I see that a number of questions are being answered on the new web forum that is now part of the centos site. And the mailing lists So now there are two places to search, both the forum and the mailing list archives.
This is just doubles the work required to follow along or find a solution.
I know NNTP isn't sexy, it doesn't allow graphics in posts, it doesn't have person ratings or cute smileys, and it requires a modicum of competence to use, but it DOES do all of these:
. Allows off-line reading and replying, with an appropriate reader. . Searching. . Reliable way of showing you which threads have new posts. -> I have not yet found a single web forum that did this well. . Orders of magnitude faster. . Easy to archive. . Small footprint, on-disk and over-network. . Synchronisation to multiple servers, reduced network use. . Bidirectional synchronisation to a mailing list. . Supports authenticated posting, moderation, etc.
--Jim
On Sat, 2005-01-08 at 15:53 -0500, Jim Zajkowski wrote:
I see that a number of questions are being answered on the new web forum that is now part of the centos site. And the mailing lists So now there are two places to search, both the forum and the mailing list archives.
True ... but some users like forums, and others like mailing lists. Each has there advantages and disadvantages.
This is just doubles the work required to follow along or find a solution.
I know NNTP isn't sexy, it doesn't allow graphics in posts, it doesn't have person ratings or cute smileys, and it requires a modicum of competence to use, but it DOES do all of these:
. Allows off-line reading and replying, with an appropriate reader. . Searching. . Reliable way of showing you which threads have new posts. -> I have not yet found a single web forum that did this well.
check the envelope at the left after you login ... if the color is bright it's new to you ... if it is lightened out, it is not new to you.
. Orders of magnitude faster. . Easy to archive. . Small footprint, on-disk and over-network. . Synchronisation to multiple servers, reduced network use. . Bidirectional synchronisation to a mailing list. . Supports authenticated posting, moderation, etc.
--Jim
I like forums ... and I personally think that forums are easier to search. I also think that things like BOLD letters and links like:
[url=xxxxx]Text[/url]
Where xxxxx is a 200 character string, are much more convenient in a forum.
BUT ... I realize that there is no right answer, much like the vi / emacs argument, the GNOME / KDE argument, and the evolution / mutt argument.
However, I think offering both is what a community based distro, with users in mind should do.
I could be wrong though ... my wife reminds me of that quite often :)
On Sat, 8 Jan 2005 15:53:37 -0500, Jim Zajkowski jim@jimz.net wrote:
I see that a number of questions are being answered on the new web forum that is now part of the centos site. And the mailing lists So now there are two places to search, both the forum and the mailing list archives.
This is just doubles the work required to follow along or find a solution.
That's funny because the thought about having "two places to search" occurred to me a couple of days ago when I read the following two posts:
http://lists.caosity.org/pipermail/centos/2005-January/001496.html http://lists.caosity.org/pipermail/centos-devel/2005-January/000574.html
I am new to Centos so correct me if I'm wrong but I'm assuming that developers and end users were initially corresponding with each other via mailing lists. In my opinion, redirecting some future discussions to the web forums while leaving others on the mailing lists seems counter productive.
I'm not familiar with the CMS software that is being used at centos.org but is there any mailing list <-> web forum software available for it?
Avtar Gill wrote:
On Sat, 8 Jan 2005 15:53:37 -0500, Jim Zajkowski jim@jimz.net wrote:
I see that a number of questions are being answered on the new web forum that is now part of the centos site. And the mailing lists So now there are two places to search, both the forum and the mailing list archives.
This is just doubles the work required to follow along or find a solution.
Avtar I know you didn't write this. But when the mailing lists are accessible via the CentOS website (a work in progress) the search function will then find answers in both the mailing lists and forums. This feature is not yet available though... We thought it was more important to get CentOS a face (www.centos.org) than have every possible bell and whistle implemented at launch.
Website complaints bring them to me.
I am new to Centos so correct me if I'm wrong but I'm assuming that developers and end users were initially corresponding with each other via mailing lists. In my opinion, redirecting some future discussions
In many cases it's what you prefer (the format). I prefer forums for a historical perspective. IRC for realtime discussion and mailing lists for conveying information. Too many people use mailing lists in place of realtime discussion. See today's "Where is ethereal" for a perfect example. Or this thread for that matter.
to the web forums while leaving others on the mailing lists seems counter productive.
I'm not familiar with the CMS software that is being used at centos.org but is there any mailing list <-> web forum software available for it?
The cms being used on www.centos.org is xoops. The next version of the forums software _should_ include mailing list <=-=> forum features. I'm making no promises my self as I'm a developer of neither (xoops or the forums).
.dn
On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 21:35:20 -0600, donavan nelson donavan@4wx.net wrote:
We thought it was more important to get CentOS a face (www.centos.org) than have every possible bell and whistle implemented at launch.
Once again it's a matter of opinion. I would consider the addition of web forums (without a mailing list to forum and vice-versa gateway in place) a bell, definitely a whistle ;) I'm saying that mainly because the mailing lists were fulfilling the purpose of communication between project leaders and users.
In many cases it's what you prefer (the format).
I agree.
I prefer forums for a historical perspective. IRC for real time discussion and mailing lists for conveying information. Too many people use mailing lists in place of realtime discussion. See today's "Where is ethereal" for a perfect example. Or this thread for that matter.
This is where we disagree, generally mailing lists and newsgroup archives (groups.google.com, marc.theaimsgroup.com, gmane.org) are used for the purpose of effectively archiving past discussions. I feel that having this discussion on the mailing lists is pretty fitting since it will be archived and therefore be available for anyone else as a reference. IRC, like you noted, is for real time discussion. Once that conversation is over it can't be linked to in an email for someone else's benefit.
The cms being used on www.centos.org is xoops. The next version of the forums software _should_ include mailing list <=-=> forum features. I'm making no promises my self as I'm a developer of neither (xoops or the forums).
Great. I (and it appears others as well) look forward to having that option available to the people who are sticking with the mailing lists and those who prefer web forums.
By the way, I hope my comments are perceived as constructive criticism. I acknowledge that it's the efforts of the Centos project members that are sustaining this project's growth.
Jim Zajkowski wrote:
I see that a number of questions are being answered on the new web forum that is now part of the centos site. And the mailing lists So now there are two places to search, both the forum and the mailing list archives.
This is just doubles the work required to follow along or find a solution.
I know NNTP isn't sexy, it doesn't allow graphics in posts, it doesn't have person ratings or cute smileys, and it requires a modicum of competence to use, but it DOES do all of these:
. Allows off-line reading and replying, with an appropriate reader. . Searching. . Reliable way of showing you which threads have new posts. -> I have not yet found a single web forum that did this well. . Orders of magnitude faster. . Easy to archive. . Small footprint, on-disk and over-network. . Synchronisation to multiple servers, reduced network use. . Bidirectional synchronisation to a mailing list. . Supports authenticated posting, moderation, etc.
--Jim
many mailing lists , including this one, can be read on the newsserver news.gmane.org . This is extremely nice because they do not clutter my mailbox, and are easily searchable.
Kay
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Avtar Gill -
donavan nelson -
Jim Zajkowski -
Johnny Hughes -
Kay Diederichs