Hello all.
I have 15 or so CentOS servers (now v4.4, I will upgrade them all to 5 when it comes out) and a few windows machines. I am looking to implement a network backup solution using Amanda.
I will be backing up 200 gig or so to start, but that will grow.
Does anyone have any recommendations on tape drives that will work "out of the box" with CentOS?
Thanks,
Joe
On Tue, 27 Mar 2007 at 10:48am, Mailing Lists wrote
I have 15 or so CentOS servers (now v4.4, I will upgrade them all to 5 when it comes out) and a few windows machines. I am looking to implement a network backup solution using Amanda.
I will be backing up 200 gig or so to start, but that will grow.
Does anyone have any recommendations on tape drives that will work "out of the box" with CentOS?
Most all SCSI tape drives will work with a minimum of hassle -- what you go with depends mainly on budget and backup window. I currently use both AIT3 and LTO3, and like them quite a lot. LTO3 is probably overkill for you, but you may want to look at LTO or LTO2.
Most all SCSI tape drives will work with a minimum of hassle -- what you go with depends mainly on budget and backup window. I currently use both AIT3 and LTO3, and like them quite a lot. LTO3 is probably overkill for you, but you may want to look at LTO or LTO2.
I'd second the motion on LTO2 or LTO3. I'd avoid AIT, DAT/DDS, and any other sort of helical scan. LTO2 holds 200GB raw, 400GB compressed on a cartridge, the drives are a bit pricy, but the tapes are fairly reasonable, and they are FAST. They require a dedicated Ultra160/320 SCSI channel for best performance.
Skip the tape route, install a network backup machine using a raid setup instead. It is quicker and cleaner.Also it can be done in either Windows, or Centos without any big tricks..
john plemons
Mailing Lists wrote:
Hello all.
I have 15 or so CentOS servers (now v4.4, I will upgrade them all to 5 when it comes out) and a few windows machines. I am looking to implement a network backup solution using Amanda.
I will be backing up 200 gig or so to start, but that will grow.
Does anyone have any recommendations on tape drives that will work "out of the box" with CentOS?
Thanks,
Joe
CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
John Plemons wrote:
Skip the tape route, install a network backup machine using a raid setup instead. It is quicker and cleaner.Also it can be done in either Windows, or Centos without any big tricks..
That works great for 'nearline' short term backups, but it doesn't play real well with many emergency recovery plan requirements, such as offsite backups, long term archive retention, etc. One nasty crash on that archive filesystem and a few dozen terabytes of backups could become junk.
Backup also would need to include an off site push. One thing I've learned is never depend on one method, I have the main nightly backup to disk and then also have a secondary and tertiary backup pushing off site to machines in a different part of the country.
I had such a crash 6 months ago, and had my company up and running within 3 hours remotely using a secondary server. They were in California, the server was in Tennessee, it took several days to repair and rebuild the primary server, but down time was kept to a minimum and when we went live on the primary just a simple restore from the secondary server.
So nasty it wasn't, having gone through the same thing with tape it was a lot worse, we would be down for days instead of a few hours.
john plemons
John R Pierce wrote:
John Plemons wrote:
Skip the tape route, install a network backup machine using a raid setup instead. It is quicker and cleaner.Also it can be done in either Windows, or Centos without any big tricks..
That works great for 'nearline' short term backups, but it doesn't play real well with many emergency recovery plan requirements, such as offsite backups, long term archive retention, etc. One nasty crash on that archive filesystem and a few dozen terabytes of backups could become junk.
CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
It all really comes down to $ more than compatibility.
How fast, how big, how much cost for media, how much automation (will someone be there to swap tapes?).
Don't forget about archival purposes. Once had a law suit and needed database records from several years past. VERY IMPORTANT!
I can do a bare metal restore of any of our servers with tape in around an hour, don't know why it would take days?
.......
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Ken Godee wrote:
It all really comes down to $ more than compatibility.
How fast, how big, how much cost for media, how much automation (will someone be there to swap tapes?).
Don't forget about archival purposes. Once had a law suit and needed database records from several years past. VERY IMPORTANT!
I can do a bare metal restore of any of our servers with tape in around an hour, don't know why it would take days?
It may take days to get a functional bare-metal machine ready. Even overnight Fedex is still a ~24 hour down time.
Ray
I can do a bare metal restore of any of our servers with tape in around an hour, don't know why it would take days?
It may take days to get a functional bare-metal machine ready. Even overnight Fedex is still a ~24 hour down time.
Ok, I guess I wasn't thinking that everybody doesn't stock spare parts for their severs. In that case at a hardware level, it would take time to get the parts.
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On Tue, Mar 27, 2007 at 10:48:44AM -0400, Mailing Lists wrote:
Hello all.
I have 15 or so CentOS servers (now v4.4, I will upgrade them all to 5 when it comes out) and a few windows machines. I am looking to implement a network backup solution using Amanda.
I will be backing up 200 gig or so to start, but that will grow.
Does anyone have any recommendations on tape drives that will work "out of the box" with CentOS?
Any and all SCSI tape drives will work out of the box on CentOS (or any Linux, for that matter).
For your case, my recomendation is LTO-3 (300GB/600GB). Good space, fair price, good durability.
- -- Rodrigo Barbosa "Quid quid Latine dictum sit, altum viditur" "Be excellent to each other ..." - Bill & Ted (Wyld Stallyns)
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On Tue, Mar 27, 2007 at 11:35:39AM -0400, Joshua Baker-LePain wrote:
On Tue, 27 Mar 2007 at 12:34pm, Rodrigo Barbosa wrote
For your case, my recomendation is LTO-3 (300GB/600GB). Good space, fair price, good durability.
LTO-3 is 400GB native...
True, my bad.
Little recap:
LTO-1: 100/200 LTO-2: 200/400 LTO-3: 400/600 LTO-4: 800/1.6T (avaliable sometime in the next few months)
Always double ... always double ...
[]s
- -- Rodrigo Barbosa "Quid quid Latine dictum sit, altum viditur" "Be excellent to each other ..." - Bill & Ted (Wyld Stallyns)
I would suggest backing up to a local machine for speed and then vaulting that offsite to tape. The local machine will keep the speeds up and the window short, then vault that machine offsite to tape. If you have the budget use a VTL for the local machine and a tape library for the off-site. If you don't have the budget LTO3 is your safest, best route. I have a lot of experience in this area if you nee help, send me an email.
God Bless,
Aron
-----Original Message----- From: centos-bounces@centos.org [mailto:centos-bounces@centos.org] On Behalf Of Mailing Lists Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 7:49 AM To: CentOS mailing list Subject: [CentOS] Tape drive recommendations
Hello all.
I have 15 or so CentOS servers (now v4.4, I will upgrade them all to 5 when it comes out) and a few windows machines. I am looking to implement a network backup solution using Amanda.
I will be backing up 200 gig or so to start, but that will grow.
Does anyone have any recommendations on tape drives that will work "out of the box" with CentOS?
Thanks,
Joe
_______________________________________________ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Joe,
I just wanted to share my 2 cents: When I was pricing tape backup solutions for a recent project, I chose LTO3 over LTO2 (or any of the other formats). The price difference between LTO2 and 3 was minimal, and double the native capacity (and speed) is hard to ignore. Aside from checking application support, I used price per gigabyte as the major determining factor.
Gordon
On 3/27/07, Mailing Lists mlists@microreplay.com wrote:
Hello all.
I have 15 or so CentOS servers (now v4.4, I will upgrade them all to 5 when it comes out) and a few windows machines. I am looking to implement a network backup solution using Amanda.
I will be backing up 200 gig or so to start, but that will grow.
Does anyone have any recommendations on tape drives that will work "out of the box" with CentOS?
Thanks,
Joe
CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
LTO3 is the standard these days... LTO4 will be out midyear hopefully and maybe LTO3 prices will come down.
I use BRUServer for network backup. It provides similar services to what your planning to use Amanda for. They maintain a good bit of information at their websites about drives & scsi cards. I'm on an older RHEL kernel which they don't support because of scsi problems that require me to reboot it about 4:00am each day to keep the tape drive in view or it disappears. Other than that, the setup works well and LTO3 is fast.
http://www.tolisgroup.com/ http://www.linuxtapecert.org/
On 3/27/07, Mailing Lists mlists@microreplay.com wrote:
Hello all.
I have 15 or so CentOS servers (now v4.4, I will upgrade them all to 5 when it comes out) and a few windows machines. I am looking to implement a network backup solution using Amanda.
I will be backing up 200 gig or so to start, but that will grow.
Does anyone have any recommendations on tape drives that will work "out of the box" with CentOS?
Thanks,
Joe
CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Don Knott wrote:
LTO3 is the standard these days... LTO4 will be out midyear hopefully and maybe LTO3 prices will come down.
I use BRUServer for network backup. It provides similar services to what your planning to use Amanda for.
Does anything match amanda's ability to automatically schedule an appropriate mix of full and incremental runs from a set of machines to fill the size tape that you have and end up with at least one full run in every set of tapes and an incremental of everything for each day?
OK - Thanks for all the great advice!
Based on what I have read, I think I will build a backup server with a big RAID array, back up to the array each night, and then copy the array off to tape during the day.
To keep costs down, I think LTO-1 will work well with the RAID array. I don't mind running over to more than one tape per day.
Can I ask which drives everyone likes?
I found a Tandberg drive for the right price ($740 brand new). The drive is the Tandberg LTO1 220LTO (Tandberg part number 3120-01).
Does anyone have experience with this drive?
Are there other drives in this price range I should consider?
Who are your favorite vendors for this type of product?
Thanks again!
Try this link, heck you might just come up with a deal....
http://search.stores.ebay.com/Bargainland-Liquidation__Tape-Drives_W0QQcatre...
Check out the HP Ultrium...
Some of there stuff is damaged and junk, but if you stick with their new stuff, many times you can make out....
john
Mailing Lists wrote:
OK - Thanks for all the great advice!
Based on what I have read, I think I will build a backup server with a big RAID array, back up to the array each night, and then copy the array off to tape during the day.
To keep costs down, I think LTO-1 will work well with the RAID array. I don't mind running over to more than one tape per day.
Can I ask which drives everyone likes?
I found a Tandberg drive for the right price ($740 brand new). The drive is the Tandberg LTO1 220LTO (Tandberg part number 3120-01).
Does anyone have experience with this drive?
Are there other drives in this price range I should consider?
Who are your favorite vendors for this type of product?
Thanks again! _______________________________________________ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Mailing Lists wrote:
OK - Thanks for all the great advice!
Based on what I have read, I think I will build a backup server with a big RAID array, back up to the array each night, and then copy the array off to tape during the day.
To keep costs down, I think LTO-1 will work well with the RAID array. I don't mind running over to more than one tape per day.
Can I ask which drives everyone likes?
I found a Tandberg drive for the right price ($740 brand new). The drive is the Tandberg LTO1 220LTO (Tandberg part number 3120-01).
Does anyone have experience with this drive?
Are there other drives in this price range I should consider?
Who are your favorite vendors for this type of product?
I'm fairly sure most ALL LTO drives are from a very few vendors. Quantum bought Certance, fka Seagate Tape, fka Archive, and acquired the whole line of LTO from them, prior to that, Quantum was the primary OEM manufacturer of DLT drives.
HP may in fact make their own tape transport, as at least some of their LTO drives have slightly different performnace specs than everyone elses.
I'm ussing a HP Ultrium LTO2 "1/8 Autoloader", which is a simple 8 tape changer. Love/hate thing, it works great, holds 8 tapes, I can do rotating backups (BTW, LTO2 backs up at hard drive speeds), but its kind of a pain to remove tapes from the rotation, the backup software I'm using supports a concept of a 'mailslot' where the software ejects a tape from a library, but this drive only seems to support manual eject, so it makes library management kinda difficult.
The HP "1/8 Autoloader" I have is identical to this Quantum unit, http://www.quantum.com/Products/Autoloaders/SuperLoader3/Index.aspx except for the trim details of the faceplate
If I was doing it again, I'd get one of these, http://www.quantum.com/Products/TapeLibraries/PX502/Index.aspx (IBM, HP, Dell, etc all have their own OEM labeled versions of this same library). This family supports 1 or 2 internal LTO or DLT drives, and up to 38 tape slots.
Loader are totally a love/hate relationship. They do make life a lot easier as they do the tape movements for you which can be a tedious thing at times. With a loader or library you can script the entire operation with tar, MTX and MT and let cron do all the work for you. Always look for the OEM rather than buying the name brand equipment, they are most always the same HW and FW with a different model number in it.
-----Original Message----- From: centos-bounces@centos.org [mailto:centos-bounces@centos.org] On Behalf Of John R Pierce Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 2:37 PM To: CentOS mailing list Subject: Re: [CentOS] Tape drive recommendations
Mailing Lists wrote:
OK - Thanks for all the great advice!
Based on what I have read, I think I will build a backup server with a
big RAID array, back up to the array each night, and then copy the array off to tape during the day.
To keep costs down, I think LTO-1 will work well with the RAID array.
I don't mind running over to more than one tape per day.
Can I ask which drives everyone likes?
I found a Tandberg drive for the right price ($740 brand new). The drive is the Tandberg LTO1 220LTO (Tandberg part number 3120-01).
Does anyone have experience with this drive?
Are there other drives in this price range I should consider?
Who are your favorite vendors for this type of product?
I'm fairly sure most ALL LTO drives are from a very few vendors. Quantum bought Certance, fka Seagate Tape, fka Archive, and acquired the whole line of LTO from them, prior to that, Quantum was the primary OEM manufacturer of DLT drives.
HP may in fact make their own tape transport, as at least some of their LTO drives have slightly different performnace specs than everyone elses.
I'm ussing a HP Ultrium LTO2 "1/8 Autoloader", which is a simple 8 tape changer. Love/hate thing, it works great, holds 8 tapes, I can do rotating backups (BTW, LTO2 backs up at hard drive speeds), but its kind of a pain to remove tapes from the rotation, the backup software I'm using supports a concept of a 'mailslot' where the software ejects a tape from a library, but this drive only seems to support manual eject, so it makes library management kinda difficult.
The HP "1/8 Autoloader" I have is identical to this Quantum unit, http://www.quantum.com/Products/Autoloaders/SuperLoader3/Index.aspx except for the trim details of the faceplate
If I was doing it again, I'd get one of these, http://www.quantum.com/Products/TapeLibraries/PX502/Index.aspx (IBM, HP, Dell, etc all have their own OEM labeled versions of this same library). This family supports 1 or 2 internal LTO or DLT drives, and up to 38 tape slots. _______________________________________________ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Aron.Darling@Emulex.Com wrote:
Loader are totally a love/hate relationship. They do make life a lot easier as they do the tape movements for you which can be a tedious thing at times. With a loader or library you can script the entire operation with tar, MTX and MT and let cron do all the work for you. Always look for the OEM rather than buying the name brand equipment, they are most always the same HW and FW with a different model number in it.
otoh, its hard to beat a 3 year warranty and on location support from the same vendor as your server hardware, assuming your a brand name shop in the first place.... hugely reduces finger pointing when there's a complex issue to resolve. with OEM hardware bought on the whitebox market, you're often faced with replace or self-repair option at cost.
Thanks to everyone! This was a great discussion.
So here is how things ended up:
On the hardware side, I can get a Exabyte (Tandberg Data) 3120, HH - LTO1 drive (100/200 GB), an Adaptec 29320LPE Ultra 360 SCSI card and a 68 bin VHD internal cable with terminators for under $1000, all brand new.
Based on the extensive RAID thread we just had, I bought a 3ware 9650SE card and 4 WD3200JS 320GB drives for another project. Total cost for the card (4 port, low profile) was $930. I just installed everything and it worked the first time. 3ware is great!
I am going to build a backup server around another 9650SE RAID array (probably 8 drives X 320 GB) and the Exabyte LTO drive. I estimate the total cost will be under $4K for everything.
Finally, based on all the money I saved, I made a donation to CentOS!
Thanks again!
-Joe
Jim King wrote:
I am going to build a backup server around another 9650SE RAID array (probably 8 drives X 320 GB) and the Exabyte LTO drive. I estimate the total cost will be under $4K for everything.
Be sure to look at 'bacula' for a server with both disk and tape. I'm still running amanda tapes and backuppc on a different machine for the online copies but if you don't care about the compression/linking to hold a longer history online, bacula sounds pretty good.
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