra is the program for us to learn how to use. Lanny
On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 5:37 AM, Lanny Marcus lmmailinglists@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 4:36 PM, Akemi Yagi amyagi@gmail.com wrote:
Cinelerra. It is very powerful, and Dag kindly added to his repo quite sometime ago. http://cinelerra.org/
Akemi: A follow on to last nights message. After all this time, last night was the first time my wife wanted to edit a video. I went to bed about 1030 and have no idea what time she went to bed. This morning, I told her that Cinelerra looks like it might be easier to learn than "The Gimp" and that she can do it.
Brilliant! Thanks, Lanny, for sharing the lovely story. It is always nice to know that someone ditches the other OS and comes to Linux to get jobs done. From what you told us, your wife is no doubt a smart lady. I have yet to learn it (I know I'm behind) but I am already benefiting from it via my video expert friend.
Akemi
On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 10:58 AM, Akemi Yagi amyagi@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 5:37 AM, Lanny Marcus lmmailinglists@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 4:36 PM, Akemi Yagi amyagi@gmail.com wrote:
Cinelerra. It is very powerful, and Dag kindly added to his repo quite sometime ago. http://cinelerra.org/
<snip>
Brilliant! Thanks, Lanny, for sharing the lovely story. It is always nice to know that someone ditches the other OS and comes to Linux to get jobs done. From what you told us, your wife is no doubt a smart lady. I have yet to learn it (I know I'm behind) but I am already benefiting from it via my video expert friend.
Akemi: There are links to a lot of documentation about Cinelerra at this URL: http://www.cinelerra.org/docs.php I just downloaded the English language manual in .pdf format and will read some of the beginner How Tos and Tutorials. Lanny
On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 11:06 AM, Lanny Marcus lmmailinglists@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 10:58 AM, Akemi Yagi amyagi@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 5:37 AM, Lanny Marcus lmmailinglists@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 4:36 PM, Akemi Yagi amyagi@gmail.com wrote:
Cinelerra. It is very powerful, and Dag kindly added to his repo quite sometime ago. http://cinelerra.org/
<snip>
Brilliant! Thanks, Lanny, for sharing the lovely story. It is always nice to know that someone ditches the other OS and comes to Linux to get jobs done. From what you told us, your wife is no doubt a smart lady. I have yet to learn it (I know I'm behind) but I am already benefiting from it via my video expert friend.
Akemi: She's *much* smarter than I am. Although, she says the only person smarter than she is is me, because I married her. I installed the Samsung software that came with the Camcorder and Windows Movie Maker and 1 or 2 other applications on Windows today and none of them can even open the .vob file. I cannot explain this to you other than to say that Cinelerra is more intuitively obvious to use, although it is extremely complex. I will need to RFM much much more than my wife, to get the hang of Cinelerra. Still not sure why it produces an .xml file instead of .avi or something else, but if I RFM, I will probably figure that out. Some easy step(s) that we don't know about yet. Lanny
Still not sure why it produces an .xml file instead of .avi or something else, but if I RFM, I will probably figure that out.
Welcome to Non-linear video editing, I haven't read up on Cinelerra but it saves an xml file since while you are working in a project, you are not touching your data. Outside of a *very* large computer, raw dv is useless but every time you encode it, you lose quality. It would be a very bad idea to encode each time you save, which would also make saves unbearably long.
When you are done your "project" you then export(encode) it to a format you so desire.
HTH, jlc
On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 7:06 PM, Joseph L. Casale JCasale@activenetwerx.com wrote:
Still not sure why it produces an .xml file instead of .avi or something else, but if I RFM, I will probably figure that out.
Welcome to Non-linear video editing, I haven't read up on Cinelerra but it saves an xml file since while you are working in a project, you are not touching your data. Outside of a *very* large computer, raw dv is useless but every time you encode it, you lose quality. It would be a very bad idea to encode each time you save, which would also make saves unbearably long.
When you are done your "project" you then export(encode) it to a format you so desire.
Cinelerra will take a lot of reading. I installed kino a few hours ago and was able to import the file OK and my wife is using that now. :-) Quick and simple, but lacks the incredible power of Cinelerra. Eventually, I will figure out what to do in Cinelerra, after it produces those .xml files....
Lanny Marcus wrote:
On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 7:06 PM, Joseph L. Casale JCasale@activenetwerx.com wrote:
Still not sure why it produces an .xml file instead of .avi or something else, but if I RFM, I will probably figure that out.
Welcome to Non-linear video editing, I haven't read up on Cinelerra but it saves an xml file since while you are working in a project, you are not touching your data. Outside of a *very* large computer, raw dv is useless but every time you encode it, you lose quality. It would be a very bad idea to encode each time you save, which would also make saves unbearably long.
When you are done your "project" you then export(encode) it to a format you so desire.
Cinelerra will take a lot of reading. I installed kino a few hours ago and was able to import the file OK and my wife is using that now. :-) Quick and simple, but lacks the incredible power of Cinelerra. Eventually, I will figure out what to do in Cinelerra, after it produces those .xml files....
the XML files are like a project description, as opposed to the actual video. think of them as a edit list. all they are good for is loading/saving in the video editor. what JCasale said, you 'export' your edited video project to generate a mpeg or avi or whatever. in some programs its 'make movie'.
On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 10:23 PM, John R Pierce pierce@hogranch.com wrote:
Lanny Marcus wrote:
On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 7:06 PM, Joseph L. Casale JCasale@activenetwerx.com wrote:
Still not sure why it produces an .xml file instead of .avi or something else, but if I RFM, I will probably figure that out.
Welcome to Non-linear video editing, I haven't read up on Cinelerra but it saves an xml file since while you are working in a project, you are not touching your data. Outside of a *very* large computer, raw dv is useless but every time you encode it, you lose quality. It would be a very bad idea to encode each time you save, which would also make saves unbearably long.
When you are done your "project" you then export(encode) it to a format you so desire.
the XML files are like a project description, as opposed to the actual video. think of them as a edit list. all they are good for is loading/saving in the video editor. what JCasale said, you 'export' your edited video project to generate a mpeg or avi or whatever. in some programs its 'make movie'.
I did some reading about Cinelerra last night and they call it Render or Rendering, when you are finished editing and want to Save. They save the video and audio files separately. I guess that's how we are able to see some programs on DirectTV in English or in Spanish.... And, movies on DVDs.....
I did some reading about Cinelerra last night and they call it Render or Rendering, when you are finished editing and want to Save. They save the video and audio files separately. I guess that's how we are able to see some programs on DirectTV in English or in Spanish.... And, movies on DVDs.....
Lanny, There's actually so much more to video than most think. When you watch a video with sound, you are actually watching a multiplexed stream of one video stream and one audio stream (or a few etc). Normally in any real editor, you are working with all the streams independently on the timeline. You will later multiplex them back to a combined stream for distribution, or maybe send them separately into a format authoring suit like something that makes a dvd with menus etc.
The best thing you could do is hang out at http://www.doom9.org/ although windows oriented, the knowledge and understanding you'll gain and forum help will be valuable. They have many guides which illustrate the technique and point out caveats or things to watch for which will really broaden your understanding of what is going and all that can go wrong! There's some crazy technoogy behind encoding video!
I just looked at http://cinelerra.org/docs.php and was blown away at how shockingly good the documentation is! I'll keep this in mind next time I am on Linux and do any nl video editing (I used to use adobe products which are pretty tough to beat, but I was only ever a hack :>).
Enjoy the new hobby, I found it fun... jlc
On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 3:26 PM, Joseph L. Casale JCasale@activenetwerx.com wrote: <snip>
There's actually so much more to video than most think. >When you watch a video with sound, you are actually watching a >multiplexed stream of one video stream and one audio stream (or a few etc).
Our first attempts at editing got the audio slightly out of sync, so that's something we need to practice.
The best thing you could do is hang out at >http://www.doom9.org/ although windows oriented, the knowledge and understanding >.you'll gain and forum help
Thank you for the link. I will check it out.
I just looked at http://cinelerra.org/docs.php and was >blown away at how shockingly good the documentation is! I'll keep this in >mind next time I am on Linux and do any nl video editing (I used to use
I will need to RFM, a lot, before I can use cinelerra properly. One of my friends in high school is now a Film Editor in Hollywood. I now have a *tiny* idea about what he does for a living. He received two Academy award nominations.
Regarding our new Samsung Camcorder, which uses Mini DVDs, in case I wrote anything Negative about it: My wife used a Mini DVD+RW and there were no problems, mounting it in our DVD Burners or DVD Readers. Then, she used a Mini DVD-RW and we couldn't view anything. She had thoughts of selling it and buying a Canon Mini DV Camcorder, which is apparently what the majority of people are using (Mini DV format). This morning, I came into the office and found the Mini DVD-RW by my computer and a note to enjoy the 2 videos. She read the Samsung manual last night (which is in English and in Spanish) and she said it is *outstanding* and that our 8 year old daughter could understand it. The problem was that with the Mini DVD-RW media, one must Finalize, before being able to mount in the computer...... She pointed out that being lazy and not reading the manual was the problem and now she loves the Samsung DVD Camcorder (and the manual).
On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 4:36 PM, Akemi Yagi amyagi@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 2:26 PM, Lanny Marcus lmmailinglists@gmail.com wrote:
We are finally going to replace our VHS-C Camcorder, with a Digital Camcorder, tomorrow. Looking for suggestions, for Digital Video Editor to use on CentOS 5.2. Preferably, something in the CentOS or RPMForge repositories and easy to use. TIA!
Cinelerra. It is very powerful, and Dag kindly added to his repo quite sometime ago.
The only "problem" is that, because it is so powerful and feature rich, learning curve is very steep. I have yet to learn it myself but I already know its capabilities through my best Linux friend who is an expert in video editing.
Akemi: My wife was successful with cinelerra, for the first time, last night. :-) I suggested she RFM, but when she is frustrated, like most people, she doesn't want to RFM. She really likes kino, easy to use, but there were problems, with the quality of some of the videos, after she used kino on them. One of these days, she will download the Spanish language cinelerra manual and read the Spanish language tutorial and then she will be on her way with cinelerra...... :-) Lanny
On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 6:09 AM, Lanny Marcus lmmailinglists@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 4:36 PM, Akemi Yagi amyagi@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 2:26 PM, Lanny Marcus lmmailinglists@gmail.com wrote:
We are finally going to replace our VHS-C Camcorder, with a Digital Camcorder, tomorrow. Looking for suggestions, for Digital Video Editor to use on CentOS 5.2. Preferably, something in the CentOS or RPMForge repositories and easy to use. TIA!
Cinelerra. It is very powerful, and Dag kindly added to his repo quite sometime ago.
Akemi: My wife was successful with cinelerra, for the first time, last night. :-) I suggested she RFM, but when she is frustrated, like most people, she doesn't want to RFM. She really likes kino, easy to use, but there were problems, with the quality of some of the videos, after she used kino on them. One of these days, she will download the Spanish language cinelerra manual and read the Spanish language tutorial and then she will be on her way with cinelerra...... :-) Lanny
Thanks for the update, Lanny. I use kino to transfer video (in .dv) from a camcorder but, yes, its editing is not robust. By the way, if anyone is having problems with kino and firewire connection under CentOS-5, there is a solution. It's on my little blog: http://blog.toracat.org/?p=84 .
Akemi
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Akemi Yagi -
Bob Smither -
David Dyer-Bennet -
Florin Andrei -
Glenn -
Jason Pyeron -
John R Pierce -
Joseph L. Casale -
Lanny Marcus -
Michel van Deventer -
Rainer Duffner -
Ross S. W. Walker -
Scott Silva -
Sergey Podushkin -
William L. Maltby