On 6/6/07, pctech@mybellybutton.com pctech@mybellybutton.com wrote:
If people don't want it because of my chosen distribution method, that's fine
by me. I'll just keep my documents to myself and then they don't have to worry about it.
Then do so, and keep it off this list. This started an argument last year, and it seems to be starting one now.
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It wouldn't have started one then, nor one now, if people wouldn't try to tell me what to do with my own document. At the end of the day I will distribute it in any manner that I see fit.
Just because someone doesn't like the way I distribute it doesn't mean that they have the right to tell me what to do with it or how to give it to people. If they don't like my distribution method then they are free not to ask for it. Nobody's making them ask for it. I *CLEARLY* stated in my original e-mail who the intended target audience was.
On 6/6/07, pctech@mybellybutton.com pctech@mybellybutton.com wrote:
Just because someone doesn't like the way I distribute it doesn't mean that they have the right to tell me what to do with it or how to give it to people. If they don't like my distribution method then they are free not to ask for it. Nobody's making them ask for it. I *CLEARLY* stated in my original e-mail who the intended target audience was.
Your named target audience were the folks who have already asked you for this once before. You already have their addresses, as this is the only way you distribute the document.
You don't get to cherry pick your arguments here. If you're going to come into a venue with lots of folks who don't approve of your model (which is entirely up to you, that's fine and it's completely your choice) you can't expect them to not yell a bit.
It would be something akin to handing out pro-life flyers at an abortion clinic. Both groups are well within their rights, and not a damn one of them is happy about the situation.
As I said, do not advertise it here, and don't continue this discussion. I'm not questioning the method of distribution, or the content but I don't want it on this list. Period.
What is all this mess?.... I have requested him his document and he has no problem to send it to me.
I understand the document belongs to him and he let us to read it. Where is the problem? The document size is near 15 MB and I think that it is not a good idea to send it by mail to the list directly (simply because a lot of people will not mind about it and they would have to download 15 MB).
If he likes to make a PDF in which people cannot write, it is his problem. It is not allowing you to write on them, just giving you the chance to read it. If you like his way, go ahead, if you doesn't bad luck. His rules are the rules...
I don't think he had problems to receive suggestions about the document structure, contents or even his way of harden firewalls, but they are just advices or suggestions, and if he think your ideas are right he will care about them. (For example I think that installing X Windows in a machine that will be used for firewall purposes is not good, I just had a look on his document, but if he thinks he is OK, what can I do?)
I guess that people that share their documents or resources are always welcome, and we don't have to ficht with them about the way they go.
Peace,
Jim Perrin wrote:
On 6/6/07, pctech@mybellybutton.com pctech@mybellybutton.com wrote:
Just because someone doesn't like the way I distribute it doesn't mean that they have the right to tell me what to do with it or how to give it to people. If they don't like my distribution method then they are free not to ask for it. Nobody's making them ask for it. I *CLEARLY* stated in my original e-mail who the intended target audience was.
Your named target audience were the folks who have already asked you for this once before. You already have their addresses, as this is the only way you distribute the document.
You don't get to cherry pick your arguments here. If you're going to come into a venue with lots of folks who don't approve of your model (which is entirely up to you, that's fine and it's completely your choice) you can't expect them to not yell a bit.
It would be something akin to handing out pro-life flyers at an abortion clinic. Both groups are well within their rights, and not a damn one of them is happy about the situation.
As I said, do not advertise it here, and don't continue this discussion. I'm not questioning the method of distribution, or the content but I don't want it on this list. Period.
On Thu, 2007-06-07 at 01:28 +0200, Lorenzo Martínez Rodríguez wrote:
What is all this mess?.... I have requested him his document and he has no problem to send it to me.
I understand the document belongs to him and he let us to read it. Where is the problem? The document size is near 15 MB and I think that it is not a good idea to send it by mail to the list directly (simply because a lot of people will not mind about it and they would have to download 15 MB).
If he likes to make a PDF in which people cannot write, it is his problem. It is not allowing you to write on them, just giving you the chance to read it. If you like his way, go ahead, if you doesn't bad luck. His rules are the rules...
I don't think he had problems to receive suggestions about the document structure, contents or even his way of harden firewalls, but they are just advices or suggestions, and if he think your ideas are right he will care about them. (For example I think that installing X Windows in a machine that will be used for firewall purposes is not good, I just had a look on his document, but if he thinks he is OK, what can I do?)
Thank you. The only time X Windows runs is when you manually run it. It's installed but the firewall runs in runlevel 3 until you manually run vncserver. The reason that I chose to include X Windows in it is that some people may be administering the firewall ruleset from a Windows machine. The Windows version of Firewall Builder is a "for pay" application. This allows someone from a Windows machine to administer it without having to pay for the Windows Firewall Builder application.
I, too, would prefer not to have X Windows loaded. It's an un-needed waste of space except for that one application.
I guess that people that share their documents or resources are always welcome, and we don't have to ficht with them about the way they go.
Peace,
Jim Perrin wrote:
On 6/6/07, pctech@mybellybutton.com pctech@mybellybutton.com wrote:
Just because someone doesn't like the way I distribute it doesn't mean that they have the right to tell me what to do with it or how to give it to people. If they don't like my distribution method then they are free not to ask for it. Nobody's making them ask for it. I *CLEARLY* stated in my original e-mail who the intended target audience was.
Your named target audience were the folks who have already asked you for this once before. You already have their addresses, as this is the only way you distribute the document.
You don't get to cherry pick your arguments here. If you're going to come into a venue with lots of folks who don't approve of your model (which is entirely up to you, that's fine and it's completely your choice) you can't expect them to not yell a bit.
It would be something akin to handing out pro-life flyers at an abortion clinic. Both groups are well within their rights, and not a damn one of them is happy about the situation.
As I said, do not advertise it here, and don't continue this discussion. I'm not questioning the method of distribution, or the content but I don't want it on this list. Period.
On Wed, 2007-06-06 at 15:57 -0400, Jim Perrin wrote:
On 6/6/07, pctech@mybellybutton.com pctech@mybellybutton.com wrote:
Just because someone doesn't like the way I distribute it doesn't mean that they have the right to tell me what to do with it or how to give it to people. If they don't like my distribution method then they are free not to ask for it. Nobody's making them ask for it. I *CLEARLY* stated in my original e-mail who the intended target audience was.
Your named target audience were the folks who have already asked you for this once before. You already have their addresses, as this is the only way you distribute the document.
Actually, I *DON'T* have their e-mail addresses anymore. Because I delete their e-mails after a successful delivery of the document to the e-mail address that they have provided. I'm not interested in keeping the e-mail addresses of a bunch of strangers.
You don't get to cherry pick your arguments here. If you're going to come into a venue with lots of folks who don't approve of your model (which is entirely up to you, that's fine and it's completely your choice) you can't expect them to not yell a bit.
I haven't cherry picked anything. I can expect anything that I like. They seem to expect me to distribute my document in their chosen distribution model.
It would be something akin to handing out pro-life flyers at an abortion clinic. Both groups are well within their rights, and not a damn one of them is happy about the situation.
That's about the poorest, and most off-target, analogy I've seen in a long time.
As I said, do not advertise it here, and don't continue this discussion. I'm not questioning the method of distribution, or the content but I don't want it on this list. Period.
pctech@mybellybutton.com wrote:
It wouldn't have started one then, nor one now, if people wouldn't try to tell me what to do with my own document. At the end of the day I will distribute it in any manner that I see fit.
Just because someone doesn't like the way I distribute it doesn't mean that they have the right to tell me what to do with it or how to give it to people. If they don't like my distribution method then they are free not to ask for it. Nobody's making them ask for it. I *CLEARLY* stated in my original e-mail who the intended target audience was.
*yawn*
I think you should keep it locked up and not share it with anyone. There are probably hundreds of similar documents freely available out there.
Best,
On Wed, 2007-06-06 at 15:58 -0400, Chris Mauritz wrote:
pctech@mybellybutton.com wrote:
It wouldn't have started one then, nor one now, if people wouldn't try to tell me what to do with my own document. At the end of the day I will distribute it in any manner that I see fit.
Just because someone doesn't like the way I distribute it doesn't mean that they have the right to tell me what to do with it or how to give it to people. If they don't like my distribution method then they are free not to ask for it. Nobody's making them ask for it. I *CLEARLY* stated in my original e-mail who the intended target audience was.
*yawn*
I think you should keep it locked up and not share it with anyone. There are probably hundreds of similar documents freely available out there.
Name me a dozen documents that contain similar information to what mine contains.
Best,
CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Frank Tanner III wrote:
On Wed, 2007-06-06 at 15:58 -0400, Chris Mauritz wrote:
pctech@mybellybutton.com wrote:
It wouldn't have started one then, nor one now, if people wouldn't try to tell me what to do with my own document. At the end of the day I will distribute it in any manner that I see fit.
Just because someone doesn't like the way I distribute it doesn't mean that they have the right to tell me what to do with it or how to give it to people. If they don't like my distribution method then they are free not to ask for it. Nobody's making them ask for it. I *CLEARLY* stated in my original e-mail who the intended target audience was.
*yawn*
I think you should keep it locked up and not share it with anyone. There are probably hundreds of similar documents freely available out there.
Name me a dozen documents that contain similar information to what mine contains.
I suppose I'll never know since I don't want my email address added to your mailing list (especially after knowing your catty disposition). Let me rephrase...There are MANY free (as in speech) documents on the web that go into great detail on the setup and care and feeding of a Linux firewall.
Best,
On Wed, 2007-06-06 at 21:08 -0400, Chris Mauritz wrote:
Frank Tanner III wrote:
On Wed, 2007-06-06 at 15:58 -0400, Chris Mauritz wrote:
pctech@mybellybutton.com wrote:
It wouldn't have started one then, nor one now, if people wouldn't try to tell me what to do with my own document. At the end of the day I will distribute it in any manner that I see fit.
Just because someone doesn't like the way I distribute it doesn't mean that they have the right to tell me what to do with it or how to give it to people. If they don't like my distribution method then they are free not to ask for it. Nobody's making them ask for it. I *CLEARLY* stated in my original e-mail who the intended target audience was.
*yawn*
I think you should keep it locked up and not share it with anyone. There are probably hundreds of similar documents freely available out there.
Name me a dozen documents that contain similar information to what mine contains.
I suppose I'll never know since I don't want my email address added to your mailing list (especially after knowing your catty disposition). Let me rephrase...There are MANY free (as in speech) documents on the web that go into great detail on the setup and care and feeding of a Linux firewall.
My mailing list? What mailing list? My "catty response" was in DIRECT response to yours. You're the one that claims that there are hundreds of document available that are just like mine. Do all of the others offer a complete "turnkey solution" including proxy, content filter, IM filtering/logging, multi-node failover, SNMP support, and web management of the firewall itself? If so, please feel free to tell me. Because I never found out, which is why I created mine in the first place.
How is mine not free as in speech?
Best,
CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
On Wed, 2007-06-06 at 21:15 -0400, Chris Mauritz wrote:
Frank Tanner III wrote:
My mailing list? What mailing list?
blahblahblah....
<plonk>
And this is a legitimate rebuttal how? You're what? Twelve years old?
CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Okay, seriously. Let this thread die for the sake of everyone's sanity. That goes for all of you.
Frank Tanner III wrote:
I think you should keep it locked up and not share it with anyone. There are probably hundreds of similar documents freely available out there.
Name me a dozen documents that contain similar information to what mine contains.
Send me a copy of what your document is, and I shall be happy to point out a dozen or so resouces that have *better* info than what you provide.
- KB
Karanbir,
At least Frank took the initiative to write a document. Yes, there will be mistakes in it. No, it will not include all the information under the sun. Perhaps there are better documents or book available out there. But, at least he took the initiative to do his own work.
Once again I am reminded how immature the community can be at times. Can we not all get along and drop these childish antics and retorts?
J
-----Original Message----- From: centos-bounces@centos.org [mailto:centos-bounces@centos.org] On Behalf Of Karanbir Singh Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 6:04 AM To: CentOS mailing list Subject: Re: [CentOS] CentOS Based Linux Firewall Document
Frank Tanner III wrote:
I think you should keep it locked up and not share it with anyone. There are probably hundreds of similar documents freely available out
there.
Name me a dozen documents that contain similar information to what mine contains.
Send me a copy of what your document is, and I shall be happy to point out a dozen or so resouces that have *better* info than what you provide.
- KB -- Karanbir Singh : http://www.karan.org/ : 2522219@icq _______________________________________________ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Hi,
Ashton, Jeremy - Workstream Inc. wrote:
At least Frank took the initiative to write a document. Yes, there will be mistakes in it. No, it will not include all the information under the sun. Perhaps there are better documents or book available out there. But, at least he took the initiative to do his own work.
The only reason I pitched in is because, he is : (a) an idiot, with no idea of what he is talking about (b) has no regard for the work that we do (c) clueless about the idea of community and (d) I dont quite like the idea of pushing non-shareable / non-community friendly licensed material here, specially under the guise of 'hey, I am doing you all a favour'.
If what he is saying is correct and a community initiative cant work, we wont have Linux today where it is and people would not be making the sort of time and effort commitments they do into these projects.
Anyway, he asked a question - I just asked him to facilitate an answer. Unless, of-course, he does not really want an answer and was just taunting and blowing his own horn.
Once again I am reminded how immature the community can be at times. Can we not all get along and drop these childish antics and retorts?
Absolutely, I agree. Its a free world and people have a right to go do as they please - more so in these free software environs we like to live in, but you see what happens is that when someone is going to stand back and slagg off other people - other people have the right to call his antics just that. antics.
Finally, I await this bible-of-firewall docs that he has come up with.
- KB
On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 18:12:33 +0100 Karanbir Singh mail-lists@karan.org wrote:
...
I want to mention/remind that Karanbir is a very active part of CentOS and has given a lot of time and hard work to me and the whole community.
Thanks Karanbir.
I want to mention/remind that Karanbir is a very active part of CentOS and has given a lot of time and hard work to me and the whole community.
Yes. When I've said my words against pctech's point of view I've done it with people like Karanbir, Johnny, Jim, Lance, Ralph, Daniel and so on in mind.
¿How many hours do they spend in front of their machines, trying to improve this beautiful project?
At least, their altruistic and generous attitude deserves all our respect.
--- Jordi Espasa Clofent sistemes.llistes@intergrid.cat wrote:
I want to mention/remind that Karanbir is a very
active part of
CentOS and has given a lot of time and hard work
to me and the
whole community.
Yes. When I've said my words against pctech's point of view I've done it with people like Karanbir, Johnny, Jim, Lance, Ralph, Daniel and so on in mind.
¿How many hours do they spend in front of their machines, trying to improve this beautiful project?
At least, their altruistic and generous attitude deserves all our respect.
-- Thanks, Jordi Espasa Clofent _______________________________________________ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
I took a little peak at the document in mention, and there is one thing that bothers me about it. It is the mentioning of this little sentence "this document contains information compiled from many sources." Now i am not no English major or proclaim to be, but when you take other people work and use it in your work are you not suppose to cite that?
How do we know he did copy and paste other peoples work and then call it his own? there is not one citation in his work. If this has happen and that was my work, damn i know i would of be mighty pissed about that!
Can not say oh since he took it from so many places he does not know all the sites, books...etc that is not an excuse either.
i know my writing is bad, but you get the idea what i am trying to say!!! and the reason i am saying anything is when a person acts like a jag i can be a bigger jag!!!!!!!
Steven
"On the side of the software box, in the 'System Requirements' section, it said 'Requires Windows or better'. So I installed Linux."
On Thursday 07 June 2007 15:50:06 Ashton, Jeremy - Workstream Inc. wrote:
Karanbir,
At least Frank took the initiative to write a document. Yes, there will be mistakes in it. No, it will not include all the information under the sun. Perhaps there are better documents or book available out there. But, at least he took the initiative to do his own work.
Once again I am reminded how immature the community can be at times. Can we not all get along and drop these childish antics and retorts?
J
-----Original Message----- From: centos-bounces@centos.org [mailto:centos-bounces@centos.org] On Behalf Of Karanbir Singh Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 6:04 AM To: CentOS mailing list Subject: Re: [CentOS] CentOS Based Linux Firewall Document
Frank Tanner III wrote:
I think you should keep it locked up and not share it with anyone. There are probably hundreds of similar documents freely available out
there.
Name me a dozen documents that contain similar information to what mine contains.
Send me a copy of what your document is, and I shall be happy to point out a dozen or so resouces that have *better* info than what you provide.
- KB
-- Karanbir Singh : http://www.karan.org/ : 2522219@icq _______________________________________________ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos _______________________________________________ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
I down loaded CentOS last Monday and joined the mailing list at the same time. If this is typical behaviour of the list I don't think I will bother installing it this weekend. I have been a Linux user for about three years now. I still consider myself a newbie but jump in and give what answers I can when I can. I was under the impression Linux was a free operating system. Free to use and free to change to the way I want. It seems that in Franks case its not free for him to choose how he distributes a how to that he has invested his time and effort in producing. In his posting he stated that he had had problems with wiki's in the past though he had not used the CentOS wiki. So lets cut the chap some slack. I for one would like to say thanks Frank for giving some time and effort back to the community.
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Ashton, Jeremy - Workstream Inc. -
centos＠911networks.com -
Chris Mauritz -
Frank Tanner III -
Jim Perrin -
John bowden -
Jordi Espasa Clofent -
Karanbir Singh -
Lorenzo Martínez Rodríguez -
pctech＠mybellybutton.com
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Steven Vishoot