On 17/05/2021 20:46, Phil Perry wrote: > On 17/05/2021 20:30, Johnny Hughes wrote: >> On 5/17/21 1:46 PM, Mike McGrath wrote: >>> >>> >>> On Mon, May 17, 2021 at 1:34 PM Phil Perry <pperry at elrepo.org >>> <mailto:pperry at elrepo.org>> wrote: >>> >>> On 17/05/2021 18:49, Troy Dawson wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> > On Mon, May 17, 2021 at 10:41 AM Phil Perry <pperry at elrepo.org >>> <mailto:pperry at elrepo.org> >>> > <mailto:pperry at elrepo.org <mailto:pperry at elrepo.org>>> wrote: >>> > >>> > On 17/05/2021 14:32, Troy Dawson wrote: >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > On Mon, May 17, 2021 at 6:22 AM Fabian Arrotin >>> <arrfab at centos.org <mailto:arrfab at centos.org> >>> > <mailto:arrfab at centos.org <mailto:arrfab at centos.org>> >>> > > <mailto:arrfab at centos.org <mailto:arrfab at centos.org> >>> <mailto:arrfab at centos.org <mailto:arrfab at centos.org>>>> wrote: >>> > > >>> > > On 17/05/2021 15:10, Troy Dawson wrote: >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > On Sat, May 15, 2021 at 6:47 AM Leon Fauster via >>> CentOS-devel >>> > > > <centos-devel at centos.org >>> <mailto:centos-devel at centos.org> <mailto:centos-devel at centos.org >>> <mailto:centos-devel at centos.org>> >>> > <mailto:centos-devel at centos.org >>> <mailto:centos-devel at centos.org> <mailto:centos-devel at centos.org >>> <mailto:centos-devel at centos.org>>> >>> > > <mailto:centos-devel at centos.org >>> <mailto:centos-devel at centos.org> >>> > <mailto:centos-devel at centos.org >>> <mailto:centos-devel at centos.org>> <mailto:centos-devel at centos.org >>> <mailto:centos-devel at centos.org> >>> > <mailto:centos-devel at centos.org >>> <mailto:centos-devel at centos.org>>>>> >>> > > wrote: >>> > > > >>> > > > On 15.05.21 06:51, Troy Dawson wrote: >>> > > > > Back when the CentOS 8 Devel repo[1] was >>> originally >>> > > introduced, the >>> > > > > CentOS Stream 8 Devel repo[2] was kept empty. >>> > > > > Now that CentOS 8 is going away, and we are >>> expected to >>> > > develop on >>> > > > > CentOS Stream 8, could we please get CentOS >>> Stream 8 >>> > Devel >>> > > populated >>> > > > > with the same packages it once had. >>> > > > > >>> > > > > I know there is an initiative for all the >>> missing -devel >>> > > packages to >>> > > > > appear somewhere at sometime. But here is my >>> problem. >>> > > > > I'm trying to get KDE rebuilt for CentOS >>> Stream 8 >>> > due to the >>> > > > updated qt5 >>> > > > > that is now in Stream. >>> > > > > plasma-nm, a fairly important piece of KDE, >>> requires >>> > > > > mobile-broadband-provider-info-devel which is >>> in the >>> > Devel >>> > > repo. >>> > > > > From what I see, the fastest way to get >>> > > > > mobile-broadband-provider-info-devel >>> somewhere >>> that >>> > I can >>> > > consume >>> > > > it on >>> > > > > Stream is via the Devel repo. >>> > > > > Thus my question. >>> > > > > >>> > > > > Can we get CentOS Stream 8 Devel populated >>> with >>> > whatever is >>> > > in the >>> > > > > regular Devel repo. >>> > > > > >>> > > > > Thanks >>> > > > > Troy Dawson >>> > > > > >>> > > > > [1] - >>> > > >>> http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/ >>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/> >>> > <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/ >>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/>> >>> > > >>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/ >>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/> >>> > <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/ >>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/>>> >>> > > > >>> > >>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/ >>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/> >>> > <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/ >>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/>> >>> > > >>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/ >>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/> >>> > <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/ >>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/>>>> >>> > > > > >>> > > >>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/ >>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/> >>> > <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/ >>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/>> >>> > > >>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/ >>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/> >>> > <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/ >>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/>>> >>> > > > >>> > >>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/ >>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/> >>> > <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/ >>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/>> >>> > > >>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/ >>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/> >>> > <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/ >>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/>>>>> >>> > > > > [2] - >>> > > > >>> > > >>> > >>> http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/ >>> >>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/> >>> > >>> >>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/ >>> >>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/>> >>> > > >>> > >>> >>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/ >>> >>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/> >>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/ >>> >>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/>>> >>> > > > >>> > > >>> > >>> >>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/ >>> >>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/> >>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/ >>> >>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/>> >>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/ >>> >>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/> >>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/ >>> >>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/>>>> >>> > > > > >>> > > > >>> > > >>> > >>> >>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/ >>> >>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/> >>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/ >>> >>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/>> >>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/ >>> >>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/> >>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/ >>> >>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/>>> >>> > > > >>> > > >>> > >>> >>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/ >>> >>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/> >>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/ >>> >>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/>> >>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/ >>> >>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/> >>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/ >>> >>> <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/Devel/x86_64/os/Packages/>>>>> >>> > > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > JFI: >>> > > > >>> > > > Downloads from koji instance allowed now. >>> > > > https://koji.mbox.centos.org/pkgs/packages/ >>> <https://koji.mbox.centos.org/pkgs/packages/> >>> > <https://koji.mbox.centos.org/pkgs/packages/ >>> <https://koji.mbox.centos.org/pkgs/packages/>> >>> > > <https://koji.mbox.centos.org/pkgs/packages/ >>> <https://koji.mbox.centos.org/pkgs/packages/> >>> > <https://koji.mbox.centos.org/pkgs/packages/ >>> <https://koji.mbox.centos.org/pkgs/packages/>>> >>> > > > <https://koji.mbox.centos.org/pkgs/packages/ >>> <https://koji.mbox.centos.org/pkgs/packages/> >>> > <https://koji.mbox.centos.org/pkgs/packages/ >>> <https://koji.mbox.centos.org/pkgs/packages/>> >>> > > <https://koji.mbox.centos.org/pkgs/packages/ >>> <https://koji.mbox.centos.org/pkgs/packages/> >>> > <https://koji.mbox.centos.org/pkgs/packages/ >>> <https://koji.mbox.centos.org/pkgs/packages/>>>> >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > True, but that doesn't get them into the EPEL or >>> COPR build >>> > > environment. >>> > > > >>> > > > Troy >>> > > > >>> > > >>> > > Hi Troy, >>> > > >>> > > As you're now part of the CentOS Stream team, when >>> can we >>> > expect to see >>> > > that Devel repo being populated ? that would help >>> for now >>> > SIGs building >>> > > in cbs.centos.org <http://cbs.centos.org> >>> <http://cbs.centos.org <http://cbs.centos.org>> >>> > <http://cbs.centos.org <http://cbs.centos.org> >>> <http://cbs.centos.org <http://cbs.centos.org>>> (and we have >>> also again >>> > > other requests for built but >>> > > unreleased pkgs in Devel repo, so having a status >>> update on >>> > that one >>> > > would be good too) >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > Well played good sir. >>> > > Unfortunately I only deal with the CentOS Stream 9 stuff, >>> but I will >>> > > bring it up in the team meeting. >>> > > >>> > > I wrote this email on the centos-devel mailing list, as >>> an EPEL >>> > package >>> > > maintainer, that has a problem. Because my EPEL work is >>> done in my >>> > > spare time, and it's a legitimate EPEL packager problem. >>> And I'd >>> > like >>> > > the solution to be public, and not behind closed doors. >>> > > >>> > > Troy >>> > > >>> > >>> > I'm not sure I understand why this is even an issue anymore. >>> Now CentOS >>> > Stream is upstream of RHEL, surely there are no >>> constraints to >>> only >>> > ship >>> > what RHEL (downstream) ships? Why wouldn't CentOS Stream >>> simply ship >>> > everything and if RHEL decides upon a policy to only >>> ship/support a >>> > certain subset of (-devel) packages, that is a RH/RHEL >>> decision that >>> > can >>> > be implemented downstream by removing the bits they don't >>> want to >>> > ship/support and should have zero impact upstream? RH/RHEL >>> are >>> free to >>> > do whatever they want downstream. >>> > >>> > Or have I completely misunderstood the relationship here? >>> > >>> >>> Hi Troy, >>> >>> > >>> > Actually, you understood it correctly. >>> > >>> > It seems an email got misplaced. When it was announced that >>> CentOS >>> > Stream 9 koji build system, including the buildroot, was now >>> publically >>> > available, there was also supposed to be a similar announcement >>> > concerning CentOS Stream 8. For some reason, that announcement >>> failed >>> > to get sent. >>> > >>> > So, you are correct, there currently is a way for the EPEL >>> community (or >>> > COPR, or whoever wants) to get access to the CentOS Stream 8 >>> build >>> > system and complete buildroot. I simply was not aware of it. >>> > >>> >>> Except, as you stated earlier in the thread, they are not in the >>> CentOS >>> Stream repos, so it is still not possible to easily pull them into >>> build >>> environments. >>> >>> I believe your question is valid. Why are these packages being >>> excluded >>> from CenOS Stream in the first place? I understand why they are >>> excluded >>> from CentOS Linux 8, as that is a like for like rebuild of RHEL >>> 8, and >>> what is not in RHEL will not be in CentOS Linux. But CentOS >>> Stream is >>> upstream of RHEL, not downstream, so I do not understand why ANY >>> built >>> devel packages are excluded from the CentOS Stream repos. Why >>> would you >>> not ship everything you build??? RHEL policy decisions should not >>> affect >>> what happens upstream. >>> >>> >>> This is mostly because we also don't ship it in RHEL and we don't ship >>> it there because we don't want to be on the hook to support it (even >>> RHEL has a budget and limited resources). >>> >>> As far as CentOS Stream, the promise is that if it runs in CentOS Stream >>> today it should run in the next version of RHEL. By including content >>> in Stream that we don't include in RHEL, suddenly that promise is broken >>> if someone accidentally uses it assuming it's in RHEL. >>> >>> I'm not saying there aren't ways to work through these issues, but I >>> wanted to give some ideas as to the thought process that got us here. >>> >>> -Mike >>> >> >> Mike, >> >> That is all well and good .. but it is your guys (EPEL and Red Hat SIGs) >> that need this Development content to be in CentOS Stream and the CentOS >> Community Build System to build things. (I can build things as this >> content is already in my Koji buildroot). >> >> And it is me, this list, and the CentOS Stream group that keep getting >> asked (by EPEL and the RH SIGs) why this open source stuff can not be in >> CentOS Linux, CentOS Stream and the CBS. >> >> Surely we can set up a non RHEL released repo that your guys can use to >> build the things that they want. >> >> Thanks, >> Johnny Hughes > > > But from what Mike just said, EPEL/SIGs should be building against those > missing -devel packages on Stream because anything built on Stream must > also run on RHEL? > Sorry, typo - EPEL/SIGs should NOT be building against those missing -devel packages...