Hello all: Does anyone know of a tool/project that will allow me to read the battery condition (not the charge status) on a Dell laptop battery? Under XP there is a utility that warns that the battery is still holding a charge but that the battery is degraded and should be replaced.
Also, not sure if this is possible, but I would like to control how the laptop charges the battery. I tend to have the laptop plugged in most of the time and this constant charging state is apparently very bad for battery lifetime. So a charge/drain cycle is supposedly better.
Thanks, Kwan
Actually, it's the 100% charge state that is bad for LiIon. But a charge/drain cycle will likely wear the battery out even faster - LiIon batteries wear model is based on usage time. A 90% charge is ideal for long term storage - or for someone who leaves the laptop plugged into AC power most of the time.
As far as software controls, I'm not familiar - but one thing that works in any OS is to simply remove the battery when on AC power.
-Blake
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: [CentOS] Battery condition tools CentOS/Dell From: Kwan Lowe kwan.lowe@gmail.com To: centos@centos.org Date: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 8:43:36 AM
Hello all: Does anyone know of a tool/project that will allow me to read the battery condition (not the charge status) on a Dell laptop battery? Under XP there is a utility that warns that the battery is still holding a charge but that the battery is degraded and should be replaced.
Also, not sure if this is possible, but I would like to control how the laptop charges the battery. I tend to have the laptop plugged in most of the time and this constant charging state is apparently very bad for battery lifetime. So a charge/drain cycle is supposedly better.
Thanks, Kwan _______________________________________________ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 9:53 AM, Blake Hudsonblake@ispn.net wrote:
Actually, it's the 100% charge state that is bad for LiIon. But a charge/drain cycle will likely wear the battery out even faster - LiIon batteries wear model is based on usage time. A 90% charge is ideal for long term storage - or for someone who leaves the laptop plugged into AC power most of the time.
Yes, this is exactly what I've heard.. 100% charge state seems to drastically reduce the lifetime of the battery. The problem is that my laptop is *always* on, so is constantly running at 100% charge. It appears that the problem is not a memory effect, but more to do with heat. The times I have removed it from the mains the battery held out for only about 10 minutes before dying.
I'm experimenting with removing the batteries completely, but ideally would like to have the battery backup in case of a power outage. My other option is to get a UPS and run without the laptop battery.
As far as software controls, I'm not familiar - but one thing that works in any OS is to simply remove the battery when on AC power.
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [CentOS] Battery condition tools CentOS/Dell From: Kwan Lowe kwan.lowe@gmail.com To: CentOS mailing list centos@centos.org Date: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 9:14:46 AM
The times I have removed it from the mains the battery held out for only about 10 minutes before dying.
I'm experimenting with removing the batteries completely, but ideally would like to have the battery backup in case of a power outage. My other option is to get a UPS and run without the laptop battery.
How old is your laptop? This may be a case of expectations not meeting reality. As the Wiki article linked previously mentions, LiION batteries deteriorate over time and with use (as do all batteries). In my experience, a typical laptop battery (treated well) will last 2 years while maintaining the majority of its original capacity. After 5 years, the battery run time is often inadequate to meet the needs of the owner. When purchasing a laptop, I would have the expectation that the battery will need replaced every 2-3 years - if the laptop is used, assume that it needs a new battery.
If your battery is only maintaining a run time of 10 minutes, it has reached the end of its life. If this has occurred in less than 2 years then there is a problem and I think you're going about it the right way (or perhaps via a warranty claim), but if the battery is greater than 3 years old I would have to say it's just time for a new one.
--Blake
On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Blake Hudsonblake@ispn.net wrote:
How old is your laptop? This may be a case of expectations not meeting reality. As the Wiki article linked previously mentions, LiION batteries deteriorate over time and with use (as do all batteries). In my experience, a typical laptop battery (treated well) will last 2 years while maintaining the majority of its original capacity. After 5 years, the battery run time is often inadequate to meet the needs of the owner. When purchasing a laptop, I would have the expectation that the battery will need replaced every 2-3 years - if the laptop is used, assume that it needs a new battery.
The laptop is about 18 months old, so the battery was nearing its end but I'd hoped for at least another 6 months of useful time (more than 10 minutes). The battery is in worse condition than three identical batteries in the other 3 laptops purchased at the same time. The main difference is that this laptop is plugged in continuously while the others are mobile.
2009/8/5 Kwan Lowe kwan.lowe@gmail.com
On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Blake Hudsonblake@ispn.net wrote:
How old is your laptop? This may be a case of expectations not meeting reality. As the Wiki article linked previously mentions, LiION batteries deteriorate over time and with use (as do all batteries). In my experience, a typical laptop battery (treated well) will last 2 years while maintaining the majority of its original capacity. After 5 years, the battery run time is often inadequate to meet the needs of the owner. When purchasing a laptop, I would have the expectation that the battery will need replaced every 2-3 years - if the laptop is used, assume that it needs a new battery.
The laptop is about 18 months old, so the battery was nearing its end but I'd hoped for at least another 6 months of useful time (more than 10 minutes). The battery is in worse condition than three identical batteries in the other 3 laptops purchased at the same time. The main difference is that this laptop is plugged in continuously while the others are mobile.
sorry if this was said already, but i didn't followed this thread. anyway, rumours are, the main reason for batteries ending their life is heat. that is why it is recommended, while the laptop is on AC, the battery shoud be removed.
CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
cornel panceac wrote:
The laptop is about 18 months old, so the battery was nearing its end but I'd hoped for at least another 6 months of useful time (more than 10 minutes). The battery is in worse condition than three identical batteries in the other 3 laptops purchased at the same time. The main difference is that this laptop is plugged in continuously while the others are mobile.sorry if this was said already, but i didn't followed this thread. anyway, rumours are, the main reason for batteries ending their life is heat. that is why it is recommended, while the laptop is on AC, the battery shoud be removed.
your battery has failed prematurely. If there's a active warranty on it, I would try and get a replacement from the manufacturer.
I've got a Latitude D600 laptop thats almost 5 years old (new in jan 2005), still has its original Dell 9 cell battery... While I occasionally use it offline, most of the time its plugged in 24/7. The battery still lasts about 90 minutes of average steady usage, maybe 2 hours of light usage (remote terminal + wifi, for instance). This is significantly down from the 5 hours it lasted when new but still plenty usable.
It *is* important with laptops to keep the bottom air vents clear when they are powered. always use the laptop on a hard surface, or if its on your lap or whatever, be sure to position it so the vents are clear. I also find I have to partially diassemble the laptop once or twice a year to clear out the 'dust bunnies' that collect between the fans and the heatsink radiators. left too long, the dust builds up into a rectangular piece of 'felt' that completely blocks the airflow. some newer laptops have access panels specifically for the fans, my older ones I have to take apart from the top down.
Kwan Lowe wrote:
On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Blake Hudsonblake@ispn.net wrote:
How old is your laptop? This may be a case of expectations not meeting reality. As the Wiki article linked previously mentions, LiION batteries deteriorate over time and with use (as do all batteries). In my experience, a typical laptop battery (treated well) will last 2 years while maintaining the majority of its original capacity. After 5 years, the battery run time is often inadequate to meet the needs of the owner. When purchasing a laptop, I would have the expectation that the battery will need replaced every 2-3 years - if the laptop is used, assume that it needs a new battery.
The laptop is about 18 months old, so the battery was nearing its end but I'd hoped for at least another 6 months of useful time (more than 10 minutes). The battery is in worse condition than three identical batteries in the other 3 laptops purchased at the same time. The main difference is that this laptop is plugged in continuously while the others are mobile.
That's usually a symptom of an individual cell that has failed. You could open up the batterypack and start replacing the individual cells, but I'd recommend just getting a new battery or even a new laptop...
Glenn
RedShift wrote:
That's usually a symptom of an individual cell that has failed. You could open up the batterypack and start replacing the individual cells, but I'd recommend just getting a new battery or even a new laptop...
*EXTREMELY* dangerous to do that with Lithium-ion packs.
On Wednesday 05 August 2009 18:38:12 Kwan Lowe wrote:
On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Blake Hudsonblake@ispn.net wrote:
How old is your laptop? This may be a case of expectations not meeting reality. As the Wiki article linked previously mentions, LiION batteries deteriorate over time and with use (as do all batteries). In my experience, a typical laptop battery (treated well) will last 2 years while maintaining the majority of its original capacity. After 5 years, the battery run time is often inadequate to meet the needs of the owner. When purchasing a laptop, I would have the expectation that the battery will need replaced every 2-3 years - if the laptop is used, assume that it needs a new battery.
The laptop is about 18 months old, so the battery was nearing its end but I'd hoped for at least another 6 months of useful time (more than 10 minutes). The battery is in worse condition than three identical batteries in the other 3 laptops purchased at the same time. The main difference is that this laptop is plugged in continuously while the others are mobile.
My laptop is four years old, and yes the battery is aging. When I bought the laptop there were instructions that if a laptop is used mainly on mains, you should run it on battery, say once a month or so, until you are down to 10%. It was claimed that the periodic discharge in this way actually lengthens the life-span of the battery.
Anne -- New to KDE4? - get help from http://userbase.kde.org Just found a cool new feature? Add it to UserBase
Anne Wilson wrote:
My laptop is four years old, and yes the battery is aging. When I bought the laptop there were instructions that if a laptop is used mainly on mains, you should run it on battery, say once a month or so, until you are down to 10%. It was claimed that the periodic discharge in this way actually lengthens the life-span of the battery.
Anne
Lithium Ion type batteries do not have the Memory issue of older battery types, where you need to discharge fully to cycle it from low to high to build capacity.
It is better that you never discharge a Lithium Battery if possible.
Here is a very good article on Li Ion batteries:
http://batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm
Thanks, Johnny Hughes
Johnny Hughes wrote:
Anne Wilson wrote:
My laptop is four years old, and yes the battery is aging. When I bought the laptop there were instructions that if a laptop is used mainly on mains, you should run it on battery, say once a month or so, until you are down to 10%. It was claimed that the periodic discharge in this way actually lengthens the life-span of the battery.
Anne
Lithium Ion type batteries do not have the Memory issue of older battery types, where you need to discharge fully to cycle it from low to high to build capacity.
It is better that you never discharge a Lithium Battery if possible.
Except recent kernels (or something else) have interferred? with AC state, and I will be running on battery, even though the OS thinks it is on AC, so I am NOT watching how long I was on battery and all of a sudden, POOF! System off....
GRRR. Maybe this new 2.6.18-128.1.14.el5 will get it working right again...
On 06/08/09 16:21, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
Johnny Hughes wrote:
Anne Wilson wrote:
My laptop is four years old, and yes the battery is aging. When I bought the laptop there were instructions that if a laptop is used mainly on mains, you should run it on battery, say once a month or so, until you are down to 10%. It was claimed that the periodic discharge in this way actually lengthens the life-span of the battery.
Anne
Lithium Ion type batteries do not have the Memory issue of older battery types, where you need to discharge fully to cycle it from low to high to build capacity.
It is better that you never discharge a Lithium Battery if possible.
Except recent kernels (or something else) have interferred? with AC state, and I will be running on battery, even though the OS thinks it is on AC, so I am NOT watching how long I was on battery and all of a sudden, POOF! System off....
GRRR. Maybe this new 2.6.18-128.1.14.el5 will get it working right again...
CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Although that last bit made me laugh. I hope for your sake it gets sorted soon :-) Could cause HDD damage instant power off's are never good.
On Wed, 2009-08-05 at 09:43 -0400, Kwan Lowe wrote:
Hello all: Does anyone know of a tool/project that will allow me to read the battery condition (not the charge status) on a Dell laptop battery? Under XP there is a utility that warns that the battery is still holding a charge but that the battery is degraded and should be replaced.
Also, not sure if this is possible, but I would like to control how the laptop charges the battery. I tend to have the laptop plugged in most of the time and this constant charging state is apparently very bad for battery lifetime. So a charge/drain cycle is supposedly better.
---- most laptops have Lithium Ion batteries and are not bothered by 'memory effect'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_ion_batteries
I think with Lithium Ion batteries, all you do by charge/drain cycles is shorten their life.
Craig
Kwan Lowe wrote:
Hello all: Does anyone know of a tool/project that will allow me to read the battery condition (not the charge status) on a Dell laptop battery? Under XP there is a utility that warns that the battery is still holding a charge but that the battery is degraded and should be replaced.
Also, not sure if this is possible, but I would like to control how the laptop charges the battery. I tend to have the laptop plugged in most of the time and this constant charging state is apparently very bad for battery lifetime. So a charge/drain cycle is supposedly better.
Thanks, Kwan
Li-ion batteries should be charged "early and often". Deep discharging will shorten its lifetime as part of their normal usage cycle. I don't see how charging them to 100% is negative for the battery's lifetime as they do not have the memory effect. Li-ion batteries degrade as soon as they are produced, when they are not being used you should charge them to about 60% and store them somewhere cool, dry and without light.
Glenn
At Wed, 5 Aug 2009 09:43:36 -0400 CentOS mailing list centos@centos.org wrote:
Hello all: Does anyone know of a tool/project that will allow me to read the battery condition (not the charge status) on a Dell laptop battery? Under XP there is a utility that warns that the battery is still holding a charge but that the battery is degraded and should be replaced.
If the laptop uses the (old!) APM interface, xapm will work. If the laptop uses the (newer, current) ACPI interface, I have written a little utility that displays the battery state. Visit http://www.deepsoft.com/OddsAndEnds and scroll down to the section titled 'TkBattery' for more information. This program just reads/monitors the files under /proc/acpi/ac_adapter/ and /proc/acpi/battery/, which map to the state of the power cord (plugged in or not) and the battery(ies) info and state files. All of these files are just text files that can be read by a program (or a simple script).
Also, not sure if this is possible, but I would like to control how the laptop charges the battery. I tend to have the laptop plugged in most of the time and this constant charging state is apparently very bad for battery lifetime. So a charge/drain cycle is supposedly better.
Thanks, Kwan _______________________________________________ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Robert Heller wrote:
At Wed, 5 Aug 2009 09:43:36 -0400 CentOS mailing list centos@centos.org wrote:
Hello all: Does anyone know of a tool/project that will allow me to read the battery condition (not the charge status) on a Dell laptop battery? Under XP there is a utility that warns that the battery is still holding a charge but that the battery is degraded and should be replaced.
If the laptop uses the (old!) APM interface, xapm will work. If the laptop uses the (newer, current) ACPI interface, I have written a little utility that displays the battery state. Visit http://www.deepsoft.com/OddsAndEnds and scroll down to the section titled 'TkBattery' for more information. This program just reads/monitors the files under /proc/acpi/ac_adapter/ and /proc/acpi/battery/, which map to the state of the power cord (plugged
Interesting. According to info, my battery was built 2007/04/09. When I started using this box I would get 2.5 hrs on battery, now I am fortunate to go 1.25 hrs. So either Centos is pulling more A, or the battery has aged and time to get a new one for travel purposes.
Oh and the "design capacity" is 1566 mA, and the charge is 1539 mAh. Yet the 'run time' is half of what it use to be...
I don't like the idea of running without a battery while on AC. It is not an easy trick to remove/add the battery on this HP nc2400, and I frequently pull it off my desk to work elsewhere.
in or not) and the battery(ies) info and state files. All of these files are just text files that can be read by a program (or a simple script).
Also, not sure if this is possible, but I would like to control how the laptop charges the battery. I tend to have the laptop plugged in most of the time and this constant charging state is apparently very bad for battery lifetime. So a charge/drain cycle is supposedly better.
Thanks, Kwan _______________________________________________ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 12:33 PM, Robert Hellerheller@deepsoft.com wrote:
If the laptop uses the (old!) APM interface, xapm will work. If the laptop uses the (newer, current) ACPI interface, I have written a little utility that displays the battery state. Visit http://www.deepsoft.com/OddsAndEnds and scroll down to the section titled 'TkBattery' for more information. This program just reads/monitors the files under /proc/acpi/ac_adapter/ and /proc/acpi/battery/, which map to the state of the power cord (plugged in or not) and the battery(ies) info and state files. All of these files are just text files that can be read by a program (or a simple script).
Ahh.. The /proc/acpi/battery info might be the info I need. It looks like the "design capacity" and "last full capacity" will give the information I need. In my case, design capacity is 4800 mAh and last full is 768 mAh. This works out about right given that, when new, it lasted a little under two hours and now it dies in about 10 minutes.
Thanks a bunch...
BTW, someone suggested the battery applet monitor but at least on my version it only gives the charge state, not the battery condition.
Kwan Lowe wrote:
Also, not sure if this is possible, but I would like to control how the laptop charges the battery. I tend to have the laptop plugged in most of the time and this constant charging state is apparently very bad for battery lifetime. So a charge/drain cycle is supposedly better.
assuming a reasonably modern (last 5 years?) laptop with a lithium-ion battery, your battery's useful life is the shorter of
~400 full discharge/recharge cycles (+/- 200) 3-5 years from date of manufacture
after that, the battery charge will last about half as long as when it was new, and it will continue to deteriorate.
On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 8:43 AM, Kwan Lowekwan.lowe@gmail.com wrote:
Hello all: Does anyone know of a tool/project that will allow me to read the battery condition (not the charge status) on a Dell laptop battery? Under XP there is a utility that warns that the battery is still holding a charge but that the battery is degraded and should be replaced.
Also, not sure if this is possible, but I would like to control how the laptop charges the battery. I tend to have the laptop plugged in most of the time and this constant charging state is apparently very bad for battery lifetime. So a charge/drain cycle is supposedly better.
Do you show the Power Manager icon on your panel? On my Latitude D400, when I right-click on that icon, chose "Information" the first tab that comes up is "Device Information." If I open the "More" tab, it tells me all kinds of information about my battery, including "Capacity" -- which I think is what you're looking for? (Mine shows 87% with "Fair" in paranthethes.) It's possible that different batteries interact differently with the Power Manager, though.
On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 8:43 AM, Kwan Lowekwan.lowe@gmail.com wrote:
Hello all: Does anyone know of a tool/project that will allow me to read the battery condition (not the charge status) on a Dell laptop battery? Under XP there is a utility that warns that the battery is still holding a charge but that the battery is degraded and should be replaced.
Also, not sure if this is possible, but I would like to control how the laptop charges the battery. I tend to have the laptop plugged in most of the time and this constant charging state is apparently very bad for battery lifetime. So a charge/drain cycle is supposedly better.
Do you show the Power Manager icon on your panel? On my Latitude D400, when I right-click on that icon, chose "Information" the first tab that comes up is "Device Information." If I open the "More" tab, it tells me all kinds of information about my battery, including "Capacity" -- which I think is what you're looking for? (Mine shows 87% with "Fair" in paranthethes.) It's possible that different batteries interact differently with the Power Manager, though.
-
Anne Wilson -
Blake Hudson -
cornel panceac -
Craig White -
Jake Shipton -
John R Pierce -
Johnny Hughes -
Kwan Lowe -
RedShift -
Robert Heller -
Robert Moskowitz -
Ron Blizzard