I couldn't help but take notice at some of the responses that were coming in from when I was posting questions due to my ignorance of Linux. Some people were quick to help, some advanced users I am sure ignored me because im not worth their time, and then some other users tried to help but was unable to dumb their speech down to newb levels. However I am thankful that there is people here to help out. I am hoping someone with CentOS will take notice at my difficulty in finding the bloody manuals and will put a link for future newbs that says "Download Manuals Here". I also hope in the future if I have questions I will be able to get the answers I seek and those who helped me before will be able to help me again.
Thanks
On Tue, 2006-04-11 at 08:10 -0500, Chris Peikert wrote:
I couldn’t help but take notice at some of the responses that were coming in from when I was posting questions due to my ignorance of Linux. Some people were quick to help, some advanced users I am sure ignored me because im not worth their time, and then some other users tried to help but was unable to dumb their speech down to newb levels. However I am thankful that there is people here to help out. I am hoping someone with CentOS will take notice at my difficulty in finding the bloody manuals and will put a link for future newbs that says “Download Manuals Here”. I also hope in the future if I have questions I will be able to get the answers I seek and those who helped me before will be able to help me again.
---- CentOS is probably less accustomed to having Linux newbies than say Fedora, Mandriva, Ubuntu, SuSE, etc. Those are more geared for the end user whereas CentOS is based on the Enterprise version of Red Hat stuff which is less 'cutting edge' when it comes to the end users desktop. "Most" CentOS users are using it with servers than on desktops.
The 'old guard' of UNIX/Linux is quite used to saying RTFM and most here are 'old guard' - it's not personal.
As to making CentOS more newbie friendly...there are some who will and some who won't bother but it's not personal.
Craig
What is RTFM and FWIW? I saw those 2 unknown terms in replies to what I posted. As for local Linux users I am in a small town and the closest place that would have something like that would be Houston which is a good hour and half away. Same goes for bookstores. The typical person living in my area looks like Larry the Cable Guy.
-----Original Message----- From: centos-bounces@centos.org [mailto:centos-bounces@centos.org] On Behalf Of Craig White Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 8:37 AM To: CentOS mailing list Subject: Re: [CentOS] WOW
On Tue, 2006-04-11 at 08:10 -0500, Chris Peikert wrote:
I couldn't help but take notice at some of the responses that were coming in from when I was posting questions due to my ignorance of Linux. Some people were quick to help, some advanced users I am sure ignored me because im not worth their time, and then some other users tried to help but was unable to dumb their speech down to newb levels. However I am thankful that there is people here to help out. I am hoping someone with CentOS will take notice at my difficulty in finding the bloody manuals and will put a link for future newbs that says "Download Manuals Here". I also hope in the future if I have questions I will be able to get the answers I seek and those who helped me before will be able to help me again.
---- CentOS is probably less accustomed to having Linux newbies than say Fedora, Mandriva, Ubuntu, SuSE, etc. Those are more geared for the end user whereas CentOS is based on the Enterprise version of Red Hat stuff which is less 'cutting edge' when it comes to the end users desktop. "Most" CentOS users are using it with servers than on desktops.
The 'old guard' of UNIX/Linux is quite used to saying RTFM and most here are 'old guard' - it's not personal.
As to making CentOS more newbie friendly...there are some who will and some who won't bother but it's not personal.
Craig
_______________________________________________ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Chris Peikert spake the following on 4/11/2006 9:21 AM:
What is RTFM and FWIW? I saw those 2 unknown terms in replies to what I posted. As for local Linux users I am in a small town and the closest place that would have something like that would be Houston which is a good hour and half away. Same goes for bookstores. The typical person living in my
RTFM = Read The Fine (or other expletive starting with F - depends on the mood of the writer) Manual http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RTFM
FWIW = For What It's Worth http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/FWIW
Wikipedia and Wiktionary are good for this kind of thing.
RTFM = Read The Fricking Manual FWIW = For What It's Worth
Larry the Cable guy is from my area. (about 40 miles south of me in the East corner of Nebraska)
On Tue, 2006-04-11 at 11:21 -0500, Chris Peikert wrote:
What is RTFM and FWIW? I saw those 2 unknown terms in replies to what I posted. As for local Linux users I am in a small town and the closest place that would have something like that would be Houston which is a good hour and half away. Same goes for bookstores. The typical person living in my area looks like Larry the Cable Guy.
-----Original Message----- From: centos-bounces@centos.org [mailto:centos-bounces@centos.org] On Behalf Of Craig White Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 8:37 AM To: CentOS mailing list Subject: Re: [CentOS] WOW
On Tue, 2006-04-11 at 08:10 -0500, Chris Peikert wrote:
I couldn't help but take notice at some of the responses that were coming in from when I was posting questions due to my ignorance of Linux. Some people were quick to help, some advanced users I am sure ignored me because im not worth their time, and then some other users tried to help but was unable to dumb their speech down to newb levels. However I am thankful that there is people here to help out. I am hoping someone with CentOS will take notice at my difficulty in finding the bloody manuals and will put a link for future newbs that says "Download Manuals Here". I also hope in the future if I have questions I will be able to get the answers I seek and those who helped me before will be able to help me again.
CentOS is probably less accustomed to having Linux newbies than say Fedora, Mandriva, Ubuntu, SuSE, etc. Those are more geared for the end user whereas CentOS is based on the Enterprise version of Red Hat stuff which is less 'cutting edge' when it comes to the end users desktop. "Most" CentOS users are using it with servers than on desktops.
The 'old guard' of UNIX/Linux is quite used to saying RTFM and most here are 'old guard' - it's not personal.
As to making CentOS more newbie friendly...there are some who will and some who won't bother but it's not personal.
Craig
CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Jaymz Ringler spake the following on 4/11/2006 9:28 AM:
RTFM = Read The Fricking Manual FWIW = For What It's Worth
Larry the Cable guy is from my area. (about 40 miles south of me in the East corner of Nebraska)
Git Er Done!!!
On Tue, 2006-04-11 at 11:21 -0500, Chris Peikert wrote:
What is RTFM and FWIW? I saw those 2 unknown terms in replies to what I posted. As for local Linux users I am in a small town and the closest place that would have something like that would be Houston which is a good hour and half away. Same goes for bookstores. The typical person living in my area looks like Larry the Cable Guy.
-----Original Message----- From: centos-bounces@centos.org [mailto:centos-bounces@centos.org] On Behalf Of Craig White Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 8:37 AM To: CentOS mailing list Subject: Re: [CentOS] WOW
On Tue, 2006-04-11 at 08:10 -0500, Chris Peikert wrote:
I couldn't help but take notice at some of the responses that were coming in from when I was posting questions due to my ignorance of Linux. Some people were quick to help, some advanced users I am sure ignored me because im not worth their time, and then some other users tried to help but was unable to dumb their speech down to newb levels. However I am thankful that there is people here to help out. I am hoping someone with CentOS will take notice at my difficulty in finding the bloody manuals and will put a link for future newbs that says "Download Manuals Here". I also hope in the future if I have questions I will be able to get the answers I seek and those who helped me before will be able to help me again.
CentOS is probably less accustomed to having Linux newbies than say Fedora, Mandriva, Ubuntu, SuSE, etc. Those are more geared for the end user whereas CentOS is based on the Enterprise version of Red Hat stuff which is less 'cutting edge' when it comes to the end users desktop. "Most" CentOS users are using it with servers than on desktops.
The 'old guard' of UNIX/Linux is quite used to saying RTFM and most here are 'old guard' - it's not personal.
As to making CentOS more newbie friendly...there are some who will and some who won't bother but it's not personal.
Craig
CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
RTFM=Read the Fine(or F'ing) manual FWIW= for what it's worth
Chris Peikert wrote:
What is RTFM and FWIW? I saw those 2 unknown terms in replies to what I posted. As for local Linux users I am in a small town and the closest place that would have something like that would be Houston which is a good hour and half away. Same goes for bookstores. The typical person living in my area looks like Larry the Cable Guy.
-----Original Message----- From: centos-bounces@centos.org [mailto:centos-bounces@centos.org] On Behalf Of Craig White Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 8:37 AM To: CentOS mailing list Subject: Re: [CentOS] WOW
On Tue, 2006-04-11 at 08:10 -0500, Chris Peikert wrote:
I couldn't help but take notice at some of the responses that were coming in from when I was posting questions due to my ignorance of Linux. Some people were quick to help, some advanced users I am sure ignored me because im not worth their time, and then some other users tried to help but was unable to dumb their speech down to newb levels. However I am thankful that there is people here to help out. I am hoping someone with CentOS will take notice at my difficulty in finding the bloody manuals and will put a link for future newbs that says "Download Manuals Here". I also hope in the future if I have questions I will be able to get the answers I seek and those who helped me before will be able to help me again.
CentOS is probably less accustomed to having Linux newbies than say Fedora, Mandriva, Ubuntu, SuSE, etc. Those are more geared for the end user whereas CentOS is based on the Enterprise version of Red Hat stuff which is less 'cutting edge' when it comes to the end users desktop. "Most" CentOS users are using it with servers than on desktops.
The 'old guard' of UNIX/Linux is quite used to saying RTFM and most here are 'old guard' - it's not personal.
As to making CentOS more newbie friendly...there are some who will and some who won't bother but it's not personal.
Craig
CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
On Apr 11, 2006, at 12:21 PM, Chris Peikert wrote:
What is RTFM and FWIW? I saw those 2 unknown terms in replies to what I posted. As for local Linux users I am in a small town and the closest place that would have something like that would be Houston which is a good hour and half away. Same goes for bookstores. The typical person living in my area looks like Larry the Cable Guy.
There are several jargon sites on the web; here is one: http://foldoc.org/
enter RTFM in the text window
Tony S
Chris Peikert wrote:
What is RTFM and FWIW? I saw those 2 unknown terms in replies to what I posted. As for local Linux users I am in a small town and the closest place that would have something like that would be Houston which is a good hour and half away. Same goes for bookstores. The typical person living in my area looks like Larry the Cable Guy.
RTFM=Read The Fu...er...Fine Manual. FWIW=For What It's Worth.
A good place to start are the manuals for RedHat Enterprise Linux, which can be found here:
http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/
Since RHEL and CentOS are virtually identical, those manuals (with VERY few exceptions) are perfectly suitable as CentOS manuals.
Cheers,
On Tue, 2006-04-11 at 11:32, Chris Mauritz wrote:
Chris Peikert wrote:
What is RTFM and FWIW? I saw those 2 unknown terms in replies to what I posted. As for local Linux users I am in a small town and the closest place that would have something like that would be Houston which is a good hour and half away. Same goes for bookstores. The typical person living in my area looks like Larry the Cable Guy.
RTFM=Read The Fu...er...Fine Manual. FWIW=For What It's Worth.
A good place to start are the manuals for RedHat Enterprise Linux, which can be found here:
http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/
Since RHEL and CentOS are virtually identical, those manuals (with VERY few exceptions) are perfectly suitable as CentOS manuals.
Is it really that hard to go to http://www.centos.org, drop down the 'information' menu bar, click 'documentation' and see 'manuals'? Or did it have to be in a downloadable form, not on-line?
Les Mikesell wrote:
On Tue, 2006-04-11 at 11:32, Chris Mauritz wrote:
Chris Peikert wrote:
What is RTFM and FWIW? I saw those 2 unknown terms in replies to what I posted. As for local Linux users I am in a small town and the closest place that would have something like that would be Houston which is a good hour and half away. Same goes for bookstores. The typical person living in my area looks like Larry the Cable Guy.
RTFM=Read The Fu...er...Fine Manual. FWIW=For What It's Worth.
A good place to start are the manuals for RedHat Enterprise Linux, which can be found here:
http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/
Since RHEL and CentOS are virtually identical, those manuals (with VERY few exceptions) are perfectly suitable as CentOS manuals.
Is it really that hard to go to http://www.centos.org, drop down the 'information' menu bar, click 'documentation' and see 'manuals'? Or did it have to be in a downloadable form, not on-line?
Or you can do that. It's been a while since I parsed the CentOS website. I didn't know they had those fancy online manuals. If you want to print out a PDF manual, the RHEL ones are nice too. Take your pick.
Cheers,
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
On Tue, Apr 11, 2006 at 11:21:49AM -0500, Chris Peikert wrote:
What is RTFM and FWIW?
Oh my. There we go again:
RTFM = Read the (1) Manual
Pick one of the options below for (1):
- Fscking - Fabulous - Fine - Friendly - Fantastic (...)
- -- Rodrigo Barbosa rodrigob@suespammers.org "Quid quid Latine dictum sit, altum viditur" "Be excellent to each other ..." - Bill & Ted (Wyld Stallyns)
On Tue, 2006-04-11 at 11:21 -0500, Chris Peikert wrote:
What is RTFM and FWIW? I saw those 2 unknown terms in replies to what I posted. As for local Linux users I am in a small town and the closest place that would have something like that would be Houston which is a good hour and half away. Same goes for bookstores. The typical person living in my area looks like Larry the Cable Guy.
RTFM=Read The F***ing Manual
dunno bout FWIW
fwiw - for what it's worth afaik - as far as i know atm - at the moment
acronyms for the typing-challenged...
On Tue, 2006-04-11 at 12:22 -0500, rado wrote:
On Tue, 2006-04-11 at 11:21 -0500, Chris Peikert wrote:
What is RTFM and FWIW? I saw those 2 unknown terms in replies to what I posted. As for local Linux users I am in a small town and the closest place that would have something like that would be Houston which is a good hour and half away. Same goes for bookstores. The typical person living in my area looks like Larry the Cable Guy.
RTFM=Read The F***ing Manual
dunno bout FWIW
CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
On Tue, 2006-04-11 at 06:37 -0700, Craig White wrote:
On Tue, 2006-04-11 at 08:10 -0500, Chris Peikert wrote:
I couldn’t help but take notice at some of the responses that were coming in from when I was posting questions due to my ignorance of Linux. Some people were quick to help, some advanced users I am sure ignored me because im not worth their time, and then some other users tried to help but was unable to dumb their speech down to newb levels. However I am thankful that there is people here to help out. I am hoping someone with CentOS will take notice at my difficulty in finding the bloody manuals and will put a link for future newbs that says “Download Manuals Here”. I also hope in the future if I have questions I will be able to get the answers I seek and those who helped me before will be able to help me again.
CentOS is probably less accustomed to having Linux newbies than say Fedora, Mandriva, Ubuntu, SuSE, etc. Those are more geared for the end user whereas CentOS is based on the Enterprise version of Red Hat stuff which is less 'cutting edge' when it comes to the end users desktop. "Most" CentOS users are using it with servers than on desktops.
The 'old guard' of UNIX/Linux is quite used to saying RTFM and most here are 'old guard' - it's not personal.
As to making CentOS more newbie friendly...there are some who will and some who won't bother but it's not personal.
Craig
Well put Craig...do your homework first then come here
John
Chris -
FWIW I fall into a category that is part newbie and part experienced in that I have been using Linux since it's first release *BUT* I just use it to run a server so I can have FTP for my daily updates to the applications I maintain for my client and have proof sheets of my photos for the local newspaper and other entities.
Once the server is running, it is left alone...sometimes for over a year, so anything I may know is just about forgotten (my daily work is in Windows). This forum has been a great asset for me, though I will from time to time use a forum more newbie oriented if I know from past experience that I "should really know the answer".
Todd
Chris Peikert wrote:
I couldn't help but take notice at some of the responses that were coming in from when I was posting questions due to my ignorance of Linux. Some people were quick to help, some advanced users I am sure ignored me because im not worth their time, and then some other users tried to help but was unable to dumb their speech down to newb levels. However I am thankful that there is people here to help out. I am hoping someone with CentOS will take notice at my difficulty in finding the bloody manuals and will put a link for future newbs that says "Download Manuals Here". I also hope in the future if I have questions I will be able to get the answers I seek and those who helped me before will be able to help me again.
Thanks
CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
--- Chris Peikert c.peikert@co.matagorda.tx.us wrote:
I couldn't help but take notice at some of the responses that were coming in from when I was posting questions due to my ignorance of Linux. Some people were quick to help, some advanced users I am sure ignored me because im not worth their time, and then some other users tried to help but was unable to dumb their speech down to newb levels. However I am thankful that there is people here to help out. I am hoping someone with CentOS will take notice at my difficulty in finding the bloody manuals and will put a link for future newbs that says "Download Manuals Here". I also hope in the future if I have questions I will be able to get the answers I seek and those who helped me before will be able to help me again.
Thanks
It may help if you joined a local library and found one of the many Redhat/RHEL books that assume your a complete newbie. The good thing about RHEL/CentOS/Fedora is the availability of documentation/books/dvds in bookstores and libraries. For example the Fedora 3 unleased book is of some use to CentOS 4 since 87% of the apps in Fedora made it to CentOS 4.
- You may also consider joining a LUG (Linux User Group) near you. - Try the "man yum" to check out info on yum. - Do a --help on a command - Do not run as root incase you damage your system with a wrong command.
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On 4/11/06, Chris Peikert c.peikert@co.matagorda.tx.us wrote:
I couldn't help but take notice at some of the responses that were coming in from when I was posting questions due to my ignorance of Linux. Some people were quick to help, some advanced users I am sure ignored me because im not worth their time, and then some other users tried to help but was unable to dumb their speech down to newb levels. However I am thankful that there is people here to help out. I am hoping someone with CentOS will take notice at my difficulty in finding the bloody manuals and will put a link for future newbs that says "Download Manuals Here". I also hope in the future if I have questions I will be able to get the answers I seek and those who helped me before will be able to help me again.
IMHO (in my humble opinion) www.google.com is one of the best sources of answers for most questions.
e.g., Google 'linux manual' and the first hit is http://www.tldp.org/tldp-redirect.php (the Linux Documentation Project).
If you Google 'centos manual' the first hit is <mirror.centos.org/centos/4/docs/html/yumex/> which can be considered as a clue to look at http://mirror.centos.org/centos/4/docs/.
In most cases, the Google approach works better than a mailing list if you are in a hurry for the answer and don't know the policy and culture of the list you are about to mail to.
Google is in the business to make money from your visit to the Google site and is much less likely to exhibit some of the behavioral charactertistics described elsewhere in this thread :)
rgds/ldv
On Tue, 2006-04-11 at 08:10 -0500, Chris Peikert wrote:
I couldn’t help but take notice at some of the responses that were coming in from when I was posting questions due to my ignorance of Linux. Some people were quick to help, some advanced users I am sure ignored me because im not worth their time, and then some other users tried to help but was unable to dumb their speech down to newb levels. However I am thankful that there is people here to help out. I am hoping someone with CentOS will take notice at my difficulty in finding the bloody manuals and will put a link for future newbs that says “Download Manuals Here”. I also hope in the future if I have questions I will be able to get the answers I seek and those who helped me before will be able to help me again.
Chris, hummm, I don't really know how to take this msg. 1st, This msg is flows by really a theme that is really the "goodness of the heart" of just about everyone. This is not really a business kind of a deal. If you hang around linux very long you should most likely capture this theme that is prominent in most linux distros, I can only speak of my experience for sure. I can say this that regardless who answers you, in most cases you will get the info you need if it is begotten. Everyone has their own things they do. Just because some of the really really knowledgeable users don't jump right in constantly and answer every little question does not mean anything that everyone has their own things they are trying to accomplish and their time doesn't provide. I dunno, but I just have a hard time picturing some of the very advanced users looking down at anyone because they are new at this. I do know from my own experience that they will help anyone w/out even thinking of the level of the users. I have asked too many questions here that were answered by oh so many to make me ever think any other way on this. You are messing w/a great bunch of people here that truly play this game in the spirit of the linux open source.
John Rose
Chris,
I'm sure you appreciate the help you have received thus far in its many forms :)
Don't get discouraged, and please share what you have learned with others!
On Tue, Apr 11, 2006 at 08:10:32AM -0500, Chris Peikert wrote:
I couldn't help but take notice at some of the responses that were coming in from when I was posting questions due to my ignorance of Linux. Some people were quick to help, some advanced users I am sure ignored me because im not worth their time, and then some other users tried to help but was unable to dumb their speech down to newb levels. However I am thankful that there is people here to help out. I am hoping someone with CentOS will take notice at my difficulty in finding the bloody manuals and will put a link for future newbs that says "Download Manuals Here". I also hope in the future if I have questions I will be able to get the answers I seek and those who helped me before will be able to help me again.
On 4/11/06, Chris Peikert c.peikert@co.matagorda.tx.us wrote:
I couldn't help but take notice at some of the responses that were coming in from when I was posting questions due to my ignorance of Linux. Some people were quick to help, some advanced users I am sure ignored me because im not worth their time, and then some other users tried to help but was unable to dumb their speech down to newb levels. However I am thankful that there is people here to help out.
You should note that you will find this mix of responses on almost any list. There are those who are always willing to help, and those who can't be bothered. Also, and unfortunately, Newbie Baiting, is a time honored tradition on most lists, especially for the ego freaks who can't remember the time before they new it all. -- Collins Richey If you fill your heart with regrets of yesterday and the worries of tomorrow, you have no today to be thankful for.
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