On Fri, 4 Aug 2006, Frank Tanner III wrote:
On Fri, 2006-08-04 at 13:15 +0200, Dag Wieers wrote:
On Thu, 3 Aug 2006, Frank Tanner III wrote:
It's no wonder that computer novices want nothing to do with Linux.
Maybe Linux wants nothing to do with obnoxious people ?
PS How you communicate influences how you are being perceived, and how you
are being perceived incluences how people respond. But if you want to believe everybody who uses CentOS dislikes you, go ahead, nobody is stopping you.
Unless you want to believe they are. That's fine too. :)
It's a well known "fact" amongst the general public that the Linux "evangelists" are a rude flaming bunch. There are hundreds of news articles stating such. An THIS is what the public in general bases their attitudes with regards to the community as a whole on.
I communicated clearly and concisely. I didn't say ONE negative thing until I got jumped on; or didn't you actually read the thread.
I agree your initial mail did not say ONE negative thing. But it was not exactly clear and concise. It failed to reveal any information except that you wrote a firewall document.
Incorrect. It said, "For those of you that have my firewall document." So its target audience was very clear and concice. In fact, that was the first statement.
What's more you send it to a list where the majority did not know you, nor your document. That's ok though, nobody is blaming you for that either. IF you think that was a worthwhile thing to do, that's your choice.
But as soon as people ask you what the document is abouwhich is the logical next step if you send a mail to a list that is uninformed), or a location where you could put it, you started flaming people as if they wanted to correct you. As if you had to defend yourself.
No. They DIDN'T ask me what my document was about. That asked me who I was and why they should care. There is a HUGE difference. They treated me like I didn't have the RIGHT to speak on the list.
I know you by reputation. You are a fantastic package maintainer. How would YOU ahve felt when you first started maintaining packages for the various Linux flavors if every time you tried to introduce what you'd been doing you got flamed down? Because that's EXACTLY what has happened to me. You'd have said, "Piss on it. These guys are nothing but jerks that don't seem to be interested in what I say or what I have to offer. They just want the opportunity to insult people who invade their little 'clique'."
Granted, I haven't been using Linux since before kernel 1.0, like, apparently, everyone else on the list has, but that doesn't mean that I don't have any useful input.
And I think that is exactly what enflamed the whole situation.
Now that is of course my description of what happened, but I guess I'm not objective as I have been jumping on you as all these other "evangelists" on this list. In fact, I really think they are out to get you. Run, Forest, Run !
Kind regards, -- dag wieers, dag@wieers.com, http://dag.wieers.com/ -- [all I want is a warm bed and a kind word and unlimited power] _______________________________________________ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
On Fri, 4 Aug 2006, pctech@mybellybutton.com wrote:
On Fri, 4 Aug 2006, Frank Tanner III wrote:
On Fri, 2006-08-04 at 13:15 +0200, Dag Wieers wrote:
On Thu, 3 Aug 2006, Frank Tanner III wrote:
It's no wonder that computer novices want nothing to do with Linux.
Maybe Linux wants nothing to do with obnoxious people ?
PS How you communicate influences how you are being perceived, and how you
are being perceived incluences how people respond. But if you want to believe everybody who uses CentOS dislikes you, go ahead, nobody is stopping you.
Unless you want to believe they are. That's fine too. :)
It's a well known "fact" amongst the general public that the Linux "evangelists" are a rude flaming bunch. There are hundreds of news articles stating such. An THIS is what the public in general bases their attitudes with regards to the community as a whole on.
I communicated clearly and concisely. I didn't say ONE negative thing until I got jumped on; or didn't you actually read the thread.
I agree your initial mail did not say ONE negative thing. But it was not exactly clear and concise. It failed to reveal any information except that you wrote a firewall document.
Incorrect. It said, "For those of you that have my firewall document." So its target audience was very clear and concice. In fact, that was the first statement.
Ok. So because of that line nobody else could ask a question ? Or get flamed by _you_ otherwise. Why are you being so tense ? Your reaction caused this whole thread. (Not the initial mail, not Karanbir's answer)
What's more you send it to a list where the majority did not know you, nor your document. That's ok though, nobody is blaming you for that either. IF you think that was a worthwhile thing to do, that's your choice.
But as soon as people ask you what the document is abouwhich is the logical next step if you send a mail to a list that is uninformed), or a location where you could put it, you started flaming people as if they wanted to correct you. As if you had to defend yourself.
No. They DIDN'T ask me what my document was about. That asked me who I was and why they should care. There is a HUGE difference. They treated me like I didn't have the RIGHT to speak on the list.
That was one person, apparently you have succeeded to annoy many more people (including me). I was not involved in that.
What's more, you seem to blame the whole community for what this one person has done to you ! How awfull ! I guess they should make it up to you now, right ?
I know you by reputation. You are a fantastic package maintainer. How would YOU ahve felt when you first started maintaining packages for the various Linux flavors if every time you tried to introduce what you'd been doing you got flamed down? Because that's EXACTLY what has happened to me. You'd have said, "Piss on it. These guys are nothing but jerks that don't seem to be interested in what I say or what I have to offer. They just want the opportunity to insult people who invade their little 'clique'."
Karanbir is respected for his work in the CentOS community even more than I am. He's part of the CentOS team and similar to me, he has a huge repository of add-on packages.
Nobody is a jerk. Nobody has flamed you. Nobody insulted you. And even if they did, there's no reason to insult back or cry fault or exagerate about things.
Granted, I haven't been using Linux since before kernel 1.0, like, apparently, everyone else on the list has, but that doesn't mean that I don't have any useful input.
You're making things up. Nobody is proclaiming that let alone that _everyone_ is proclaiming it. Remember that the people that answered your mail are just a tiny fraction of the complete mailinglist users. Even if one is flaming you, why should you care ? Give an intelligent answer back, or spare your breath.
Afaics you have been the aggressor and you've been insulting since (ven in the replies to me). There's no point in insulting people unless you want to be flamed in return.
But as I said before, you do not have to believe me. You don't have to be subscribed. The moment you stop answering people in this thread, people will leave this thread as well.
Now, let's try to respond to people in this thread without insulting anyone or bringing this issue up again. Maybe post an index of the topics from your document. Or convert it to HTML so people can offer feedback or criticism. Try to divert the subject to something useful.
Kind regards, -- dag wieers, dag@wieers.com, http://dag.wieers.com/ -- [all I want is a warm bed and a kind word and unlimited power]
On Fri, Aug 04, 2006 at 10:24:43AM -0400, pctech@mybellybutton.com wrote:
Incorrect. It said, "For those of you that have my firewall document." So its target audience was very clear and concice. In fact, that was the first statement.
Since this is a public list, and since a firewall document seems useful, the question was completely appropriate. And you're reading way too much into the tone.
Also, I can't help but notice that you're getting all worked up about this portion of the thread, and ignoring the part about easily findable, sensible, and logical places to post such a document that don't take up your bandwidth.
I know you by reputation. You are a fantastic package maintainer. How would YOU ahve felt when you first started maintaining packages for the various Linux flavors if every time you tried to introduce what you'd been doing you got flamed down? Because that's EXACTLY what has happened to me.
You're contradicting yourself. Were you trying to introduce what you were doing, or were you trying to only send a message to people who already knew about it, and no one else should ask?
Since the list archives are available, we can all see the actual truth pretty clearly here. Stephen Smoogen asked a polite question, and rather than answer, you responded that there was "no reason for [him] to fricken reply". Later, Karanbir Singh tried again to ask for a brief introduction, and got back a tirade.
No one "flamed you down". In fact, many people here are trying to help you figure out how to self-publish your document effectively, but *you* are choosing to do exactly what you are decrying, rather than accepting their help.
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Dag Wieers -
Matthew Miller -
pctech＠mybellybutton.com