Ralph Angenendt wrote:

On Mon, 2009-09-14 at 16:43 +0700, David Suhendrik wrote:

...

The sound is bad,

/ Lance vanished from the project some time in 2008. Everybody needs time off from projects from time to time, so there was no real need to worry about that. What there was to worry about is the following: Lance is the only one, who can make active changes to the centos.org domain, as he “owns it”. Nobody else in the team is able to add nameservers, for instance. Recently he put an anonymizing service on the domain, so that nobody from the outside can see who that domain belongs to. /

Ummm. That mostly has been resolved around a month ago, you might want to check dates on things you mail somewhere.

Ralph

---

CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos

Thanks Ralph,

I'm post here, just for make sure... Andd may be anyone don't know about issue..

I love CentOS, and not interest other distro's.

Christoph Maser wrote:

Am Montag, den 14.09.2009, 11:48 +0200 schrieb Ralph Angenendt:

...

On Mon, 2009-09-14 at 16:43 +0700, David Suhendrik wrote:

...

The sound is bad,

/ Lance vanished from the project some time in 2008. Everybody needs time off from projects from time to time, so there was no real need to worry about that. What there was to worry about is the following: Lance is the only one, who can make active changes to the centos.org domain, as he “owns it”. Nobody else in the team is able to add nameservers, for instance. Recently he put an anonymizing service on the domain, so that nobody from the outside can see who that domain belongs to. /

Ummm. That mostly has been resolved around a month ago, you might want to check dates on things you mail somewhere.

Ralph

Btw the homepage says:

" More information will follow soon. [..] Last Update: August 1, 2009 04:34 UTC by Donavan Nelson"

Today is September 14th, so what does "soon" mean here?

Chris

financial.com AG

Munich head office/Hauptsitz München: Maria-Probst-Str. 19 | 80939 München | Germany Frankfurt branch office/Niederlassung Frankfurt: Messeturm | Friedrich-Ebert-Anlage 49 | 60327 Frankfurt | Germany Management board/Vorstand: Dr. Steffen Boehnert (CEO/Vorsitzender) | Dr. Alexis Eisenhofer | Dr. Yann Samson | Matthias Wiederwach Supervisory board/Aufsichtsrat: Dr. Dr. Ernst zur Linden (chairman/Vorsitzender) Register court/Handelsregister: Munich – HRB 128 972 | Sales tax ID number/St.Nr.: DE205 370 553 _______________________________________________ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos

=D, Someone make me confused, and just a make sure here... I'm so sorry for this...

On Mon, 2009-09-14 at 13:42 -0500, Ron Blizzard wrote:

On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 5:35 AM, David Suhendrik david@pnyet.web.id wrote:

...

=D, Someone make me confused, and just a make sure here... I'm so sorry for this...

I was worried too, on the day I first saw the message. But I found (on that day) that the worst that would have happened would have been a name change for the distribution -- and now even that issue is no longer a problem.

To all:

It's natural for folks to worry, somteimes needlessly, when disruptions are discovered. But one should not let their emotions drive their behavior - i.e. worry, in and of itself, is not a useful strategy.

Rather, taek that initial "worry", understand what causes it, mix it with your knowledge of the project's longer-term hisory, your judgment of the individuals (developed over years of watching them), sit back, have a cold beverage and engage the "patience" switch.

Wory should continue only if you see activity counter to desires/expectations. It should not be bolstered by an (apparent) lack of activity as that is only the results of necessary behind-the-scenes machinations, delays as multiple responsibilities compete for time and attention, etc. Of course, if *extended* periods (depending on your level of subservience to the "immediate gratification" impulse) occurs, then one should rationally switch modes to "worry" again.

To the Centos crew, you should have patience with the occasional users that are unable to exercise such patience because, as we all know, there is nothing more worrisome or louder than an extended silence.

Perhaps an aperiodic post, taking very little time, of the small steps taken/accomplished would help assuage the savage beast?

Ralph Angenendt wrote:

On Mon, 2009-09-14 at 12:01 +0200, Christoph Maser wrote:

...

Am Montag, den 14.09.2009, 11:48 +0200 schrieb Ralph Angenendt:

...

Ummm. That mostly has been resolved around a month ago, you might want to check dates on things you mail somewhere.

Btw the homepage says:

" More information will follow soon. [..] Last Update: August 1, 2009 04:34 UTC by Donavan Nelson"

Today is September 14th, so what does "soon" mean here?

5.3 soon? >:)

Ralph

---

CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos

I'm litle [kids] hihihih

On 09/14/2009 07:28 AM, Johnny Hughes wrote:

<snip>

The CentOS project has the domain names in question, we have released 4.8, we have some packages from 5.4 in question, and everything is 100% solved from a technical stand point.

The above SHOULD have said "packages from 5.4 in QA testing" ... nothing is in question. Dang spell checking :D

On 09/14/2009 07:42 AM, Christoph Maser wrote:

Am Montag, den 14.09.2009, 14:28 +0200 schrieb Johnny Hughes:

...

On 09/14/2009 05:01 AM, Christoph Maser wrote:

...

Am Montag, den 14.09.2009, 11:48 +0200 schrieb Ralph Angenendt:

...

On Mon, 2009-09-14 at 16:43 +0700, David Suhendrik wrote:

...

The sound is bad,

/ Lance vanished from the project some time in 2008. Everybody needs time off from projects from time to time, so there was no real need to worry about that. What there was to worry about is the following: Lance is the only one, who can make active changes to the centos.org domain, as he “owns it”. Nobody else in the team is able to add nameservers, for instance. Recently he put an anonymizing service on the domain, so that nobody from the outside can see who that domain belongs to. /

Ummm. That mostly has been resolved around a month ago, you might want to check dates on things you mail somewhere.

Ralph

Btw the homepage says:

" More information will follow soon. [..] Last Update: August 1, 2009 04:34 UTC by Donavan Nelson"

Today is September 14th, so what does "soon" mean here?

Chris

Soon means we will post when something changes.

The last update is still correct.

The CentOS project has the domain names in question, we have released 4.8, we have some packages from 5.4 in question, and everything is 100% solved from a technical stand point.

Basically CentOS is exactly what it was before any of this happened from a technical standpoint.

Updates to packages are happening within 24 hours, 5.4 is on track and will soon be pushed soon.

If you want a multi-billion dollar corporation behind your Linux distribution, then use RHEL nad pay for it.

If you want what you have gotten from CentOS for the last 5 years, you are getting that now.

Do we have to have this conversation again?

Thanks, Johnny Hughes

Actually I was much more interested in non technical info. Like what happend to donations in the past. How will donations in the future be used/handled. Will there be a cashier etc. etc.

Chris

Do you ask Slackware or Gentoo or Debian or Ubuntu to explain the same things?

We are working out those details right now.

However, we are NOT accepting monetary donations at this point. We will not accept monetary donations until there is something in place where more than one person has to approve any spending and some kind of committee is in place to manage incoming and outgoing funds.

We have not worked out all the details of exactly how we will do this at this point. We will before we accept any monetary donations in the future.

However, I am not sure WHY you want to know these things. We do not require anyone to donate to the project to use the software. We do have expenses (like DVDs to hand out, posters to print, rooms to pay for at Linux conferences, bandwidth and machines for some services, etc.). We would not spend any donations on anything other than those things or to pay developer expenses to maintain hardware and software required to produce CentOS (replace a hard drive that fails, buy a network switch, replace a bad power supply, pay for bandwidth, etc.)

Thanks, Johnny Hughes

However, we are NOT accepting monetary donations at this point. We will not accept monetary donations until there is something in place where more than one person has to approve any spending and some kind of committee is in place to manage incoming and outgoing funds.

ooh, ouch. A committee that is geographically located (or at least the approve spending part). I confess that I know nothing about how that kind of problem is dealt with though.

Centos is becoming more and more like an organisation. Will a charter be set up too? (is there one? :-D)

I see growing pains coming your way. Thanks for all the hard work.

Am Montag, den 14.09.2009, 15:11 +0200 schrieb Johnny Hughes:

However, I am not sure WHY you want to know these things. We do not require anyone to donate to the project to use the software. We do have expenses (like DVDs to hand out, posters to print, rooms to pay for at Linux conferences, bandwidth and machines for some services, etc.). We would not spend any donations on anything other than those things or to pay developer expenses to maintain hardware and software required to produce CentOS (replace a hard drive that fails, buy a network switch, replace a bad power supply, pay for bandwidth, etc.)

Thanks, Johnny Hughes

I want to know it beacause I considered donating but my personal expectations for transparency are not met. (That does not only apply to the financial things)

Chris

financial.com AG

Munich head office/Hauptsitz München: Maria-Probst-Str. 19 | 80939 München | Germany Frankfurt branch office/Niederlassung Frankfurt: Messeturm | Friedrich-Ebert-Anlage 49 | 60327 Frankfurt | Germany Management board/Vorstand: Dr. Steffen Boehnert (CEO/Vorsitzender) | Dr. Alexis Eisenhofer | Dr. Yann Samson | Matthias Wiederwach Supervisory board/Aufsichtsrat: Dr. Dr. Ernst zur Linden (chairman/Vorsitzender) Register court/Handelsregister: Munich – HRB 128 972 | Sales tax ID number/St.Nr.: DE205 370 553

On Mon, 2009-09-14 at 09:12 -0500, Johnny Hughes wrote:

On 09/14/2009 08:51 AM, Christoph Maser wrote:

...

Am Montag, den 14.09.2009, 15:11 +0200 schrieb Johnny Hughes:

...

However, I am not sure WHY you want to know these things. We do not require anyone to donate to the project to use the software. We do have expenses (like DVDs to hand out, posters to print, rooms to pay for at Linux conferences, bandwidth and machines for some services, etc.). We would not spend any donations on anything other than those things or to pay developer expenses to maintain hardware and software required to produce CentOS (replace a hard drive that fails, buy a network switch, replace a bad power supply, pay for bandwidth, etc.)

Thanks, Johnny Hughes

I want to know it beacause I considered donating but my personal expectations for transparency are not met. (That does not only apply to the financial things)

Absolutely, and you are certainly entitled to that opinion.

I have already assured everyone that we will not accept donations until we have something official in place with an approval committee to audit all incoming funds and agree on all expenditures. This committee will have full visibility.

As soon as we have details of exactly how that will happen, we will post them.

I may be a few more weeks as we work through the details.

---- you guys have my full confidence.

Craig

On Mon, 14 Sep 2009, William Warren wrote:

right now they don't HAVE to disclose as they do not have any kind of US based npo that would force them to do so. We can inquire all we want to but they don't have to answer anything.

'they' who run a non profit under US law of which I am aware have no general obligation to give the time of day to anyoue -- Feel free to ask at the local Elk's lodge about their back room poker party profits, and I am pretty sure you'll get a tossed out on your ear

Similarly, a formal public charity recognized as exempt under section 170 of the US Tax Code, has no such general duty -- there is a right of inspection of their form 990 in certain cases. but that is about it under US federal law

State law may and does vary [my legal career started doing oversight, investigation after complaint, and certain nonimal regulation of such entities as a staff attorney for my local state attorney general] -- but geeks think that the law is both obvious and systematically logical and capable of lay comprehension. It is not

Lawyers in the US are generally required to graduate at the 4 year college level, then 3 years of law school, and then additional study in preparation for state specific bar examinations, as well as a nationwide multistate section.

Even then the field is so broad that functionally one apprentices for 5 to 7 years as an associate, before being considered worthwhile enough to trust with clients without supervision. Intellectual property matters (trademarks at the federal level, patents) have additional testing and admission requirements

The life of the law has not been logic; it has been experience. The law embodies the story of a nation's development...it cannot be dealt with as if it contained the axioms and corollaries of a book of mathematics. -- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.

Talk to your lawyer for a quote if you wish to buy legal advice and opinions upon which you may rely, and that he or she will stand behind and warrant

---------------start disclaimer-------------------

I_A_AL, but not your lawyer. I offer legal advice and formal opinion only within the confines of a previously established and explicit attorney-client relationship where privilege may be had; and NEVER on a public list server.

----------------end disclaimers ------------------

That said, let me go specific and further as well: As to the project I will in no way purport to 'represent' it as to legal matters, as I lack distance and really can only wear one hat. I tried being the client and the lawyer once 30 years ago as to one non-profit I helped found and sat on the board of, and it just does not work

with kind regards,

-- Russ herrold

On 09/16/2009 10:38 AM, Benjamin Franz wrote:

R P Herrold wrote:

...

On Mon, 14 Sep 2009, William Warren wrote:

...

right now they don't HAVE to disclose as they do not have any kind of US based npo that would force them to do so. We can inquire all we want to but they don't have to answer anything.

'they' who run a non profit under US law of which I am aware have no general obligation to give the time of day to anyoue -- Feel free to ask at the local Elk's lodge about their back room poker party profits, and I am pretty sure you'll get a tossed out on your ear

[...]

This isn't about law anyway: It's about trust.

For CentOS to continue to be a success, trust has to be maintained. Without trust, resources and community will disappear.

I like CentOS. It meets my needs just about perfectly with its balance of stability and features (not to mention price ;) ). Don't take this as criticism of what has been a hugely successful enterprise. There are many people like myself who will be willing to donate more time/money/equipment/resources once a better level of transparency has been achieved. I am confident that it will be. The CentOS team seems to be working hard on it and I expect that it will just be a matter of time. I trust them, and I am grateful to them for the work they have done and continue to do.

But, it is unhelpful when egos get in the way of communication. Lashing out at people who want to know what steps towards transparency are being taken just alienates the community. The FOSS community is well known for its tendency to eat its young. Try not to give in to the impulse, no matter how irritating, or even ungrateful, the questions can seem.

;)

I STILL do not understand why anyone would care what CentOS does with money donated by people who used the product and wanted to donate.

If we were having wild beer parties every week ... as long as the packages are built, compared, signed, and released on time, what difference does it make?

If you don't trust the organization, then how in the world do you use it's software.

If you do trust the software, then what difference does it make how money is spent or saved?

You trust us enough to use our software for free ... but not enough to donate? Then so be it ... that is what open source is all about.

But open source is NOT about the users running the company. It is about software freedom.

Is CENTOS really dead or just rumor?

I am so scare. our LINUX boxes are all on CENTOS

--- 09/9/16 (三)，Christoph Maser cmr@financial.com 寫道：

寄件者: Christoph Maser cmr@financial.com 主旨: Re: [CentOS] [Found] CentOS is dead, long live CentOS 收件者: "CentOS mailing list" centos@centos.org 日期: 2009年9月16日,三,下午2:12 Am Mittwoch, den 16.09.2009, 19:27 +0200 schrieb Johnny Hughes:

...

I STILL do not understand why anyone would care what

CentOS does with

...

money donated by people who used the product and

wanted to donate.

...

If we were having wild beer parties every week ... as

long as the

...

packages are built, compared, signed, and released on

time, what

...

difference does it make?

If you don't trust the organization, then how in the

world do you use

...

it's software.

If you do trust the software, then what difference

does it make how

...

money is spent or saved?

You trust us enough to use our software for free ...

but not enough to

...

donate?  Then so be it ... that is what open

source is all about.

...

But open source is NOT about the users running the

company.  It is about

...

software freedom.

Actually i did not intend this to get so "money" biased. What i really dislike is the "check here for updates" unchanged for 1+ month on the front page. I don't want to run anything it just looks awkward to me.

Chris

financial.com AG

Munich head office/Hauptsitz München: Maria-Probst-Str. 19 | 80939 München | Germany Frankfurt branch office/Niederlassung Frankfurt: Messeturm | Friedrich-Ebert-Anlage 49 | 60327 Frankfurt | Germany Management board/Vorstand: Dr. Steffen Boehnert (CEO/Vorsitzender) | Dr. Alexis Eisenhofer | Dr. Yann Samson | Matthias Wiederwach Supervisory board/Aufsichtsrat: Dr. Dr. Ernst zur Linden (chairman/Vorsitzender) Register court/Handelsregister: Munich – HRB 128 972 | Sales tax ID number/St.Nr.: DE205 370 553 _______________________________________________ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos

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On Wed, 2009-09-16 at 12:27 -0500, Johnny Hughes wrote:

On 09/16/2009 10:38 AM, Benjamin Franz wrote:

...

R P Herrold wrote:

...

On Mon, 14 Sep 2009, William Warren wrote:

...

right now they don't HAVE to disclose as they do not have any kind of US based npo that would force them to do so. We can inquire all we want to but they don't have to answer anything.

'they' who run a non profit under US law of which I am aware have no general obligation to give the time of day to anyoue -- Feel free to ask at the local Elk's lodge about their back room poker party profits, and I am pretty sure you'll get a tossed out on your ear

[...]

This isn't about law anyway: It's about trust.

For CentOS to continue to be a success, trust has to be maintained. Without trust, resources and community will disappear.

I like CentOS. It meets my needs just about perfectly with its balance of stability and features (not to mention price ;) ). Don't take this as criticism of what has been a hugely successful enterprise. There are many people like myself who will be willing to donate more time/money/equipment/resources once a better level of transparency has been achieved. I am confident that it will be. The CentOS team seems to be working hard on it and I expect that it will just be a matter of time. I trust them, and I am grateful to them for the work they have done and continue to do.

But, it is unhelpful when egos get in the way of communication. Lashing out at people who want to know what steps towards transparency are being taken just alienates the community. The FOSS community is well known for its tendency to eat its young. Try not to give in to the impulse, no matter how irritating, or even ungrateful, the questions can seem.

;)

I STILL do not understand why anyone would care what CentOS does with money donated by people who used the product and wanted to donate.

If we were having wild beer parties every week ... as long as the packages are built, compared, signed, and released on time, what difference does it make?

If you don't trust the organization, then how in the world do you use it's software.

If you do trust the software, then what difference does it make how money is spent or saved?

You trust us enough to use our software for free ... but not enough to donate? Then so be it ... that is what open source is all about.

But open source is NOT about the users running the company. It is about software freedom.

I didn't raise the issue, but I can certainly understand people wanting to donate to support the resources that support the effort, which *may* include wild beer parties every night. But maybe some are interested in knowing that most dollars are used as *they* had in mind when they sent the donation.

To understand *that* attitude does not seem hard to me.

I understand your, but don't happen to agrre that it is *the* proper view.

<snip sig stuff>

On Wed, 2009-09-16 at 19:15 +0100, Karanbir Singh wrote:

On 09/16/2009 06:27 PM, Johnny Hughes wrote:

...

If we were having wild beer parties every week .

*WHAT*!!!! beer parties ? Where ? When ? will there be food as well ?

You missed the last one. Johnny spent the last dollar and is now running a charitable fund-raiser and pan-handling out on the traffic island to get money for more. Them Tx boys *now* how to live!

Get on his mailing list! ;-))

----- Original Message ----

From: Karanbir Singh mail-lists@karan.org To: CentOS mailing list centos@centos.org Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 1:15:59 PM Subject: Re: [CentOS] [Found] CentOS is dead, long live CentOS

On 09/16/2009 06:27 PM, Johnny Hughes wrote:

...

If we were having wild beer parties every week .

*WHAT*!!!! beer parties ? Where ? When ? will there be food as well ?

-- Karanbir Singh : http://www.karan.org/ : 2522219@icq _______________________________________________ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos

huh...wait a minute Karanbir has a sense of humor? :-D

On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 1:19 PM, Neil Aggarwal neil@jammconsulting.com wrote:

It makes a difference to me.  I am not going to give my hard earned dollars to people to waste.  I have to know they are going to do something constructive with it.

Okay, I understand your sentiment, but I think Johnny's point was that you are *already* getting the product you sending donations to support.

"...as long as the packages are built, compared, signed, and released on time, what difference does it make?"

So, I'm not sure what you mean by "wasting it?"

But this is all moot anyhow. You can't currently donate money to CentOS and the reason for that is that the developers want to set up the donation process so that it is different than it was. Just give it a little time.

William Warren wrote:

Why do we want to know? Because of one person's disappearance the project nearly went boom. Because by your own admission(the devs) the funds were NOT going to further the project. If you can't get a thicker skin maybe you need a vacation.

Perhaps it's reversed? There's an old saying, you get what you pay for. If CentOS dropped off the map tomorrow it really wouldn't impact myself all that much despite having roughly 350 systems running it. I'd just slowly migrate to something else.

If your not prepared to face that possibility perhaps your better off with a commercially backed distribution(or commercial UNIX), while the chances of that happening are certainly not zero they are often quite a bit smaller than a small community driven org.

nate (CentOS user for ~4 years, Debian user for ~11)