greetings,
can someone(s) in authority please come up with a plan(s) of action in regards to this list medium?
unfortunately this list has pretty much reached the point of no return and has become virtually useless.
- rh
-- Robert - Abba Communications Computers & Internet Sales/Service www.abbacomm.net
Robert roberth@abbacomm.net wrote:
greetings, can someone(s) in authority please come up with a plan(s) of action in regards to this list medium? unfortunately this list has pretty much reached the point of no return and has become virtually useless.
One thing that is really shocking me is how many people "lurk" and don't bother to answer questions, and the only time they post is to ask them ... or worse yet ... only enter "meta-discussions." I'm actually answering questions, regularly, among a few other people.
So maybe I should just start asking technical questions instead of answering them? So maybe it's because I virtually _never_ ask them, hence why some select people think I'm here "sporting my knowledge." God that gets to me!
Now let's get _exact_.
From what Preston posted, he had obviously not even bothered
to thing things through, let alone not even hit the man page about mplayer -- which is why the majority of his post was _not_ about his question, but some other tangent! He might have not known about the "-endpos" option directly, but the man page _does_ lay out how to do bit rate, even if not straight-forward.
Now people can accuse me of "liking to hear myself talk." But man, I'm tired of people who have stories to tell with virtually *0* technical investigation or info in their first post, then turn around and complain about _me_ when I try it point out there are Linux solutions. This hypocrisy is happening over and over.
I guess the only way to solve it is to just not post to the list. And I'm going to stop helping select people too.
Possible solutions that require zero involvement from the already busy project team:
1. Use your email client to better manage the flow and turn it into a trickle 2. Use the forums on your time rather than having it emailed in and disrupting your life http://www.centos.org/modules/newbb 3. Subscribe to the list using an account that you use specifically for the list (I'll send gmail invites to anyone interested) and only read that account when you want...otherwise, ignore it 4. Unsubscribe
You can combine 2 and 4 for maximum effect.
Given those options, why does the project team need to get involved?
Greg
On Thu, 15 Sep 2005, Greg Knaddison wrote:
Possible solutions that require zero involvement from the already busy project team:
- Use your email client to better manage the flow and turn it into a trickle
- Use the forums on your time rather than having it emailed in and
disrupting your life http://www.centos.org/modules/newbb 3. Subscribe to the list using an account that you use specifically for the list (I'll send gmail invites to anyone interested) and only read that account when you want...otherwise, ignore it 4. Unsubscribe
You can combine 2 and 4 for maximum effect.
Given those options, why does the project team need to get involved?
It might be because the 4 options you gave all add overhead to subscribers. (actually, the 4th option is no option to most that care)
While selective moderation (when long threads, abuse and personal attacks flourish) by someone (not necessarily a developer) needs to be initiated by someone of the project team.
If there's someone fair that has the authority to police the mailinglist following some written down guidelines, I'm pretty sure this mailinglist becomes viable again without adding much overhead to the guy who can intervene. (If necessary just a warning might suffice)
Of course this assumes that the majority does not want long threads as we have seen the last couple of days and weeks. But we don't know what the majority wants unless we start another long thread :)
Kind regards, -- dag wieers, dag@wieers.com, http://dag.wieers.com/ -- [all I want is a warm bed and a kind word and unlimited power]
On 9/15/05, Dag Wieers dag@wieers.com wrote:
It might be because the 4 options you gave all add overhead to subscribers. (actually, the 4th option is no option to most that care)
I think unsubscribing and going to the forum are a very legitimate option without adding extra work for the subscriber.
If you use a threading email client and can set up filters, it's a 10 second fix that makes the list very reasonable and doesn't require a long thread about what the "majority" wants. Moderation is sure to bring up it's own set of problems that would themselves become long fight-filled threads (as we've already seen). Client side filtering makes you in charge of "what is on topic" which is therefore guaranteed to be the right answer for the majority :)
While selective moderation (when long threads, abuse and personal attacks flourish) by someone (not necessarily a developer) needs to be initiated by someone of the project team.
I'veonly seen this model used for _really_ off topic things. Most people here seem to stay on topic but get repetitive and flamey.
If there's someone fair that has the authority to police the mailinglist following some written down guidelines, I'm pretty sure this mailinglist becomes viable again without adding much overhead to the guy who can intervene. (If necessary just a warning might suffice)
That's the tough part, though, isn't it. A /. style board solves this problem, but CentOS got established early as a mailing list and barring the developers completing killing mailman I doubt we'll see a mass move to a forum or /. style means of communicating...so, given all that, I think the 4 options I gave remain highly reasonable.
Greg
On Thu, 15 Sep 2005, Greg Knaddison wrote:
On 9/15/05, Dag Wieers dag@wieers.com wrote:
It might be because the 4 options you gave all add overhead to subscribers. (actually, the 4th option is no option to most that care)
I think unsubscribing and going to the forum are a very legitimate option without adding extra work for the subscriber.
To be honest, having both a mailinglist and a forum splits your userbase into 2 parts that are disconnected. Looking at the forum (for the first time) I see lots of unanswered threads (threads with no replies).
I doubt the current forums are a good replacement for this mailinglist. Abuse and flames are equally possible on a forum.
If you use a threading email client and can set up filters, it's a 10 second fix that makes the list very reasonable and doesn't require a long thread about what the "majority" wants. Moderation is sure to bring up it's own set of problems that would themselves become long fight-filled threads (as we've already seen). Client side filtering makes you in charge of "what is on topic" which is therefore guaranteed to be the right answer for the majority :)
Filters based on the body of a message ? I am not sure that is workable and manageable. (You don't know in advance when a thread grows until 230) Besides it adds overhead for each subscriber that needs to perform it after they get annoyed by it, and it annoys everyone who cannot (or enters the archives, etc..) It's a global waste of time if we cannot simply stop making it happen.
Sure selective moderation will have to be discussed, but again, a policy will prevent the extreme threads we've seen. Currently everything seems to be allowed, and by lack of someone authoritative, people start replying to the same thread. The same will happen again and again, unless lines are drawn in the sand.
Even if someone found the 230-long Yum-thread interesting, it was not something that had to be discussed here. Proposals for some new Yum functionality should go to a Yum list. After 5 mails someone authoritative could have mentioned this (on a Red Hat mailinglist a @redhat.com reply would be sufficient), on this list we have an additional 225 mails, flames, personal attacks before it ends in tears. Nobody made it stop, nobody could, it just exploded.
And it's not like it's the first thread, certainly the worst. Brian's departure may not be a solution. It worries me that, what happened here, is not seen as a real problem. Filtering out by subscribers, or moving them to the forum will not solve a real problem. (that led to Brian's departure as an example)
While selective moderation (when long threads, abuse and personal attacks flourish) by someone (not necessarily a developer) needs to be initiated by someone of the project team.
I'veonly seen this model used for _really_ off topic things. Most people here seem to stay on topic but get repetitive and flamey.
Nope, most mailinglists have a moderator. Open Source projects are moderated by the developer(s). Red Hat mailinglists have @redhat.com moderators. These people, by simple reply, can make something stop because they are authoritative. (mind you I did not say they actively filtered a message out, they just act as a moderator)
If there's someone fair that has the authority to police the mailinglist following some written down guidelines, I'm pretty sure this mailinglist becomes viable again without adding much overhead to the guy who can intervene. (If necessary just a warning might suffice)
That's the tough part, though, isn't it. A /. style board solves this problem, but CentOS got established early as a mailing list and barring the developers completing killing mailman I doubt we'll see a mass move to a forum or /. style means of communicating...so, given all that, I think the 4 options I gave remain highly reasonable.
I give up.
Kind regards, -- dag wieers, dag@wieers.com, http://dag.wieers.com/ -- [all I want is a warm bed and a kind word and unlimited power]
Dag Wieers wrote:
Sure selective moderation will have to be discussed, but again, a policy will prevent the extreme threads we've seen. Currently everything seems to be allowed, and by lack of someone authoritative, people start replying to the same thread. The same will happen again and again, unless lines are drawn in the sand.
1. I am in the process of applying for a patent to deal with that and all kind of spam: Press the Delete key. It's $1 per action for anybody using it in a non-GPL environment. I also will sell authorizations in bulk.
2. The problem with Brian is that he goes on and on, but it's actually never CentOS stuff, like arguing what kind of Raid and states his opinion as facts.
On 9/15/05, CentOS mailing list centos@centos.org wrote:
- I am in the process of applying for a patent to deal with that
and all kind of spam: Press the Delete key. It's $1 per action for anybody using it in a non-GPL environment. I also will sell authorizations in bulk.
I'm in total agreement. After 9+ years working with email, the one feature that has never failed me is the Delete Key; it's 100% reliable.
- The problem with Brian is that he goes on and on, but it's actually
never CentOS stuff, like arguing what kind of Raid and states his opinion as facts.
Heh. His opinion just happens to concur with mine in that 1) 3ware 750x and 850x are absolutely disasters in RAID 5 mode for performance and 2) if you do want to do RAID 5 on a 3ware card, go get a 950x series card.
Where I work, we host millions of email boxes and run hundreds of fileservers where the emails are stored. When the team was on the lookout for new fileservers which would use a hardware raid card about two years ago, they chose 3ware. We could only fit 6 disks in the case and so there was debate about maximising space versus performance.
I made it clear that raid 5 would be slow and a disaster should any disk take a hike. All I had for proof were public benchmarks on software vs hardware raid and which included different hardware raid cards done a year earlier. Of course, since we had not have any experience with the card and they had only had experience with Mylex Raid cards, what I said was taken as an opinion only. The team went ahead with raid 5 since I was only the mail admin and i cannot demonstrate that raid 5 would be slow.
Now the team configures three mirrored arrays instead of running a RAID5 array after being burned badly by the production problems caused by RAID5 mode. Bryan did not make opinions about the different kinds of RAID and what 3ware card you should use. He gave detailed explanations on why RAID5 on a 3ware 950x card with a ram module would be fast, why it does not perform on the older series and that has been proven where I work. We have a ten disk box that uses a 950x 3ware card and those ten disks are configured in raid5 mode. It performed while being used as an emergency mail queue doing thousands of deliveries per minute. I was amazed but now I know why thanks to Bryan.
Drop the Bryan is a nuisance mentality.
I think Dag has a handle on things, and I agree with his thoughts. I came from a BSD list, and there, such long flaming, off-topic threads were severely chastised amongst not only the other folks on the list, but the developers as well. Only did a thread get off topic for 3-4 rounds, and it came to a screeching halt, and the list was not moderated. As long as there is someone who will reply to an inflamatory message, there will be problems unless the general membership of the list puts an end to it with firm but no-nonsense replys to the individual(s) involved.
Just my $.02 worth
This is my first post. This also will be my last.
I really must have picked the wrong time to join this list. I joined b/c I was thinking of switching to CentOS at home. We have RHEL at work and it is great, I just can't afford the cost for home.
I first went to Whitebox, but that seems to be plagued by slow updates and a dependency on one person. Then the seriously broken mailing list removal system happened and the list was flooded with unsubscribe requests - this was all before the hurricane hit. Most everyone on that list claimed they were moving to CentOS. So I thought I'd check into it.
What I encountered here is just horrible. I've only seen about a day's worth of posts, but it is one of the worst flame wars I've ever seen. I'm of course not going use CentOS either. With a list like this there will never be any support if I run into a problem. If CentOS is still around in a year or two and I still have found a good distro, I'll check and see if anything has improved.
I'd suggest you take Mr. Knaddison's advice below. #2 seems like the best plan as there will be a forum moderator who can lock threads and delete posts. At worst a flame will only be visible until the moderator gets around to delete it.
Good Bye.
On 9/15/05, Greg Knaddison greg.knaddison@gmail.com wrote:
Possible solutions that require zero involvement from the already busy project team:
- Use your email client to better manage the flow and turn it into a trickle
- Use the forums on your time rather than having it emailed in and
disrupting your life http://www.centos.org/modules/newbb 3. Subscribe to the list using an account that you use specifically for the list (I'll send gmail invites to anyone interested) and only read that account when you want...otherwise, ignore it 4. Unsubscribe
You can combine 2 and 4 for maximum effect.
Given those options, why does the project team need to get involved?
Greg _______________________________________________ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
That's bad to hear. I use CentOS here. I just filter out the noise. All mailing lists have issues from time to time. I have yet to not have a question answered in a nice manner personally.
Tom Cat wrote:
This is my first post. This also will be my last.
I really must have picked the wrong time to join this list. I joined b/c I was thinking of switching to CentOS at home. We have RHEL at work and it is great, I just can't afford the cost for home.
I first went to Whitebox, but that seems to be plagued by slow updates and a dependency on one person. Then the seriously broken mailing list removal system happened and the list was flooded with unsubscribe requests - this was all before the hurricane hit. Most everyone on that list claimed they were moving to CentOS. So I thought I'd check into it.
What I encountered here is just horrible. I've only seen about a day's worth of posts, but it is one of the worst flame wars I've ever seen. I'm of course not going use CentOS either. With a list like this there will never be any support if I run into a problem. If CentOS is still around in a year or two and I still have found a good distro, I'll check and see if anything has improved.
I'd suggest you take Mr. Knaddison's advice below. #2 seems like the best plan as there will be a forum moderator who can lock threads and delete posts. At worst a flame will only be visible until the moderator gets around to delete it.
Good Bye.
On 9/15/05, Greg Knaddison greg.knaddison@gmail.com wrote:
Possible solutions that require zero involvement from the already busy project team:
- Use your email client to better manage the flow and turn it into a trickle
- Use the forums on your time rather than having it emailed in and
disrupting your life http://www.centos.org/modules/newbb 3. Subscribe to the list using an account that you use specifically for the list (I'll send gmail invites to anyone interested) and only read that account when you want...otherwise, ignore it 4. Unsubscribe
You can combine 2 and 4 for maximum effect.
Given those options, why does the project team need to get involved?
Greg _______________________________________________ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos .
Agreed. That's been part of my frustration with the flame wars breaking out here. The fact that this list is far BETTER than most lists I've been on. So I think the bar is raised a little higher here, personally. The last few days aren't normal, unless I'm ignoring large flame wars that have taken place in the past. Either way, I wouldn't let it discourage you, Tom. Most people here will answer your questions respectfully and politely. Johnny and company do a great job putting together this distribution. Like I said, it's a distro I'd pay for (and I *will* put my money where my mouth is when I get the chance).
Preston
On Fri, 2005-09-16 at 10:24 -0400, William Warren wrote:
That's bad to hear. I use CentOS here. I just filter out the noise. All mailing lists have issues from time to time. I have yet to not have a question answered in a nice manner personally.
Tom Cat wrote:
This is my first post. This also will be my last.
I really must have picked the wrong time to join this list. I joined b/c I was thinking of switching to CentOS at home. We have RHEL at work and it is great, I just can't afford the cost for home.
I first went to Whitebox, but that seems to be plagued by slow updates and a dependency on one person. Then the seriously broken mailing list removal system happened and the list was flooded with unsubscribe requests - this was all before the hurricane hit. Most everyone on that list claimed they were moving to CentOS. So I thought I'd check into it.
What I encountered here is just horrible. I've only seen about a day's worth of posts, but it is one of the worst flame wars I've ever seen. I'm of course not going use CentOS either. With a list like this there will never be any support if I run into a problem. If CentOS is still around in a year or two and I still have found a good distro, I'll check and see if anything has improved.
I'd suggest you take Mr. Knaddison's advice below. #2 seems like the best plan as there will be a forum moderator who can lock threads and delete posts. At worst a flame will only be visible until the moderator gets around to delete it.
Good Bye.
On 9/15/05, Greg Knaddison greg.knaddison@gmail.com wrote:
Possible solutions that require zero involvement from the already busy project team:
- Use your email client to better manage the flow and turn it into a trickle
- Use the forums on your time rather than having it emailed in and
disrupting your life http://www.centos.org/modules/newbb 3. Subscribe to the list using an account that you use specifically for the list (I'll send gmail invites to anyone interested) and only read that account when you want...otherwise, ignore it 4. Unsubscribe
You can combine 2 and 4 for maximum effect.
Given those options, why does the project team need to get involved?
Greg _______________________________________________ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos .
William Warren wrote:
That's bad to hear. I use CentOS here. I just filter out the noise. All mailing lists have issues from time to time. I have yet to not have a question answered in a nice manner personally.
Same here. The system is a joy to use, support on the list is generally prompt. It's unfortunate that you chose a "bad hair day" to judge the quality of the list readership. If you filter out the vanishingly small number of blowhards, the S/N is actually rather high.
And if you use RHEL at work, CentOS will be a walk in the park.
Cheers,
On Fri, 2005-09-16 at 10:31 -0400, Chris Mauritz wrote:
William Warren wrote:
That's bad to hear. I use CentOS here. I just filter out the noise. All mailing lists have issues from time to time. I have yet to not have a question answered in a nice manner personally.
Same here. The system is a joy to use, support on the list is generally prompt. It's unfortunate that you chose a "bad hair day" to judge the quality of the list readership. If you filter out the vanishingly small number of blowhards, the S/N is actually rather high.
And if you use RHEL at work, CentOS will be a walk in the park.
That's a good point. Part of the reason why I have a good impression of the list is frankly because I don't read it verbatim. Don't have to. RHEL is so familiar that most of the time I just use the OS and scan the list for anything interesting. I think it would be a shame to throw the baby out with one day's dirty bathwater.
Part of a good distro is a good community, but the distro, thanks to Red Hat and the hard work of Johnny, etc. stands on its own two feet as well.
Preston
On Fri, 2005-09-16 at 10:12 -0400, Tom Cat wrote:
This is my first post. This also will be my last.
I really must have picked the wrong time to join this list. I joined b/c I was thinking of switching to CentOS at home. We have RHEL at work and it is great, I just can't afford the cost for home.
I first went to Whitebox, but that seems to be plagued by slow updates and a dependency on one person. Then the seriously broken mailing list removal system happened and the list was flooded with unsubscribe requests - this was all before the hurricane hit. Most everyone on that list claimed they were moving to CentOS. So I thought I'd check into it.
What I encountered here is just horrible. I've only seen about a day's worth of posts, but it is one of the worst flame wars I've ever seen. I'm of course not going use CentOS either. With a list like this there will never be any support if I run into a problem. If CentOS is still around in a year or two and I still have found a good distro, I'll check and see if anything has improved.
I'd suggest you take Mr. Knaddison's advice below. #2 seems like the best plan as there will be a forum moderator who can lock threads and delete posts. At worst a flame will only be visible until the moderator gets around to delete it.
----- Any mail list is subject to the whims and opinions of the participants involved. This list has a lot of very bright people with a lot of diverse opinions and arguing is sometimes an effective way and sometimes not an effective way to resolve differences of opinion.
CentOS also has forums which you can use to get questions answered but I can assure you that the more knowledgeable users of CentOS aren't likely to monitor the forums.
CentOS is a great project - made even greater by the great minds that participate in it.
If you are going to use Linux, it's best to develop a thicker skin, learn how to simply delete the messages that don't interest or involve you - in essence learn to filter the traffic to your liking. Unfortunately participation in the CentOS list doesn't require periodic Dale Carnegie type training.
Craig
On Fri, 2005-09-16 at 09:12, Tom Cat wrote:
What I encountered here is just horrible. I've only seen about a day's worth of posts, but it is one of the worst flame wars I've ever seen. I'm of course not going use CentOS either. With a list like this there will never be any support if I run into a problem.
I think you've completely missed the big picture. Centos works so well the people using it have little to do but type lengthy emails that are misinterpreted by others... Most of the flame sequences here have in fact been triggered by posters offering too much information and alternate, perhaps better approaches to a problem the original poster refused to consider or politely ignore. I haven't noticed any lack of answers to any requests for help regardless of what else might be going by.
--- Les Mikesell lesmikesell@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, 2005-09-16 at 09:12, Tom Cat wrote:
What I encountered here is just horrible. I've
only seen about a
day's worth of posts, but it is one of the worst
flame wars I've ever
seen. I'm of course not going use CentOS either.
With a list like
this there will never be any support if I run into
a problem.
I think you've completely missed the big picture. Centos works so well the people using it have little to do but type lengthy emails that are misinterpreted by others... Most of the flame sequences here have in fact been triggered by posters offering too much information and alternate, perhaps better approaches to a problem the original poster refused to consider or politely ignore. I haven't noticed any lack of answers to any requests for help regardless of what else might be going by.
-- Les Mikesell lesmikesell@gmail.com
CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
I agree with Les 150%, everytime i have had a question it has been answered and has helped me so much. To be honest i have to thank the Centos Team for all hard work and many hours they donate to keep this project going. I did not realize how much time some of the developers were putting in until couple of them gave examples of the time they spend here. If i had a job right now i wouldn't hesitate to give them a donation, maybe when my business gets up and running i can make that a number 1 priority to donate. Again thank you guys and gals and whatever else there are :-).
Owner and Operator of Little Art Store, Inc. www.littleartstore.com
Steven
"On the side of the software box, in the 'System Requirements' section, it said 'Requires Windows or better'. So I installed Linux."
Let me start by saying that this forum has been extremely helpful for me. I am not sure where I would place myself as far as Linux experience/qualifications, since I believe there are many like me out there (or maybe I am hoping there are) that do not exactly fit into the routine beginner, intermediate or expert classes. Over the last 30 years I have been writing DBMS applications that manage 60-70% of the national class action lawsuits, and being a DBMS oriented programmer, does not out of necessity, expose me to what's under the hood. My concern is that the OS works.
So, every few years I reinstall an upgraded OS for my Windows server and my Linux servers in my home office. Then I just let them run. For Linux, many questions arise that underlines something I have learned over the years: Linux administrators need to understand computers in general and the OS in particular at a very detailed level. Not as true for Windows administrators. I tried by taking a course on Linux admin at a local JC, but only had reinforced how much there is to know and how I respect those that administer Linux systems.
The result is that I try to get the nswers from the many Linux books I have, but asking those of you that have contact daily with Linux more times than not gives me salient answers to my questions.
All I can say is a BIG THANK YOU for your patience and willingness to help. And maybe an apology is needed for asking about YUM, but I just wanted to know (briefly) why some of the Linux Admins do not like it (for me, it is just great). After a few replies the question was adequately answered...for me, it did not take the remainder of replies.
Todd
Robert wrote:
greetings,
can someone(s) in authority please come up with a plan(s) of action in regards to this list medium?
unfortunately this list has pretty much reached the point of no return and has become virtually useless.
- rh
-- Robert - Abba Communications Computers & Internet Sales/Service www.abbacomm.net
CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
On Fri, 2005-09-16 at 07:50 -0700, Todd Cary wrote:
experience/qualifications, since I believe there are many like me out there (or maybe I am hoping there are) that do not exactly fit into the routine beginner, intermediate or expert classes. Over the last 30 years I have been writing DBMS applications that manage 60-70% of the national class action lawsuits, and being a DBMS oriented programmer, does not out of necessity, expose me to what's under the hood. My concern is that the OS works.
You're definitely not alone. I've been using Linux for around 8 years now. 5 year as my primary desktop. I've set it up as a wireless/wired router (before those things were as cheap as they are now, back in the 1mbps wireless days), I've compiled kernels. But mostly I'm a Java/Ruby/SQL developer. So mostly I just need the OS to run as a server/development box/desktop. I'm by no means an expert at Linux. I've never built it from scratch. I know how it works, but largely it's a tool to get stuff done for me. And in my case Linux is the best choice. It's a pragmatic choice, like every other technical choice I make. So you're definitely not alone.
for Windows administrators. I tried by taking a course on Linux admin at a local JC, but only had reinforced how much there is to know and how I respect those that administer Linux systems.
I once considered getting LPI certified. Too much to learn, though. Maybe someday.
Preston
For what its worth, I've lurked in the background most of the time rading mails and generally thinking about unsubscribing recently, thats not because I dislike Centos or anything, far from it, I just think over the past months its got to a stage where some change needs to happen, just mainly down to the sheer volume of mails on the list now per day. Personally I think the centos forums could be redone, I switch between Centos and Ubuntu depending on what I'm doing at the time, and their forums are amazing for help (whereas I think Centos forums are awful and never use them at all and actually puts people off using it if anything), and I think the same would benefit Centos. A general decent faq, sticky threads for common problems, you don't have to read bitch threads and can subscribe to forums/threads if you so choose. I think there's only so much you can get out of a mailing list, and shouldn't be a deciding factor for using a dist or not as if anything its a victim of its own success in my view, but its worth trying to head things in the right direction also when problems do occurr. Ian
On 9/16/05, Todd Cary todd@aristesoftware.com wrote:
Let me start by saying that this forum has been extremely helpful for me. I am not sure where I would place myself as far as Linux experience/qualifications, since I believe there are many like me out there (or maybe I am hoping there are) that do not exactly fit into the routine beginner, intermediate or expert classes. Over the last 30 years I have been writing DBMS applications that manage 60-70% of the national class action lawsuits, and being a DBMS oriented programmer, does not out of necessity, expose me to what's under the hood. My concern is that the OS works.
So, every few years I reinstall an upgraded OS for my Windows server and my Linux servers in my home office. Then I just let them run. For Linux, many questions arise that underlines something I have learned over the years: Linux administrators need to understand computers in general and the OS in particular at a very detailed level. Not as true for Windows administrators. I tried by taking a course on Linux admin at a local JC, but only had reinforced how much there is to know and how I respect those that administer Linux systems.
The result is that I try to get the nswers from the many Linux books I have, but asking those of you that have contact daily with Linux more times than not gives me salient answers to my questions.
All I can say is a BIG THANK YOU for your patience and willingness to help. And maybe an apology is needed for asking about YUM, but I just wanted to know (briefly) why some of the Linux Admins do not like it (for me, it is just great). After a few replies the question was adequately answered...for me, it did not take the remainder of replies.
Todd
Robert wrote:
greetings,
can someone(s) in authority please come up with a plan(s) of action in regards to this list medium?
unfortunately this list has pretty much reached the point of no return
and
has become virtually useless.
- rh
-- Robert - Abba Communications Computers & Internet Sales/Service www.abbacomm.net http://www.abbacomm.net
CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
-- Ariste Software 200 D Street Ext Petaluma, CA 94952 (707) 773-4523
CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
On 15/9/05 9:24 pm, in article 20050915202437.EB1C3F3C270@mail.centos.org, "Robert" roberth@abbacomm.net wrote:
can someone(s) in authority please come up with a plan(s) of action in regards to this list medium?
unfortunately this list has pretty much reached the point of no return and has become virtually useless.
Usenet newsgroups suffer from problems -- like off topic threads and abusive/trolling individuals -- which can also hit high traffic email lists like this one.
Newsreader software has adapted with features like thread- and user-based killing.
You can subscribe to this email list as a newsgroup (NNTP) feed via gmane.org. It's free, and you can still post. I recommended it.
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