I did a minimal install and then with yum groupinstall, installed http, ftp and samba servers. However the gui server settings are not displayed for these servers. Is there a package that I need to install or do I need to change a setting(s) in a file?
In reading "man yum" I did not see a way to find out what rpm's are installed with each group, or maybe I just did not understand the man pages. Can this be done?
Todd
On Tue, 2005-08-16 at 08:10 -0700, Todd Cary wrote:
I did a minimal install and then with yum groupinstall, installed http, ftp and samba servers. However the gui server settings are not displayed for these servers. Is there a package that I need to install or do I need to change a setting(s) in a file?
In reading "man yum" I did not see a way to find out what rpm's are installed with each group, or maybe I just did not understand the man pages. Can this be done?
yum list system-config-*
Slick! Many thanks!
yum -y install system-config-*
Voila!
I do not believe the book I would like has been written: "Basic RH Linux Admin". My book shelves are well populated with Linux books, but they give so much information that it makes the retrival of many questions hard to find. Of course being dyslexic only adds to the problem.
Todd
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote:
On Tue, 2005-08-16 at 08:10 -0700, Todd Cary wrote:
I did a minimal install and then with yum groupinstall, installed http, ftp and samba servers. However the gui server settings are not displayed for these servers. Is there a package that I need to install or do I need to change a setting(s) in a file?
In reading "man yum" I did not see a way to find out what rpm's are installed with each group, or maybe I just did not understand the man pages. Can this be done?
yum list system-config-*
CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Todd Cary wrote:
I do not believe the book I would like has been written: "Basic RH Linux Admin". My book shelves are well populated with Linux books, but they give so much information that it makes the retrival of many questions hard to find. Of course being dyslexic only adds to the problem.
The "problem," if you can call it that, is that Linux can do so many things. It's difficult to have a "Cliff Notes" version of a real Linux-centric system admin book. There are a number of well written online sites that have more trimmed down versions of various howtos and other documentation. Google is your friend. 8-)
Cheers,
Chris Mauritz chrism@imntv.com wrote:
The "problem," if you can call it that, is that Linux can do so many things. It's difficult to have a "Cliff Notes" version of a real Linux-centric system admin book.
There really should be a Linux book called "Linux For Users" that could fit under 300 pages.
It would assume you either had a local sysadmin (corporate users) or a local LUG (home users) that could assist in installing and hardware setup. In the worst case, a sister book that focused on more of the administration details could and should be separate.
Just my $0.02 ...
--- "Bryan J. Smith" b.j.smith@ieee.org wrote:
Chris Mauritz chrism@imntv.com wrote:
The "problem," if you can call it that, is that
Linux can
do so many things. It's difficult to have a
"Cliff Notes"
version of a real Linux-centric system admin book.
There really should be a Linux book called "Linux For Users" that could fit under 300 pages.
It would assume you either had a local sysadmin (corporate users) or a local LUG (home users) that could assist in installing and hardware setup. In the worst case, a sister book that focused on more of the administration details could and should be separate.
Just my $0.02 ...
-- Bryan J. Smith | Sent from Yahoo Mail mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org | (please excuse any http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ | missing headers) _______________________________________________ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Well Bryan you found your next project to keep you busy for a few moments ;-)
Steven
"On the side of the software box, in the 'System Requirements' section, it said 'Requires Windows or better'. So I installed Linux."
Bryan -
Agreed! For me there is a distinction between "understanding" and "knowing". My 30 years experience has been in the Windows environment and in comparison, Linux is much easier to understand. The challenge is knowing where to look or knowing which function and switch to use.
I often use the term "spiral learning"; that is one starts with a task to do. Rather than having to commit reems of information to memory to achieve a simple task, it is easier to accomplish the task by looking up what is wanted. Then one can expand (spiral outward) his knowledge. Now I have many friends who prefer to read manuals from cover to cover (and they remember most of it). Of course, my dyslexia creates it's own hurdle and bias.
Todd
Bryan J. Smith wrote:
Chris Mauritz chrism@imntv.com wrote:
The "problem," if you can call it that, is that Linux can do so many things. It's difficult to have a "Cliff Notes" version of a real Linux-centric system admin book.
There really should be a Linux book called "Linux For Users" that could fit under 300 pages.
It would assume you either had a local sysadmin (corporate users) or a local LUG (home users) that could assist in installing and hardware setup. In the worst case, a sister book that focused on more of the administration details could and should be separate.
Just my $0.02 ...
On Tue, 2005-08-16 at 13:10, Todd Cary wrote:
Bryan -
Agreed! For me there is a distinction between "understanding" and "knowing". My 30 years experience has been in the Windows environment and in comparison, Linux is much easier to understand. The challenge is knowing where to look or knowing which function and switch to use.
I'd add to the challenge knowing which of the nearly-infinite ways of doing something is going to work best, require the least effort, and/or work the same across many distributions and versions... 'yum update' is an extreme example compared to any other way to maintain a system. But it doesn't work that way everywhere and even where it does you may want packages that aren't bundled in any repositories so you have to know how and when to do things the hard way.
I often use the term "spiral learning"; that is one starts with a task to do. Rather than having to commit reems of information to memory to achieve a simple task, it is easier to accomplish the task by looking up what is wanted. Then one can expand (spiral outward) his knowledge. Now I have many friends who prefer to read manuals from cover to cover (and they remember most of it). Of course, my dyslexia creates it's own hurdle and bias.
There are certain core parts that help with all your other learning like basic shell and regular expression syntax, but it is nice to avoid as much of the oddball details that will change next week as as possible. The problem is that you don't know which is which until too late - like after the LSB group meets and decides to move everything again. Someone should write an 'all you need to know besides webmin' book that just lists the things you can't do by filling in webmin forms.
Very nicely stated......wish you were writing a book!
Todd
Les Mikesell wrote:
On Tue, 2005-08-16 at 13:10, Todd Cary wrote:
Bryan -
Agreed! For me there is a distinction between "understanding" and "knowing". My 30 years experience has been in the Windows environment and in comparison, Linux is much easier to understand. The challenge is knowing where to look or knowing which function and switch to use.
I'd add to the challenge knowing which of the nearly-infinite ways of doing something is going to work best, require the least effort, and/or work the same across many distributions and versions... 'yum update' is an extreme example compared to any other way to maintain a system. But it doesn't work that way everywhere and even where it does you may want packages that aren't bundled in any repositories so you have to know how and when to do things the hard way.
I often use the term "spiral learning"; that is one starts with a task to do. Rather than having to commit reems of information to memory to achieve a simple task, it is easier to accomplish the task by looking up what is wanted. Then one can expand (spiral outward) his knowledge. Now I have many friends who prefer to read manuals from cover to cover (and they remember most of it). Of course, my dyslexia creates it's own hurdle and bias.
There are certain core parts that help with all your other learning like basic shell and regular expression syntax, but it is nice to avoid as much of the oddball details that will change next week as as possible. The problem is that you don't know which is which until too late - like after the LSB group meets and decides to move everything again. Someone should write an 'all you need to know besides webmin' book that just lists the things you can't do by filling in webmin forms.
One more item. We have network administrators and Linux experts on the team, but take for instance my home office server. Basically it is a FTP and HTTP box that just runs and runs. However, there are those routine tasks of setting up Centos and getting Interbase and PHP working together. This is more than what is in the "Understanding Unix" book on my shelf (too basic) and less than most of what is in "Linux System Administration" (though it is a great reference book).
What is needed IMHO is a *task* oriented book for beginning system administration - not the normal structure of most Linux books.
OK...onward with enjoying my first install of Centos......
Todd
Todd Cary wrote:
Bryan -
Agreed! For me there is a distinction between "understanding" and "knowing". My 30 years experience has been in the Windows environment and in comparison, Linux is much easier to understand. The challenge is knowing where to look or knowing which function and switch to use.
I often use the term "spiral learning"; that is one starts with a task to do. Rather than having to commit reems of information to memory to achieve a simple task, it is easier to accomplish the task by looking up what is wanted. Then one can expand (spiral outward) his knowledge. Now I have many friends who prefer to read manuals from cover to cover (and they remember most of it). Of course, my dyslexia creates it's own hurdle and bias.
Todd
Bryan J. Smith wrote:
Chris Mauritz chrism@imntv.com wrote:
The "problem," if you can call it that, is that Linux can do so many things. It's difficult to have a "Cliff Notes" version of a real Linux-centric system admin book.
There really should be a Linux book called "Linux For Users" that could fit under 300 pages.
It would assume you either had a local sysadmin (corporate users) or a local LUG (home users) that could assist in installing and hardware setup. In the worst case, a sister book that focused on more of the administration details could and should be separate.
Just my $0.02 ...
-- Ariste Software 200 D Street Ext Petaluma, CA 94952 (707) 773-4523
CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
On Tue, 2005-08-16 at 13:29, Todd Cary wrote:
What is needed IMHO is a *task* oriented book for beginning system administration - not the normal structure of most Linux books.
If you can describe it in a task oriented step-by-step approach you could just as easily script it so that no one would ever have to do those steps again. If you have a situation that fits the appliance-oriented approach (an office or home with one server and one internet connection) you might like the SME server from http://www.contribs.org. Administration is all through web forms and is task oriented. The next version will have Centos inside. I'd just rather see something with similar concepts that could be added on to a stock distribution like webmin instead of making something completely different. Unlike webmin, it maintains its own database to rebuild config files and in many cases it combines concepts for simplicity. For example, if you create a 'group' you automatically get an email distribution group and a unix permission group at the same time. Likewise, you add an 'information bay' or ibay and get a samba share, an ftp directory, and a web site all at the same time.
Les Mikesell lesmikesell@gmail.com wrote:
If you can describe it in a task oriented step-by-step approach you could just as easily script it so that no one would ever have to do those steps again.
Not always, with all the variables.
If you have a situation that fits the appliance-oriented approach (an office or home with one server and one internet connection) you might like the SME server from http://www.contribs.org. Administration is all through web forms and is task oriented.
I agree with you there for SOHOs/SMBs. Between IPCop and SME Server, you have 95% of your necessary functionality -- from an Internet security appliance that catches 95% of intrusions to a LAN server that serves 95% of your needs.
The next version will have Centos inside. I'd just rather see something with similar concepts that could be added on to a stock distribution like webmin instead of making something completely different. Unlike webmin, it maintains its own database to rebuild config files and in many cases it combines concepts for simplicity.
The problem is the "assumptions game." Great for SOHOs/SMBs, not so good for MBs to enterprises.
For example, if you create a 'group' you automatically get an email distribution group and a unix permission group at the same time.
Or why not a full LDAP entry for that matter, with all services referencing it? I think that's where Fedora Directory Server is headed in terms of integration, which RHEL (and CentOS) will then follow -- hopefully in RHEL 5.
Likewise, you add an 'information bay' or ibay and get a samba share, an ftp directory, and a web site all at the same time.
Again, such assumptions are great for SOHOs/SMBs, but not so good for MBs and enterprises.
Once again, I don't think the problem is the format of the book, it's the content -- too much all-in-one. It was fine for UNIX, when most users were also sysadmins. But today the Linux desktop is more than what UNIX users were, while not always a sysadmin either.
Todd Cary todd@aristesoftware.com wrote:
Agreed! For me there is a distinction between "understanding" and "knowing". My 30 years experience has been in the Windows environment
I think the first instance of MS Basic was the Altair of 1976. I assume you mean your experience has been on the single-user environments of the 8080 on-ward, yes? ;->
and in comparison, Linux is much easier to understand.
Once you learn UNIX terminology, it's good 4ever! With Windows terminology, you retrain every 5+ years.
The challenge is knowing where to look or knowing which function and switch to use.
If Roblimo's new book is any indication, users want a book that is ~300 pages and teaches them how to _use_ Linux -- especially with the mass corporate adoption taking place.
I often use the term "spiral learning"; that is one starts with a task to do. Rather than having to commit reems of information to memory to achieve a simple task, it is easier to accomplish the task by looking up what is wanted. Then one can expand (spiral outward) his knowledge.
Most people are like this, task-oriented. The "Samba 3 by Example" book has been outstanding in this regard. But there is still the "Samba 3 HOWTO Collection" for those that want more of a "manual."
Now I have many friends who prefer to read manuals from cover to cover (and they remember most of it). Of course, my dyslexia creates it's own hurdle and bias.
I want to write 2 immediately: - Linux for Users - Linux Configuration Management
The first would be a 300 page book on just using Linux. From the CLI basics (but modernized for Linux) to GNOME and KDE (possibly an appendix on XFCE). Designed for Fedora Core and RHEL (including CentOS). I believe this is sorely needed for corporate users, even more so than end-users.
The second would be a 500 page book on handling the roll-out and maintanence of a Linux network. Once again, it would be for Fedora Core and RHEL (including CentOS). I believe this is also sorely needed for corporate system and network administrators.
There are countless books on Linux that are too UNIX-like in viewpoint, thinking that the user is also a sysadmin because, let's face it, that's largely who has used UNIX for so long. With Linux, there are more user aspects -- from office suites to removable devices (CD/DVDs, dongles, etc...) that are commonly used.
More on the other flip, I've come in after many open source projects have failed or are in the middle of failure because of lack of configuration management. It's just like the same problem NASA had -- just because you use COTS (commercial-off-the-shelf) components that save you 90% doesn't mean you can cut QA (quality assurance) as well. Same deal with Linux, you can save 90% of system costs, but you aren't going to save 90% on configuration management -- especially when there are a *DARTH* of books that cover it for Linux.
On Tue, 2005-08-16 at 16:18, Bryan J. Smith wrote:
Most people are like this, task-oriented. The "Samba 3 by Example" book has been outstanding in this regard. But there is still the "Samba 3 HOWTO Collection" for those that want more of a "manual."
Technical books and manuals should nearly always be written in 2 parts. One part should be a tutorial which shows step by step how to do something and gives an overview of the concepts. You'll go through that part once and never want to see it again. The 2nd part, preferably in a separate physical volume, should be the reference manual where you will look for the gory details after you know the basics and want to fine-tune something. Unix 'man' pages are the style you want for reference, but first you need to know what programs are involved, what the shell is going to do with what you type, and some other things that a tutorial approach gives. Usually you don't want both of those things at the same time.
Bryan -
Thank you for the suggestions for books. They really sound like the orientation I would enjoy.
Concerning my first computer, it was a MDS-800 by Intel used for programing the 8080 for process control. They used a subset of PL/M (subset G). This was in the 1970's.
Todd
Bryan J. Smith wrote:
Todd Cary todd@aristesoftware.com wrote:
Agreed! For me there is a distinction between "understanding" and "knowing". My 30 years experience has been in the Windows environment
I think the first instance of MS Basic was the Altair of 1976. I assume you mean your experience has been on the single-user environments of the 8080 on-ward, yes? ;->
and in comparison, Linux is much easier to understand.
Once you learn UNIX terminology, it's good 4ever! With Windows terminology, you retrain every 5+ years.
The challenge is knowing where to look or knowing which function and switch to use.
If Roblimo's new book is any indication, users want a book that is ~300 pages and teaches them how to _use_ Linux -- especially with the mass corporate adoption taking place.
I often use the term "spiral learning"; that is one starts with a task to do. Rather than having to commit reems of information to memory to achieve a simple task, it is easier to accomplish the task by looking up what is wanted. Then one can expand (spiral outward) his knowledge.
Most people are like this, task-oriented. The "Samba 3 by Example" book has been outstanding in this regard. But there is still the "Samba 3 HOWTO Collection" for those that want more of a "manual."
Now I have many friends who prefer to read manuals from cover to cover (and they remember most of it). Of course, my dyslexia creates it's own hurdle and bias.
I want to write 2 immediately:
- Linux for Users
- Linux Configuration Management
The first would be a 300 page book on just using Linux. From the CLI basics (but modernized for Linux) to GNOME and KDE (possibly an appendix on XFCE). Designed for Fedora Core and RHEL (including CentOS). I believe this is sorely needed for corporate users, even more so than end-users.
The second would be a 500 page book on handling the roll-out and maintanence of a Linux network. Once again, it would be for Fedora Core and RHEL (including CentOS). I believe this is also sorely needed for corporate system and network administrators.
There are countless books on Linux that are too UNIX-like in viewpoint, thinking that the user is also a sysadmin because, let's face it, that's largely who has used UNIX for so long. With Linux, there are more user aspects -- from office suites to removable devices (CD/DVDs, dongles, etc...) that are commonly used.
More on the other flip, I've come in after many open source projects have failed or are in the middle of failure because of lack of configuration management. It's just like the same problem NASA had -- just because you use COTS (commercial-off-the-shelf) components that save you 90% doesn't mean you can cut QA (quality assurance) as well. Same deal with Linux, you can save 90% of system costs, but you aren't going to save 90% on configuration management -- especially when there are a *DARTH* of books that cover it for Linux.
On Tue, 2005-08-16 at 08:10 -0700, Todd Cary wrote:
I did a minimal install and then with yum groupinstall, installed http, ftp and samba servers. However the gui server settings are not displayed for these servers. Is there a package that I need to install or do I need to change a setting(s) in a file?
In reading "man yum" I did not see a way to find out what rpm's are installed with each group, or maybe I just did not understand the man pages. Can this be done?
Todd
You can develop a list off all groups with the command:
yum grouplist
Then pick a group ... in my case I will XFCE-4.2
yum groupinfo
-
Bryan J. Smith -
Chris Mauritz -
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams -
Johnny Hughes -
Les Mikesell -
Steven Vishoot -
Todd Cary