Folks,
I threatened to do this a few months ago.... Here's a first draft. I was thinking of it as something that might get posted the beginning of the month, or sent to someone who drops in with "it doesn't work!!!".
PLEASE feel free, no, *please* rip, shred, tear, rend this, and help me make it usable.
mark
#####################################################################
1. This mailing list is here for folks around the world to share knowledge about CentOS and Linux. This is not a paid tech support organization - if you want that, buy a RedHat subscription.
2. We are not here to do your job for you. If you think we should, perhaps you should pay us. Before asking us, have you: a) read the documentation (RTFM)? b) checked the CentOS wiki for howtos and FAQs? i) http://centos.org, and click on "information" ii) http://wiki.centos.org/ c) googled for documents on the Web?
3. Many of your problems have been discussed and solved. Feel free to ask for a link to the solution, or the discussion.
4. When you post a question, a) mention the version of CentOS, and of any other software; b) give a full explanation of the problem, not merely "networking is broke, how do I fix it", or something like that, and c) Include error messages if possible. Do *not* put pages of them - edit so that you give only a few lines of example, or only the relevant message lines, not, say, the entire dump of dmesg.
On 7/30/2010 9:35 AM, m.roth@5-cent.us wrote:
Folks,
I threatened to do this a few months ago.... Here's a first draft. Iwas thinking of it as something that might get posted the beginning of the month, or sent to someone who drops in with "it doesn't work!!!".
PLEASE feel free, no, *please* rip, shred, tear, rend this, and helpme make it usable.
I don't quite see the point of posting stuff to try to control what people who don't read before posting will do... But, if you want to make the futile effort, the only thing that matters to me is that the subject line is written carefully to reflect the topic. It is easy enough to ignore off-topic postings as long as the subject identifies them as such. A FAQ on how to answer might be more useful, pointing out that the list is archived in various places and the replies will come up in future searches, thus the replies that tell people to search for themselves instead of including the definitive link to an answer not only are useless to the requester but interfere with everyone's ability to search later.
On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 10:35 AM, m.roth@5-cent.us wrote:
I threatened to do this a few months ago.... Here's a first draft. I was thinking of it as something that might get posted the beginning of the month, or sent to someone who drops in with "it doesn't work!!!".
PLEASE feel free, no, *please* rip, shred, tear, rend this, and help me make it usable.
#####################################################################
- This mailing list is here for folks around the world to share knowledge
about CentOS and Linux. This is not a paid tech support organization - if you want that, buy a RedHat subscription.
- We are not here to do your job for you. If you think we should, perhaps
you should pay us. Before asking us, have you: a) read the documentation (RTFM)? b) checked the CentOS wiki for howtos and FAQs? i) http://centos.org, and click on "information" ii) http://wiki.centos.org/ c) googled for documents on the Web?
- Many of your problems have been discussed and solved. Feel free to ask
for a link to the solution, or the discussion.
- When you post a question,
a) mention the version of CentOS, and of any other software; b) give a full explanation of the problem, not merely "networking is broke, how do I fix it", or something like that, and c) Include error messages if possible. Do *not* put pages of them - edit so that you give only a few lines of example, or only the relevant message lines, not, say, the entire dump of dmesg.
First the negative comments.
In (1), "if you want that, buy a RedHat subscription" is unnecessary.
In (2), "If you think we should, perhaps you should pay us" is really unnecessary.
Second the positive comments.
Overall, a very good undertaking.
In (4) - use a meaningful subject - separate opinion from fact - use a pastebin to post a full log
First of all, I want to thank everyone who's responded so far - keep them emails coming, boys and girls! (Seriously - I mean it.)
Next: Tom H wrote:
On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 10:35 AM, m.roth@5-cent.us wrote:
I threatened to do this a few months ago.... Here's a first draft. I was thinking of it as something that might get posted the beginning of the month, or sent to someone who drops in with "it doesn't work!!!".
PLEASE feel free, no, *please* rip, shred, tear, rend this, and help me make it usable.
#####################################################################
- This mailing list is here for folks around the world to share
knowledge about CentOS and Linux. This is not a paid tech support
organization
- if you want that, buy a RedHat subscription.
- We are not here to do your job for you. If you think we should,
<snip>
First the negative comments.
In (1), "if you want that, buy a RedHat subscription" is unnecessary.
Why?
In (2), "If you think we should, perhaps you should pay us" is really unnecessary.
Again, why? *Part* of the reason are the folks who come on, and give us either a Windows user type of complaint (it doesn't work!), or who seem to want us to write them a step-by-step for what they need to do (and some of them have had RHCE and other certs to their sigfile, which tells us how solid those certs are), who obviously have never even *tried* to look for the answers.
Some of us get irritated with that.
Second the positive comments.
Overall, a very good undertaking.
Again, thanks. I'm thinking of this in the way of the FAQs we had/have on usenet.
In (4)
- use a meaningful subject
- separate opinion from fact
- use a pastebin to post a full log
What's the link to pastebin (I always just cut&paste, and only give a few relevant lines, with all the other kruft cut out, so I've never needed it)?
mark
On 7/30/2010 3:05 PM, m.roth@5-cent.us wrote:
First of all, I want to thank everyone who's responded so far - keep them emails coming, boys and girls! (Seriously - I mean it.)
Next: Tom H wrote:
On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 10:35 AM, m.roth@5-cent.us wrote:
I threatened to do this a few months ago.... Here's a first draft. I was thinking of it as something that might get posted the beginning of the month, or sent to someone who drops in with "it doesn't work!!!".
PLEASE feel free, no, *please* rip, shred, tear, rend this, and help me make it usable.
#####################################################################
- This mailing list is here for folks around the world to share
knowledge about CentOS and Linux. This is not a paid tech support
organization
- if you want that, buy a RedHat subscription.
- We are not here to do your job for you. If you think we should,
<snip> > First the negative comments. > > In (1), "if you want that, buy a RedHat subscription" is unnecessary. Why? > In (2), "If you think we should, perhaps you should pay us" is really > unnecessary. Again, why? *Part* of the reason are the folks who come on, and give us either a Windows user type of complaint (it doesn't work!), or who seem to want us to write them a step-by-step for what they need to do (and some of them have had RHCE and other certs to their sigfile, which tells us how solid those certs are), who obviously have never even *tried* to look for the answers.
Some of us get irritated with that.
Agreed, but the phrases that Tom wanted removed give a whiny/defensive tone. Keep the main points, just remove those phrases and stick to telling the poster what we want him to do.
Second the positive comments.
Overall, a very good undertaking.
Again, thanks. I'm thinking of this in the way of the FAQs we had/have on usenet.
In (4)
- use a meaningful subject
- separate opinion from fact
- use a pastebin to post a full log
What's the link to pastebin (I always just cut&paste, and only give a few relevant lines, with all the other kruft cut out, so I've never needed it)?
Umm.... That would be www.pastebin.com... :)
On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 3:05 PM, m.roth@5-cent.us wrote:
First of all, I want to thank everyone who's responded so far - keep them emails coming, boys and girls! (Seriously - I mean it.)
You're welcome.
Next: Tom H wrote:
On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 10:35 AM, m.roth@5-cent.us wrote:
I threatened to do this a few months ago.... Here's a first draft. I was thinking of it as something that might get posted the beginning of the month, or sent to someone who drops in with "it doesn't work!!!".
PLEASE feel free, no, *please* rip, shred, tear, rend this, and help me make it usable.
#####################################################################
- This mailing list is here for folks around the world to share
knowledge about CentOS and Linux. This is not a paid tech support
organization
- if you want that, buy a RedHat subscription.
- We are not here to do your job for you. If you think we should,
<snip> > First the negative comments. > > In (1), "if you want that, buy a RedHat subscription" is unnecessary.
Why?
In (2), "If you think we should, perhaps you should pay us" is really unnecessary.
Again, why? *Part* of the reason are the folks who come on, and give us either a Windows user type of complaint (it doesn't work!), or who seem to want us to write them a step-by-step for what they need to do (and some of them have had RHCE and other certs to their sigfile, which tells us how solid those certs are), who obviously have never even *tried* to look for the answers. Some of us get irritated with that.
I understand and share your frustration(s) but both these sentences seem too petty to be in an informative email.
In (4)
- use a meaningful subject
- separate opinion from fact
- use a pastebin to post a full log
What's the link to pastebin (I always just cut&paste, and only give a few relevant lines, with all the other kruft cut out, so I've never needed it)?
Sometimes what the person asking for help selects to post is irrelevant so a full log output on http://pastebin.centos.org/ can be useful.
m.roth@5-cent.us wrote:
- We are not here to do your job for you. If you think we should, perhaps
you should pay us. Before asking us, have you: a) read the documentation (RTFM)? b) checked the CentOS wiki for howtos and FAQs? i) http://centos.org, and click on "information" ii) http://wiki.centos.org/ c) googled for documents on the Web?
Line c should include a link - thus: http://google.com/linux
#####################################################################
- This mailing list is here for folks around the world to share knowledge
about CentOS and Linux. This is not a paid tech support organization - if you want that, buy a RedHat subscription.
- We are not here to do your job for you. If you think we should, perhaps
you should pay us. Before asking us, have you: a) read the documentation (RTFM)? b) checked the CentOS wiki for howtos and FAQs? i) http://centos.org, and click on "information" ii) http://wiki.centos.org/ c) googled for documents on the Web?
- Many of your problems have been discussed and solved. Feel free to ask
for a link to the solution, or the discussion.
I prospose rephrasing the above FAQ entries in a more neutral tone:
1) What are my Centos support options?
Generally speaking, you have three options:
1) The centos-users mailing list. Developers, systems administrators and end-users all contribute on the mailing list on a best effort basis. Questions are answered as people's time and experience allow. This is a volunteer effort and there are no gaurutees anything will be answered or answered in a give time frame, though we do our best and historically are quite good.
It is strongly recommended you search the archives first, as you can get an answer much faster and we can focus our time on new issues and projects.
2) The Centos IRC channel. The channel can be found on irc.freenode.net, channel #centos
Same ground rules as the mailing list.
3) Commercial support. There are number of commercial support providers. They are best found by a search on your favorite search engine. Alternatively switching over to Redhat Enterprise Linux (RHEL) and purchasing a support contract is a good option.
If you require answers or support at a moment's notice, this is your best option.
Insert links to mailing lists and other resources approprate....
Just my two cents.
Oops, some copyediting of my previous post and the addition of a managed services option to my FAQ suggestion follows:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I prospose rephrasing the above FAQ entries in a more neutral tone:
1) What are my Centos support options?
Generally speaking, you have three options:
1) The centos-users mailing list. Developers, systems administrators and end-users all contribute on the mailing list on a best effort basis. Questions are answered as people's time and experience allow. This is a volunteer effort and there are no guaruntees anything will be answered or answered in a give time frame, though we do our best and historically are quite good.
It is strongly recommended you search the archives first, as you can get an answer much faster and we can focus our time on new issues and projects.
2) The Centos IRC channel. The channel can be found on irc.freenode.net, channel #centos
Same ground rules as the mailing list.
3) Commercial support. There are a number of commercial support providers. They are best found by a search on your favorite search engine. If you are open to not running your own systems then subscribing to a managed hosting provider who offers Centos as a platform is also a good option. Again, refer to your favorite search engine. Alternatively switching over to Redhat Enterprise Linux (RHEL) and purchasing a support contract is a good option.
If you require answers or support at a moment's notice, this is your best option.
Insert links to mailing lists and other resources approprate....
I do think it is worth the effort to get this FAQ out. Just because some users will ask questions without reading does not mean they all will. More importantly, is it possible to get this FAQ sent to people immediately when they subscribe to the mailing list? That would get us a lot of bang for the buck.
Just my two cents.
Geoff Galitz wrote:
Oops, some copyediting of my previous post and the addition of a managed services option to my FAQ suggestion follows:
A couple more spelling errors to correct:
are no guaruntees anything will be answered or answered in a give time
guarantees
Insert links to mailing lists and other resources approprate....
appropriate
Bob McConnell N2SPP
On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 5:06 AM, Geoff Galitz geoff@galitz.org wrote:
Generally speaking, you have three options:
1) The centos-users mailing list.
2) The Centos IRC channel.
3) Commercial support.
Insert links to mailing lists and other resources approprate....
As a mailing list user, you may not be aware of the CentOS Forums... Their FAQ & Readme can be found here:
https://www.centos.org/modules/newbb/viewforum.php?forum=47
At any rate, let's not forget about the CentOS wiki Help page:
http://wiki.centos.org/Documentation
Akemi
On Sat, 2010-07-31 at 06:18 -0700, Akemi Yagi wrote:
On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 5:06 AM, Geoff Galitz geoff@galitz.org wrote:
Generally speaking, you have three options:
- The centos-users mailing list.
- The Centos IRC channel.
- Commercial support.
Insert links to mailing lists and other resources approprate....
As a mailing list user, you may not be aware of the CentOS Forums... Their FAQ & Readme can be found here:
https://www.centos.org/modules/newbb/viewforum.php?forum=47
At any rate, let's not forget about the CentOS wiki Help page:
http://wiki.centos.org/Documentation
Akemi
--- What about yalls awsome script you guys have?
https://www.centos.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=25128&forum=...
John
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Akemi Yagi -
Bob McConnell -
Bowie Bailey -
Geoff Galitz -
JohnS -
Les Mikesell -
m.roth＠5-cent.us -
Michael Klinosky -
Tom H