Ian Murray wrote on Tue, 11 Aug 2009 05:51:05 +0000 (GMT):
I hit reply and changed the subject.
Please stop doing that.
That's what I do on my local
LUG list and nobody complained so, I don't know if I have committed some list faux pas, so apologies if I have done.
It's wrong for every mail conversation.
Perhaps you can set me straight on where I am going wrong?
Send a new message. If you hit "reply" then the threading information (in -reply-to und references headers) gets inserted as well and thus the message gets threaded to that thread. Opposite to what some people who are new on the net believe the threading is *not* done by the subject but by the threading headers. The subject gets used only in case the threading headers are absent.
Kai
Okay, I stand corrected. Not new to the net, though... and I know threading is not done per subject. I just don't use lists that much and I definitely don't use threading. Fifteen years of internet emailing and you're the first to complain.
To be honest, mistake or otherwise, I didn't appreciate the public telling off. An off-list email would have been more appropriate. In fact, you hijacked a thread to tell me off. No doubt there is a bit of 'afters' from the conversation about CentOS structure. All I am trying to do is make the distribution better. My big concern is that the project should be bigger than the individuals. This does not appear to be the case, in CentOS's case. I guess if you are happy to wait two months for critical security updates to appear because a CentOS developer went on his honeymoon, then that's okay. Don't begrudge anyone their honeymood, far from it, but that isn't the point.
As has been stated many times, it was the devs themselves that highlighted the risk an individual poses to the project, and now it is 'sorted' from their end they can't understand why trust is not immediately returning.
________________________________ From: Kai Schaetzl maillists@conactive.com To: centos@centos.org Sent: Tuesday, 11 August, 2009 10:31:21 Subject: Re: [CentOS] [Off-list] Slow IDE on GeForce 8200 board
Ian Murray wrote on Tue, 11 Aug 2009 05:51:05 +0000 (GMT):
I hit reply and changed the subject.
Please stop doing that.
That's what I do on my local
LUG list and nobody complained so, I don't know if I have committed some list faux pas, so apologies if I have done.
It's wrong for every mail conversation.
Perhaps you can set me straight on where I am going wrong?
Send a new message. If you hit "reply" then the threading information (in -reply-to und references headers) gets inserted as well and thus the message gets threaded to that thread. Opposite to what some people who are new on the net believe the threading is *not* done by the subject but by the threading headers. The subject gets used only in case the threading headers are absent.
Kai
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
Ian Murray wrote:
Okay, I stand corrected. Not new to the net, though... and I know threading is not done per subject. I just don't use lists that much and I definitely don't use threading. Fifteen years of internet emailing and you're the first to complain.
Let me be the second to complain then. Perhaps after 15 years, it is now finally time to learn how to use email properly.
Top posting on replies is also annoying. Conversations are followed top to bottom, not bottom to top.
- -- Mike A. Harris http://mharris.ca | https://twitter.com/mikeaharris
Off-list reply sent.
If anybody feels they must send complaints, execute personal vendettas, issue death threats, etc please do it off-list. Otherwise that would definitely be thread hijacking. :o)
________________________________ From: Mike A. Harris mharris@mharris.ca To: CentOS mailing list centos@centos.org Sent: Wednesday, 12 August, 2009 9:10:32 Subject: Re: [CentOS] [Off-list] Slow IDE on GeForce 8200 board
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
Ian Murray wrote:
Okay, I stand corrected. Not new to the net, though... and I know threading is not done per subject. I just don't use lists that much and I definitely don't use threading. Fifteen years of internet emailing and you're the first to complain.
Let me be the second to complain then. Perhaps after 15 years, it is now finally time to learn how to use email properly.
Top posting on replies is also annoying. Conversations are followed top to bottom, not bottom to top.
- -- Mike A. Harris http://mharris.ca | https://twitter.com/mikeaharris
_______________________________________________ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
On Aug 12, 2009, at 6:23 AM, Ian Murray murrayie@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
If anybody feels they must send complaints, execute personal vendettas, issue death threats, etc please do it off-list.
actually, enforcing community norms in public is useful and important. an off-list message educates only the recipient, while a public message educates not only the recipient but also other new readers.
-steve
actually, enforcing community norms in public is useful
Belittlment and patronisation is a community norm?
________________________________ From: Steve Huff shuff@vecna.org To: CentOS mailing list centos@centos.org Sent: Wednesday, 12 August, 2009 13:39:20 Subject: Re: [CentOS] [Off-list] Slow IDE on GeForce 8200 board
On Aug 12, 2009, at 6:23 AM, Ian Murray murrayie@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
If anybody feels they must send complaints, execute personal vendettas, issue death threats, etc please do it off-list.
actually, enforcing community norms in public is useful and important. an off-list message educates only the recipient, while a public message educates not only the recipient but also other new readers.
-steve
On Wed, 2009-08-12 at 13:11 +0000, Ian Murray wrote:
actually, enforcing community norms in public is useful
Belittlment and patronisation is a community norm?
<snip>
It normally is not offered as "belittlement and Patronisation" nor taken as such. It is normally offered as generous education and introduction to "norms" of list behaviour and accepted as such. Those with thin skins seem to not understand this. Nor do they understand that many factors make "abbreviated" posts, which can be easily taken as "harsh", a desirable thing. As with any human thing, extremes cme into play and perceptions, background, whats "expected" all influence the results.
It takes extra effort to add those few little words and phrases that may "soften" the perception. Not all are willing, or even aware of, these issues.
Just make your skin thicker and keep on truckin'.
Hi Ian,
On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 04:10, Mike A. Harrismharris@mharris.ca wrote:
Let me be the second to complain then. Perhaps after 15 years, it is now finally time to learn how to use email properly.
Top posting on replies is also annoying. Conversations are followed top to bottom, not bottom to top.
And while we're at it, please do not send e-mails as HTML to the list, configure your e-mail client to send them as text-only.
See "Guidelines for CentOS Mailing List Posts" in this page: http://www.centos.org/modules/tinycontent/index.php?id=16
Even if you use a webmail, it should support configuring that. A quick Google for how to do it in Yahoo Mail led me to this page: http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/listadmins/plaintext.html#yahoo (not sure if it is updated and still works this way, if not please use "Help" in Yahoo Mail or Google for it.)
And please don't take any of this personally, we're just trying to help here.
Cheers, Filipe
Ian Murray a écrit :
Okay, I stand corrected. Not new to the net, though... and I know threading is not done per subject. I just don't use lists that much and I definitely don't use threading. Fifteen years of internet emailing and you're the first to complain.
Guess it's never too late to learn how to do things correctly. Most folks know how to use their email client in the sense that chickens fly and horses swim.
Niki Kovacs
-
Filipe Brandenburger -
Ian Murray -
Kai Schaetzl -
Mike A. Harris -
Niki Kovacs -
Steve Huff -
William L. Maltby