On Friday, February 26, 2021 8:33 AM, Johnny Hughes <johnny at centos.org> wrote: > I get it, people want what they had. Hell, I want it too. If / When > the other downstream RHEL source code builds happen, use them if that is > what you want. None of that requires bashing CentOS. CentOS is not > bashing any of those distros. Ok. But why is that what you want too? Why isn't KW's blog post enough to consider Stream a win-win? There seems to be belief that CentOS being a downstream will provide better QA than CentOS as an upstream. I think KW was right that with a community drive of CD/CI that being an Upstream will be a win-win. I see two reasons why on the CentOS 8 termination date why adoption of Stream 8 might be poor. First is it sounds like Stream 8 will already be a de-focused project by that date. It isn't clear my request for a breakdown on the Stream 8 kernel patches will ever be honored. I see going from CentOS 8 to Stream 9 as much more jarring then transitioning to Stream 8. The project should be putting it's best foot forward on Stream 8 first and then focusing on 9. Second is the timing of getting CD/CI to a mature state. Some of the CD/CI test I see needed are complex and I can't find any current public example code of how to perform. If there is a CVE which causes a denial of service, what is the establish procedure of testing if the problem still exists? Is there any existing CD/CI tests that are performed in a VM with external monitoring to see if the test passes or fails (if the VM becomes unresponsive)? If I am able to get a complex test that a current C8S package fails in April, how soon should we expect a fix and rebuild of the package? What if the fix reveals more tests are needed that it then also fails? Is there any point in which a potential Stream adopter starts a 90 day evaluation of Stream in October while there are packages that are failing CD/CI tests because the packages haven't been rebuilt yet? What was the basis for the determination Jan 1, 2022 is the best date to promote Stream focus/adoption? Rich Bowen has pointed out multiple times the community through it's contributions gets a say in the success or failure of Stream. I believe to some extent that is true. But at the same time, we have already been vetoed on deciding when we are in a ready state. There is no attempt to seek community consensus on the target date. If we just drive people to other RHEL clones then we have lost building a focus with those people around Stream. Isn't that enough reason to lay out a set of prerequisites for a "when Stream is ready" criteria before shutting down CentOS 8?