hi all,
after many years of working almost exclusively with Windows servers I am trying to switch to CentOS.
I have a couple of books which were written for CentOS 5, but many (basic) things do not apply to CentOS 7 anymore, which is very confusing.
Internet resources suffer from the same problem.
for example, one of the books shows a Services configuration tool, which should be accessible from System > Administration > Server > Services, but I don't even have a System top menu anymore. the closest thing I have is Applications > System Tools but there is no Services applet there.
also, I am trying to set some shortcuts to the Desktop, and preferably pin them to the Taskbar if such an option exists, but in vain.
using Gnome 3.8.4 BTW.
any ideas? advice? TIA!
On Wed, October 8, 2014 10:51 am, Igal @ getRailo.org wrote:
hi all,
after many years of working almost exclusively with Windows servers I am trying to switch to CentOS.
I have a couple of books which were written for CentOS 5, but many (basic) things do not apply to CentOS 7 anymore, which is very confusing.
Internet resources suffer from the same problem.
for example, one of the books shows a Services configuration tool, which should be accessible from System > Administration > Server > Services, but I don't even have a System top menu anymore. the closest thing I have is Applications > System Tools but there is no Services applet there.
also, I am trying to set some shortcuts to the Desktop, and preferably pin them to the Taskbar if such an option exists, but in vain.
using Gnome 3.8.4 BTW.
any ideas? advice? TIA!
Someone had mentioned on this list the following RedHat Enterprise 7 (and as you know CentOS is binary replica of RedHat Enterprise with replaced art work):
https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-US/Red_Hat_Enterprise_Linux/7/htm...
This covers CentOS 7 system administration sufficiently well for me (but I work with Linux and Unix for over 1.5 decades...).
The documentation you have found for older systems is imminently different. The following is _MY_ opinion which should not be confused for consensus on this list. The truth is that with release 7 RedHat made a big step away from being "Unix-like" system towards "M$ Windows-like". Which is regretful, as this is not the first step, yet the most prominent one. So, if you decided to walk away from Windows, after you master Linux (or maybe simultaneously with starting it), take a look at Unix successors such as FreeBSD (most suitable for servers IMHO, some may recommend OpenBSD for servers, my preference is FreeBSD), NetBSD (most rich with what is ported to build and run on it), PC-BSD - based on FreeBSD, yet made easiest to install workstation whith GUI interface (X11) support.
Just my $0.02
Valeri
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Valeri Galtsev Sr System Administrator Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics University of Chicago Phone: 773-702-4247 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
On 10/8/2014 9:13 AM, Valeri Galtsev wrote:
Someone had mentioned on this list the following RedHat Enterprise 7 (and as you know CentOS is binary replica of RedHat Enterprise with replaced art work):
https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-US/Red_Hat_Enterprise_Linux/7/htm...
so if I buy RHEL 7 books everything should work as in the book? part of the problem for me is that there aren't many books about CentOS, and the ones I found are a few years old
This covers CentOS 7 system administration sufficiently well for me (but I work with Linux and Unix for over 1.5 decades...).
So, if you decided to walk away from Windows, after you master Linux (or maybe simultaneously with starting it), take a look at Unix successors such as FreeBSD (most suitable for servers IMHO, some may recommend OpenBSD for servers, my preference is FreeBSD), NetBSD (most rich with what is ported to build and run on it), PC-BSD - based on FreeBSD, yet made easiest to install workstation whith GUI interface (X11) support.
I understand, but this is primarily for servers for emails, web, etc., and it is my understanding that CentOS is one of the better distributions for that kind of stuff.
Just my $0.02
Valeri
Thank you for your 2 :)
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Valeri Galtsev Sr System Administrator Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics University of Chicago Phone: 773-702-4247 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ _______________________________________________ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
On Wed, October 8, 2014 11:18 am, Igal @ getRailo.org wrote:
On 10/8/2014 9:13 AM, Valeri Galtsev wrote:
Someone had mentioned on this list the following RedHat Enterprise 7 (and as you know CentOS is binary replica of RedHat Enterprise with replaced art work):
https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-US/Red_Hat_Enterprise_Linux/7/htm...
so if I buy RHEL 7 books everything should work as in the book? part of the problem for me is that there aren't many books about CentOS, and the ones I found are a few years old
This covers CentOS 7 system administration sufficiently well for me (but I work with Linux and Unix for over 1.5 decades...).
So, if you decided to walk away from Windows, after you master Linux (or maybe simultaneously with starting it), take a look at Unix successors such as FreeBSD (most suitable for servers IMHO, some may recommend OpenBSD for servers, my preference is FreeBSD), NetBSD (most rich with what is ported to build and run on it), PC-BSD - based on FreeBSD, yet made easiest to install workstation whith GUI interface (X11) support.
I understand, but this is primarily for servers for emails, web, etc., and it is my understanding that CentOS is one of the better distributions for that kind of stuff.
I would say, CentOS 6 is the best of Linuxes suitable for server (IMHO). However, I for one decided to move my servers away from Linux (as from "Unix-like" Linux gradually becomes "Windows-like" during last 5 years or so). Since some time ago I do not upgrade Linux systems on servers I maintain. Instead, when the time comes, I just migrate server from Linux to FreeBSD, which is much more suitable platform for server than Linux. Version 7 of RedHat Enterprise or CentOS is much worse than version 6 to build server on. Again, this is just my humble opinion. If I absolutely have to build server on today's latest Linux, I will choose Debian, which at least doesn't have systemd yet. But it will have it in next release...
Again, this is just $0.02 worth of my own opinion, definitely not a consensus (and likely not even a majority opinion) on this list.
Valeri
Just my $0.02
Valeri
Thank you for your 2 :)
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Valeri Galtsev Sr System Administrator Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics University of Chicago Phone: 773-702-4247 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ _______________________________________________ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
-- Igal Sapir Railo Core Developer http://getRailo.org/
CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Valeri Galtsev Sr System Administrator Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics University of Chicago Phone: 773-702-4247 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
On 10/8/2014 12:50 PM, Valeri Galtsev wrote:
On Wed, October 8, 2014 11:18 am, Igal @ getRailo.org wrote:
On 10/8/2014 9:13 AM, Valeri Galtsev wrote:
Someone had mentioned on this list the following RedHat Enterprise 7 (and as you know CentOS is binary replica of RedHat Enterprise with replaced art work):
https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-US/Red_Hat_Enterprise_Linux/7/htm...
so if I buy RHEL 7 books everything should work as in the book? part of the problem for me is that there aren't many books about CentOS, and the ones I found are a few years old
This covers CentOS 7 system administration sufficiently well for me (but I work with Linux and Unix for over 1.5 decades...).
So, if you decided to walk away from Windows, after you master Linux (or maybe simultaneously with starting it), take a look at Unix successors such as FreeBSD (most suitable for servers IMHO, some may recommend OpenBSD for servers, my preference is FreeBSD), NetBSD (most rich with what is ported to build and run on it), PC-BSD - based on FreeBSD, yet made easiest to install workstation whith GUI interface (X11) support.
I understand, but this is primarily for servers for emails, web, etc., and it is my understanding that CentOS is one of the better distributions for that kind of stuff.
I would say, CentOS 6 is the best of Linuxes suitable for server (IMHO). However, I for one decided to move my servers away from Linux (as from "Unix-like" Linux gradually becomes "Windows-like" during last 5 years or so). Since some time ago I do not upgrade Linux systems on servers I maintain. Instead, when the time comes, I just migrate server from Linux to FreeBSD, which is much more suitable platform for server than Linux. Version 7 of RedHat Enterprise or CentOS is much worse than version 6 to build server on. Again, this is just my humble opinion. If I absolutely have to build server on today's latest Linux, I will choose Debian, which at least doesn't have systemd yet. But it will have it in next release...
What changes have you seen that affect using CentOS as a server? Sure, the GUI has changed over the years to be more like Windows, but most of my servers don't even have a GUI installed. I have servers running CentOS 4, 5, 6, and 7. The only differences I can think of between 4 and 7 that affect server administration are selinux and systemd. Selinux can be easily disabled if you don't want to deal with it. I don't like systemd at the moment, but that's at least partially due to only having worked with it for a couple of weeks so far. The more I use it, the more I get used to it. So far, it seems easy enough to use once you figure out the new commands and file locations.
On 10/9/2014 12:22 AM, Mihamina Rakotomandimby wrote:
On 10/08/2014 07:50 PM, Valeri Galtsev wrote:
Again, this is just $0.02 worth of my own opinion, definitely not a consensus (and likely not even a majority opinion) on this list.
Just your humble opinion, but how do you insist and repeat it :-) _______________________________________________ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
as for my humble opinion:
I've looked into systemd in the past 24 hours and I find it as a refreshing update to Linux, and I welcome the fact that Linux is becoming a little more Windows-like.
whatever your opinion about Windows may be -- you can't argue its huge worldwide success and impact.
as long as you don't compromise security and/or performance, making Linux more like Windows is a good thing IMO.
On Thu, October 9, 2014 10:08 am, Igal @ getRailo.org wrote:
On 10/9/2014 12:22 AM, Mihamina Rakotomandimby wrote:
On 10/08/2014 07:50 PM, Valeri Galtsev wrote:
Again, this is just $0.02 worth of my own opinion, definitely not a consensus (and likely not even a majority opinion) on this list.
Just your humble opinion, but how do you insist and repeat it :-) _______________________________________________ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
as for my humble opinion:
I've looked into systemd in the past 24 hours and I find it as a refreshing update to Linux, and I welcome the fact that Linux is becoming a little more Windows-like.
whatever your opinion about Windows may be -- you can't argue its huge worldwide success and impact.
There you have it!
M$ Windows is the only OS (and I knew quite a few of the past and know quite a few of present) whose creators tell you you can not safely run it without 3rd part software (anti-virus)...
Valeri
as long as you don't compromise security and/or performance, making Linux more like Windows is a good thing IMO.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Valeri Galtsev Sr System Administrator Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics University of Chicago Phone: 773-702-4247 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
On 10/9/2014 8:18 AM, Valeri Galtsev wrote:
On Thu, October 9, 2014 10:08 am, Igal @ getRailo.org wrote:
On 10/9/2014 12:22 AM, Mihamina Rakotomandimby wrote:
On 10/08/2014 07:50 PM, Valeri Galtsev wrote:
Again, this is just $0.02 worth of my own opinion, definitely not a consensus (and likely not even a majority opinion) on this list.
Just your humble opinion, but how do you insist and repeat it :-) _______________________________________________ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
as for my humble opinion:
I've looked into systemd in the past 24 hours and I find it as a refreshing update to Linux, and I welcome the fact that Linux is becoming a little more Windows-like.
whatever your opinion about Windows may be -- you can't argue its huge worldwide success and impact.
There you have it!
M$ Windows is the only OS (and I knew quite a few of the past and know quite a few of present) whose creators tell you you can not safely run it without 3rd part software (anti-virus)...
Valeri
that's exactly why my next statement read:
as long as you don't compromise security and/or performance
On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 4:18 AM, Valeri Galtsev galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu wrote:
On Thu, October 9, 2014 10:08 am, Igal @ getRailo.org wrote:
On 10/9/2014 12:22 AM, Mihamina Rakotomandimby wrote:
On 10/08/2014 07:50 PM, Valeri Galtsev wrote:
Again, this is just $0.02 worth of my own opinion, definitely not a consensus (and likely not even a majority opinion) on this list.
Just your humble opinion, but how do you insist and repeat it :-) _______________________________________________ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
as for my humble opinion:
I've looked into systemd in the past 24 hours and I find it as a refreshing update to Linux, and I welcome the fact that Linux is becoming a little more Windows-like.
whatever your opinion about Windows may be -- you can't argue its huge worldwide success and impact.
There you have it!
M$ Windows is the only OS (and I knew quite a few of the past and know quite a few of present) whose creators tell you you can not safely run it without 3rd part software (anti-virus)...
IMHO this is changing. I recall that before "Code Red" (anyone remember
that?) there was no antivirus worth talking about and no concern about security as such. The Shellshock exploit probably does two things. Firstly it raises awareness of many admins as regards security of Linux systems and it encourages hackers because they realise that there is now (and actually always has been) a target in Linux systems. It may be Linux's "Code Red". There are definitely more exploits out there.
Not all Linux admins are security aware, just as many are not backup aware. Many think that Linux systems are secure by default. Many will "get around to security" some time.
Cheers,
Cliff
On 10/9/2014 8:18 AM, Valeri Galtsev wrote:
M$ Windows is the only OS (and I knew quite a few of the past and know quite a few of present) whose creators tell you you can not safely run it without 3rd part software (anti-virus)...
Windows has included a decent A/V system, variously called Microsoft Security Essentials, and Microsoft Defender for the last several major releases.
any other fables?
On Thu, October 9, 2014 7:41 pm, John R Pierce wrote:
On 10/9/2014 8:18 AM, Valeri Galtsev wrote:
M$ Windows is the only OS (and I knew quite a few of the past and know quite a few of present) whose creators tell you you can not safely run it without 3rd part software (anti-virus)...
Windows has included a decent A/V system, variously called Microsoft Security Essentials, and Microsoft Defender for the last several major releases.
Please roll the time back and change it from "IS" to "was for over decade which changed just a year or two ago".
any other fables?
Not yet, but I'm inventive.
BTW, the whole idea of "antivirus" is flawed. It is based on "enumerate bad". You can't, as one never knows what will be invented in a future. Good approach would be: enumerate good and ban everything else. Which we usually do when configuring firewalls. Selinux (even though I have different opinion about its usefulness) uses this not flawed approach (consider this my next fable).
Valeri
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Valeri Galtsev Sr System Administrator Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics University of Chicago Phone: 773-702-4247 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
actually, I think that the anti-virus that comes with Windows is only available for desktop OSs like Windows 7, and not available for the Server OSs like 2008 R2.
On 10/9/2014 6:07 PM, Valeri Galtsev wrote:
On Thu, October 9, 2014 7:41 pm, John R Pierce wrote:
On 10/9/2014 8:18 AM, Valeri Galtsev wrote:
M$ Windows is the only OS (and I knew quite a few of the past and know quite a few of present) whose creators tell you you can not safely run it without 3rd part software (anti-virus)...
Windows has included a decent A/V system, variously called Microsoft Security Essentials, and Microsoft Defender for the last several major releases.
Please roll the time back and change it from "IS" to "was for over decade which changed just a year or two ago".
any other fables?
Not yet, but I'm inventive.
BTW, the whole idea of "antivirus" is flawed. It is based on "enumerate bad". You can't, as one never knows what will be invented in a future. Good approach would be: enumerate good and ban everything else. Which we usually do when configuring firewalls. Selinux (even though I have different opinion about its usefulness) uses this not flawed approach (consider this my next fable).
Valeri
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Valeri Galtsev Sr System Administrator Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics University of Chicago Phone: 773-702-4247 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ _______________________________________________ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
On 10/9/2014 6:07 PM, Valeri Galtsev wrote:
BTW, the whole idea of "antivirus" is flawed. It is based on "enumerate bad". You can't, as one never knows what will be invented in a future.
I agree, but I don't know what else you can put in the hands of the novice, unless its the iPhone world of corporate approved apps only purchased through a monopoly 'app store'.
On Thu, October 9, 2014 2:22 am, Mihamina Rakotomandimby wrote:
On 10/08/2014 07:50 PM, Valeri Galtsev wrote:
Again, this is just $0.02 worth of my own opinion, definitely not a consensus (and likely not even a majority opinion) on this list.
Just your humble opinion, but how do you insist and repeat it :-)
I guess the decision then was the bloody one ... ;-)
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Valeri Galtsev Sr System Administrator Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics University of Chicago Phone: 773-702-4247 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
On 8 October 2014 17:18, Igal @ getRailo.org igal@getrailo.org wrote:
On 10/8/2014 9:13 AM, Valeri Galtsev wrote:
Someone had mentioned on this list the following RedHat Enterprise 7 (and as you know CentOS is binary replica of RedHat Enterprise with replaced art work):
https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-US/Red_Hat_Enterprise_Linux/7/htm... so if I buy RHEL 7 books everything should work as in the book? part of the problem for me is that there aren't many books about CentOS, and the ones I found are a few years old
Getting back to topic and responding to the OP...
Keep in mind CentOS is a rebuild of RHEL so any resources for RHEL are applicable to CentOS.
I'm not sure if any EL7 books have been written yet (as it's fairly new and the Red Hat certifications have only just started being updated).
In the meanwhile one of the best resources is access.redhat.com ... read the documentation there.
On 10/10/2014 11:44 AM, James Hogarth wrote:
Keep in mind CentOS is a rebuild of RHEL so any resources for RHEL are applicable to CentOS.
I'm not sure if any EL7 books have been written yet (as it's fairly new and the Red Hat certifications have only just started being updated).
In the meanwhile one of the best resources is access.redhat.com ... read the documentation there.
it's very difficult to find up-to-date books on the subject, but yes, the docs on https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-US/Red_Hat_Enterprise_Linux/7/ are so far really good.
it's all just very confusing for someone without Linux experience. all the docs/tutorials/examples out there are for previous versions so they are all out of date now that RHEL/CentOS 7 uses systemd.
also, the relationship between the OS, Gnome, and KDE is confusing. I installed CentOS 7 with GUI so I have Gnome 3.8.4 which I expected, but how come I have KDE stuff there as well?
and... I still haven't figured out how to add shortcuts to the desktop and/or task bar which should really be a context menu option so I'm not sure why Gnome is so un-intuitive in that case.
Igal
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Bowie Bailey -
Cliff Pratt -
Igal ＠ getRailo.org -
James Hogarth -
John R Pierce -
Mihamina Rakotomandimby -
Valeri Galtsev