I would like to add something, as a South African citizen. South Africa, is NOT part of Africa for that matter, it's a republic on it's own. It's almost like saying "Let's ban America, cause someone in Mexico spammed me". South Africa, which is on the 196/8 range does a LOT of business overseas in many countries, and I do want to warn that you could loose a lot of good business due to this practice.
Most of the fraud you experience could come from Nigeria, or one of the other central & western Africa countries. To ban a whole continent because of problems some countries cause could be problematic.
For that matter is China a different country from Russia, from Switzerland, even though they share the same land mass
On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 7:44 AM, Tony Wicks tonyw@tonywicks.com wrote:
I would like to add something, as a South African citizen. South Africa, is NOT part of Africa for that matter, it's a republic on it's own. It's almost like saying "Let's ban America, cause someone in Mexico spammed me". South Africa, which is on the 196/8 range does a LOT of business overseas in many countries, and I do want to warn that you could loose a lot of good business due to this practice.
Most of the fraud you experience could come from Nigeria, or one of the other central & western Africa countries. To ban a whole continent because of problems some countries cause could be problematic.
For that matter is China a different country from Russia, from Switzerland, even though they share the same land mass
--
I need to put my 2c in here. I'm from New Zealand, we are a first world democratic country (the first in the worlds to give the vote to ALL adults I may mention). I have had the misfortune many of times of being unable to transact business because people from the US in their ignorance think, that New Zealand, isn't that part of Australia, which is right next to Asia, can't do business with those Asians, they will rip me off. Now sometimes people from the US have asked me why people in the other parts of the world get a bit annoyed at the "the only country that is free and true if the good old US of A" attitude, and well here you go as an example. Lets ban all of Africa because someone from Nigeria is a scammer. Africa is a pretty big place, and you know what, I've met many South Africans that are real nice (even employed a few). I've always been someone who defends America when people run it down, but it is a two way street, don't treat a whole country as criminals because you don't know the difference between one side of a continent from another, its kind of insulting you know. And some day you might well need the rest of us, you never know.
CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
This is clearly a delicate subject. As someone pointed out, if the nature of your business does not lend itself to business transactions from other countries, then it should not negatively impact a potential legitimate customer from that range of IP from doing business with you because it would never happen. A friend of mine has an automotive repair shop (who's business would only come from area residents) and sells tires. He once received a call from someone from outside the country looking to purchase 4 tires (some of the higher end ones) and have them shipped. It was a stolen credit card and he pretty much knew that so never processed the order. An employee might not have been as alert or as diligent and might have processed it. This could have just as easily been via email. Point is in his case if his business does not lend itself to having customers or suppliers originating from a particular geographical area, then blocking anything from that geographical area would not impact him or a legitimate customer. No harm, no foul. It would protect his business from potential scam activity from outside his area (if it comes from within, then hopefully it wasn't someone going through a proxy so therefore hopefully someone within the reach of the long arm of the law).
Someone pointed out that 100% of the traffic they receive from Africa are scams. That does not mean that 100% of all the traffic originating from Africa are scams. There is a difference. In the first instance it's 100% of the traffic that THEY receive whereas in the second case it's 100% of ALL traffic (including the millions of messages floating out there that the person who made that statement DOES NOT receive). However it lends great support to the argument. His business no doubt does not lend itself to having customers from that part of the world. Therefore he would never see legitimate traffic coming from there as legitimate individuals from there would have no reason to seek to do business from there. So the only traffic he sees (hence 100% of the traffic he sees) originating from there are scams because only the scammers from Africa would have reason to seek to contact him under the pretext of a business transaction.
A business in Africa with no business ties to North America (hence would see no emails from customers or suppliers coming from North America) could possibly make the same statement, that 100% of the emails they receive from North America are scams. Because the honest North American has no valid reason to seek a business transaction with them much like the honest African has no reason to seek a business transaction with many companies in North America. So in that case it would be equally appropriate for that African company to block emails from North Amercian IPs.
A company could have a contact page on their site for someone who wishes to contact them thus allowing anyone the ability to contact them in this fashion (one which a scammer is not likely to use because it's a manual, tedious process vs email shotgun approach).
If your company does potentially do business with any part of the world, then this is obviously not a good solution. In addition to all this you will want to train your employees to recognize a potential scam either via email or phone. These days with VoIP it is no longer cost prohibitive for someone to run phone scams from half way across the world.
My 2 cents as well.
Jacques B.
On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 7:44 AM, Tony Wicks tonyw@tonywicks.com wrote:
I would like to add something, as a South African citizen. South Africa, is NOT part of Africa for that matter, it's a republic on it's own. It's almost like saying "Let's ban America, cause someone in Mexico spammed me". South Africa, which is on the 196/8 range does a LOT of business overseas in many countries, and I do want to warn that you could loose a lot of good business due to this practice.
Most of the fraud you experience could come from Nigeria, or one of the other central & western Africa countries. To ban a whole continent because of problems some countries cause could be problematic.
For that matter is China a different country from Russia, from Switzerland, even though they share the same land mass
--
I need to put my 2c in here. I'm from New Zealand, we are a first world democratic country (the first in the worlds to give the vote to ALL adults I may mention). I have had the misfortune many of times of being unable to transact business because people from the US in their ignorance think, that New Zealand, isn't that part of Australia, which is right next to Asia, can't do business with those Asians, they will rip me off. Now sometimes people from the US have asked me why people in the other parts of the world get a bit annoyed at the "the only country that is free and true if the good old US of A" attitude, and well here you go as an example. Lets ban all of Africa because someone from Nigeria is a scammer. Africa is a pretty big place, and you know what, I've met many South Africans that are real nice (even employed a few). I've always been someone who defends America when people run it down, but it is a two way street, don't treat a whole country as criminals because you don't know the difference between one side of a continent from another, its kind of insulting you know. And some day you might well need the rest of us, you never know.
If a business only wants to do transaction with people in their own country, what is wrong with that? There is no international law that says they have to provide services or products to you because you live in a different country. Sometimes the lost revenue by not doing business outside your own country is better than having to deal with the possibility of fraud. Sometimes it is more of a hassle to deal with shipping, service and/or support issues with people from a different country and it's just not worth it.
At 09:38 AM 7/1/2008, you wrote:
On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 7:44 AM, Tony Wicks <mailto:tonyw@tonywicks.comtonyw@tonywicks.com> wrote:
I would like to add something, as a South African citizen. South Africa, is NOT part of Africa for that matter, it's a republic on it's own. It's almost like saying "Let's ban America, cause someone in Mexico spammed me". South Africa, which is on the 196/8 range does a LOT of business overseas in many countries, and I do want to warn that you could loose a lot of good business due to this practice.
Most of the fraud you experience could come from Nigeria, or one of the other central & western Africa countries. To ban a whole continent because of problems some countries cause could be problematic.
For that matter is China a different country from Russia, from Switzerland, even though they share the same land mass
--
I need to put my 2c in here. I'm from New Zealand, we are a first world democratic country (the first in the worlds to give the vote to ALL adults I may mention). I have had the misfortune many of times of being unable to transact business because people from the US in their ignorance think, that New Zealand, isn't that part of Australia, which is right next to Asia, can't do business with those Asians, they will rip me off. Now sometimes people from the US have asked me why people in the other parts of the world get a bit annoyed at the "the only country that is free and true if the good old US of A" attitude, and well here you go as an example. Lets ban all of Africa because someone from Nigeria is a scammer. Africa is a pretty big place, and you know what, I've met many South Africans that are real nice (even employed a few). I've always been someone who defends America when people run it down, but it is a two way street, don't treat a whole country as criminals because you don't know the difference between one side of a continent from another, its kind of insulting you know. And some day you might well need the rest of us, you never know.
If a business only wants to do transaction with people in their own country, what is wrong with that? There is no international law that says they have to provide services or products to you because you live in a different country. Sometimes the lost revenue by not doing business outside your own country is better than having to deal with the possibility of fraud. Sometimes it is more of a hassle to deal with shipping, service and/or support issues with people from a different country and it's just not worth it.
-- -matt
Hello All,
I've seen a lot of very good and valid comments come out of this discussion!
I had a mail server that, initially, had no need for foreign (Outside US) communication. Then exceptions started highly complicating the situation.
I used this database lookup to compile a list, by country, of those I wanted to block based upon my mail server's history with communications with them and on the histories of my users/customers.
Very useful tool!
Cheers, Glenn Parsons
Glenn wrote:
At 09:38 AM 7/1/2008, you wrote:
On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 7:44 AM, Tony Wicks <mailto:tonyw@tonywicks.comtonyw@tonywicks.com> wrote:
I would like to add something, as a South African citizen. South Africa, is NOT part of Africa for that matter, it's a republic on it's own. It's almost like saying "Let's ban America, cause someone in Mexico spammed me". South Africa, which is on the 196/8 range does a LOT of business overseas in many countries, and I do want to warn that you could loose a lot of good business due to this practice.
Most of the fraud you experience could come from Nigeria, or one of the other central & western Africa countries. To ban a whole continent because of problems some countries cause could be problematic.
For that matter is China a different country from Russia, from Switzerland, even though they share the same land mass
--
I need to put my 2c in here. I'm from New Zealand, we are a first world democratic country (the first in the worlds to give the vote to ALL adults I may mention). I have had the misfortune many of times of being unable to transact business because people from the US in their ignorance think, that New Zealand, isn't that part of Australia, which is right next to Asia, can't do business with those Asians, they will rip me off. Now sometimes people from the US have asked me why people in the other parts of the world get a bit annoyed at the "the only country that is free and true if the good old US of A" attitude, and well here you go as an example. Lets ban all of Africa because someone from Nigeria is a scammer. Africa is a pretty big place, and you know what, I've met many South Africans that are real nice (even employed a few). I've always been someone who defends America when people run it down, but it is a two way street, don't treat a whole country as criminals because you don't know the difference between one side of a continent from another, its kind of insulting you know. And some day you might well need the rest of us, you never know.
If a business only wants to do transaction with people in their own country, what is wrong with that? There is no international law that says they have to provide services or products to you because you live in a different country. Sometimes the lost revenue by not doing business outside your own country is better than having to deal with the possibility of fraud. Sometimes it is more of a hassle to deal with shipping, service and/or support issues with people from a different country and it's just not worth it.
-- -matt
Hello All,
I've seen a lot of very good and valid comments come out of this discussion!
I had a mail server that, initially, had no need for foreign (Outside US) communication. Then exceptions started highly complicating the situation.
I used this database lookup to compile a list, by country, of those I wanted to block based upon my mail server's history with communications with them and on the histories of my users/customers.
Very useful tool!
Cheers, Glenn Parsons
Combine that with this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_continent_(data_file)
and then can you eliminate a continent or two of your wish.
/Mats
This is a bit naive and childish:
"how terribly shocking...I suggest also blocking China, 'cause they're commies, and France because they eat frogs"
The OP is not discriminating against Africa because of government systems, skin color, or diet. He is trying to reduce lost revenue, credit card refunds and time due to fraudulent orders that almost all originate from the African continent. The reality is that Nigeria is the 419 internet scam capital of the world, and the Nigerian scammers sometimes work from other African nations or even the UK. If someone in Africa really, really must have something that Matt sells then they should pay with Western Union or international money order instead of a credit card.
On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 3:03 PM, Sean Carolan scarolan@gmail.com wrote:
This is a bit naive and childish:
"how terribly shocking...I suggest also blocking China, 'cause they're commies, and France because they eat frogs"
The OP is not discriminating against Africa because of government systems, skin color, or diet. He is trying to reduce lost revenue, credit card refunds and time due to fraudulent orders that almost all originate from the African continent. The reality is that Nigeria is the 419 internet scam capital of the world, and the Nigerian scammers sometimes work from other African nations or even the UK. If someone in Africa really, really must have something that Matt sells then they should pay with Western Union or international money order instead of a credit card.
Ever heard of the Western Union scam? No offense to anyone in any other country, but personally I prefer to deal with people in the US who are covered by US laws. My comments above had absolutely nothing to do with race, color, nationality, religion, etc. It's because it's easier to go after someone legally if they try to rip me off and they are in the same country as me. And I know there a lot of businesses that have taken the same stance on who they will sell products to.
Ever heard of the Western Union scam?
Yes, it usually goes something like this:
Scammer emails an online business asking if he can over-pay you with a check. The check looks just like any other business check and is often printed with the name of a real bank. The scammer then asks you to send him back the balance via Western Union. He walks down to the local Western Union office, picks up his moneygram and goes on his merry way.
Western Union is a relatively safe and convenient way to transport money to or from international destinations, hence the 419 scammers like to use it as a way to receive funds.
Sean Carolan wrote:
Ever heard of the Western Union scam?Yes, it usually goes something like this:
Scammer emails an online business asking if he can over-pay you with a check. The check looks just like any other business check and is often printed with the name of a real bank. The scammer then asks you to send him back the balance via Western Union. He walks down to the local Western Union office, picks up his moneygram and goes on his merry way.
This conversation is really heading off into OT lands here on this list. Please take it elsewhere.
Matt Shields wrote:
On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 3:03 PM, Sean Carolan wrote:
This is a bit naive and childish: "how terribly shocking...I suggest also blocking China, 'cause they're commies, and France because they eat frogs" The OP is not discriminating against Africa because of government systems, skin color, or diet.
whoa Sean, don't be first degree like that :-) "diet", come on man don't look at the finger pointing to the moon...
No offense to anyone in any other country, but personally I prefer to deal with people in the US who are covered by US laws.
ok Matt, that I can adhere to.
But Africa is a continent, close to one billion people live there. Specifically blocking all of Africa for a few Nigerian scammers... Block Nigeria, or block everything except the US.
Sean Carolan wrote:
This is a bit naive and childish:
"how terribly shocking...I suggest also blocking China, 'cause they're commies, and France because they eat frogs"
The OP is not discriminating against Africa because of government systems, skin color, or diet. He is trying to reduce lost revenue, credit card refunds and time due to fraudulent orders that almost all originate from the African continent. The reality is that Nigeria is the 419 internet scam capital of the world, and the Nigerian scammers sometimes work from other African nations or even the UK. If someone in Africa really, really must have something that Matt sells then they should pay with Western Union or international money order instead of a credit card.
CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
True, but Nigeria is one of the many countries on the Continent Africa. Africa isn't a country, at all, it's a continent on it's own, with many countries, which I think some people don't understand.
-
Glenn -
Jacques B. -
Karanbir Singh -
Matt Shields -
mkn0014 -
Nicolas Thierry-Mieg -
Rudi Ahlers -
Sean Carolan -
Tony Wicks