On 17/05/2021 20:30, Johnny Hughes wrote: > On 5/17/21 1:46 PM, Mike McGrath wrote: >> >> >> On Mon, May 17, 2021 at 1:34 PM Phil Perry <pperry at elrepo.org >> <mailto:pperry at elrepo.org>> wrote: >> >> On 17/05/2021 18:49, Troy Dawson wrote: >> > >> > >> > On Mon, May 17, 2021 at 10:41 AM Phil Perry <pperry at elrepo.org >> <mailto:pperry at elrepo.org> >> > <mailto:pperry at elrepo.org <mailto:pperry at elrepo.org>>> wrote: >> > >> > On 17/05/2021 14:32, Troy Dawson wrote: >> > > >> > > >> > > On Mon, May 17, 2021 at 6:22 AM Fabian Arrotin >> <arrfab at centos.org <mailto:arrfab at centos.org> >> > <mailto:arrfab at centos.org <mailto:arrfab at centos.org>> >> > > <mailto:arrfab at centos.org <mailto:arrfab at centos.org> >> <mailto:arrfab at centos.org <mailto:arrfab at centos.org>>>> wrote: >> > > >> > > On 17/05/2021 15:10, Troy Dawson wrote: >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > On Sat, May 15, 2021 at 6:47 AM Leon Fauster via >> CentOS-devel >> > > > <centos-devel at centos.org >> <mailto:centos-devel at centos.org> <mailto:centos-devel at centos.org >> <mailto:centos-devel at centos.org>> >> > <mailto:centos-devel at centos.org >> <mailto:centos-devel at centos.org> <mailto:centos-devel at centos.org >> <mailto:centos-devel at centos.org>>> >> > > <mailto:centos-devel at centos.org >> <mailto:centos-devel at centos.org> >> > <mailto:centos-devel at centos.org >> <mailto:centos-devel at centos.org>> <mailto:centos-devel at centos.org >> <mailto:centos-devel at centos.org> >> > <mailto:centos-devel at centos.org >> <mailto:centos-devel at centos.org>>>>> >> > > wrote: >> > > > >> > > > On 15.05.21 06:51, Troy Dawson wrote: >> > > > > Back when the CentOS 8 Devel repo[1] was >> originally >> > > introduced, the >> > > > > CentOS Stream 8 Devel repo[2] was kept empty. >> > > > > Now that CentOS 8 is going away, and we are >> expected to >> > > develop on >> > > > > CentOS Stream 8, could we please get CentOS >> Stream 8 >> > Devel >> > > populated >> > > > > with the same packages it once had. >> > > > > >> > > > > I know there is an initiative for all the >> missing -devel >> > > packages to >> > > > > appear somewhere at sometime. But here is my >> problem. >> > > > > I'm trying to get KDE rebuilt for CentOS Stream 8 >> > due to the >> > > > updated qt5 >> > > > > that is now in Stream. >> > > > > plasma-nm, a fairly important piece of KDE, >> requires >> > > > > mobile-broadband-provider-info-devel which is >> in the >> > Devel >> > > repo. >> > > > > From what I see, the fastest way to get >> > > > > mobile-broadband-provider-info-devel somewhere >> that >> > I can >> > > consume >> > > > it on >> > > > > Stream is via the Devel repo. >> > > > > Thus my question. >> > > > > >> > > > > Can we get CentOS Stream 8 Devel populated with >> > whatever is >> > > in the >> > > > > regular Devel repo. >> > > > > >> > > > > Thanks >> > > > > Troy Dawson >> > > > > >> > > > > [1] - >> > > http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/ >> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/> >> > <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/ >> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/>> >> > > >> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/ >> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/> >> > <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/ >> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/>>> >> > > > >> > <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/ >> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/> >> > <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/ >> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/>> >> > > >> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/ >> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/> >> > <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/ >> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/>>>> >> > > > > >> > > >> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/ >> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/> >> > <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/ >> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/>> >> > > >> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/ >> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/> >> > <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/ >> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/>>> >> > > > >> > <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/ >> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/> >> > <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/ >> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/>> >> > > >> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/ >> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/> >> > <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/ >> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/>>>>> >> > > > > [2] - >> > > > >> > > >> > >> http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/ >> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/> >> > >> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/ >> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/>> >> > > >> > >> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/ >> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/> >> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/ >> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/>>> >> > > > >> > > >> > >> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/ >> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/> >> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/ >> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/ >> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/> >> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/ >> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/>>>> >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/ >> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/> >> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/ >> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/ >> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/> >> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/ >> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/>>> >> > > > >> > > >> > >> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/ >> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/> >> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/ >> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/ >> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/> >> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/ >> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/>>>>> >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > JFI: >> > > > >> > > > Downloads from koji instance allowed now. >> > > > https://koji.mbox.centos.org/pkgs/packages/ >> <https://koji.mbox.centos.org/pkgs/packages/> >> > <https://koji.mbox.centos.org/pkgs/packages/ >> <https://koji.mbox.centos.org/pkgs/packages/>> >> > > <https://koji.mbox.centos.org/pkgs/packages/ >> <https://koji.mbox.centos.org/pkgs/packages/> >> > <https://koji.mbox.centos.org/pkgs/packages/ >> <https://koji.mbox.centos.org/pkgs/packages/>>> >> > > > <https://koji.mbox.centos.org/pkgs/packages/ >> <https://koji.mbox.centos.org/pkgs/packages/> >> > <https://koji.mbox.centos.org/pkgs/packages/ >> <https://koji.mbox.centos.org/pkgs/packages/>> >> > > <https://koji.mbox.centos.org/pkgs/packages/ >> <https://koji.mbox.centos.org/pkgs/packages/> >> > <https://koji.mbox.centos.org/pkgs/packages/ >> <https://koji.mbox.centos.org/pkgs/packages/>>>> >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > True, but that doesn't get them into the EPEL or >> COPR build >> > > environment. >> > > > >> > > > Troy >> > > > >> > > >> > > Hi Troy, >> > > >> > > As you're now part of the CentOS Stream team, when can we >> > expect to see >> > > that Devel repo being populated ? that would help for now >> > SIGs building >> > > in cbs.centos.org <http://cbs.centos.org> >> <http://cbs.centos.org <http://cbs.centos.org>> >> > <http://cbs.centos.org <http://cbs.centos.org> >> <http://cbs.centos.org <http://cbs.centos.org>>> (and we have also again >> > > other requests for built but >> > > unreleased pkgs in Devel repo, so having a status update on >> > that one >> > > would be good too) >> > > >> > > >> > > Well played good sir. >> > > Unfortunately I only deal with the CentOS Stream 9 stuff, >> but I will >> > > bring it up in the team meeting. >> > > >> > > I wrote this email on the centos-devel mailing list, as an EPEL >> > package >> > > maintainer, that has a problem. Because my EPEL work is >> done in my >> > > spare time, and it's a legitimate EPEL packager problem. >> And I'd >> > like >> > > the solution to be public, and not behind closed doors. >> > > >> > > Troy >> > > >> > >> > I'm not sure I understand why this is even an issue anymore. >> Now CentOS >> > Stream is upstream of RHEL, surely there are no constraints to >> only >> > ship >> > what RHEL (downstream) ships? Why wouldn't CentOS Stream >> simply ship >> > everything and if RHEL decides upon a policy to only >> ship/support a >> > certain subset of (-devel) packages, that is a RH/RHEL >> decision that >> > can >> > be implemented downstream by removing the bits they don't want to >> > ship/support and should have zero impact upstream? RH/RHEL are >> free to >> > do whatever they want downstream. >> > >> > Or have I completely misunderstood the relationship here? >> > >> >> Hi Troy, >> >> > >> > Actually, you understood it correctly. >> > >> > It seems an email got misplaced. When it was announced that CentOS >> > Stream 9 koji build system, including the buildroot, was now >> publically >> > available, there was also supposed to be a similar announcement >> > concerning CentOS Stream 8. For some reason, that announcement >> failed >> > to get sent. >> > >> > So, you are correct, there currently is a way for the EPEL >> community (or >> > COPR, or whoever wants) to get access to the CentOS Stream 8 build >> > system and complete buildroot. I simply was not aware of it. >> > >> >> Except, as you stated earlier in the thread, they are not in the CentOS >> Stream repos, so it is still not possible to easily pull them into >> build >> environments. >> >> I believe your question is valid. Why are these packages being excluded >> from CenOS Stream in the first place? I understand why they are >> excluded >> from CentOS Linux 8, as that is a like for like rebuild of RHEL 8, and >> what is not in RHEL will not be in CentOS Linux. But CentOS Stream is >> upstream of RHEL, not downstream, so I do not understand why ANY built >> devel packages are excluded from the CentOS Stream repos. Why would you >> not ship everything you build??? RHEL policy decisions should not >> affect >> what happens upstream. >> >> >> This is mostly because we also don't ship it in RHEL and we don't ship >> it there because we don't want to be on the hook to support it (even >> RHEL has a budget and limited resources). >> >> As far as CentOS Stream, the promise is that if it runs in CentOS Stream >> today it should run in the next version of RHEL. By including content >> in Stream that we don't include in RHEL, suddenly that promise is broken >> if someone accidentally uses it assuming it's in RHEL. >> >> I'm not saying there aren't ways to work through these issues, but I >> wanted to give some ideas as to the thought process that got us here. >> >> -Mike >> >> > > Mike, > > That is all well and good .. but it is your guys (EPEL and Red Hat SIGs) > that need this Development content to be in CentOS Stream and the CentOS > Community Build System to build things. (I can build things as this > content is already in my Koji buildroot). > > And it is me, this list, and the CentOS Stream group that keep getting > asked (by EPEL and the RH SIGs) why this open source stuff can not be in > CentOS Linux, CentOS Stream and the CBS. > > Surely we can set up a non RHEL released repo that your guys can use to > build the things that they want. > > Thanks, > Johnny Hughes But from what Mike just said, EPEL/SIGs should be building against those missing -devel packages on Stream because anything built on Stream must also run on RHEL?