[CentOS-devel] Alternative Images SIG kickoff

Tue Nov 8 21:28:52 UTC 2022
Troy Dawson <tdawson at redhat.com>

On Mon, Nov 7, 2022 at 11:38 PM Fabian Arrotin <arrfab at centos.org> wrote:

> On 02/11/2022 14:52, Troy Dawson wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 1, 2022 at 5:16 PM Neal Gompa <ngompa13 at gmail.com
> > <mailto:ngompa13 at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> >     On Tue, Nov 1, 2022 at 5:18 PM Troy Dawson <tdawson at redhat.com
> >     <mailto:tdawson at redhat.com>> wrote:
> >      >
> >      > The CentOS Alternative Images SIG is finally official.[1]  Time
> >     to get things rolling.
> >      > I have setup an IRC channel #centos-alt-images and a pagure
> >     group[2], along with a sig repo[3] to track issues and documentation.
> >      >
> >      > I have requested a weekly meeting[4], Tuesdays at 1600 UTC on
> >     #centos-meeting.
> >      > It is currently weekly, but as things get setup we'll slow that
> >     down to bi-weekly and possibly monthly.  We can also work on a
> >     better time, but for now, that's what we have.
> >      >
> >      > Everybody is welcome to join and contribute to the SIG. The
> >     current set of members is:
> >      > * Troy Dawson
> >      > * Neal Gompa
> >      > * Robby Callicotte
> >      > * Brian Stinson
> >      > * Ondřej Budai
> >      > * Davida Cavalca
> >      > *Ali Erdinc Koroglu
> >      >
> >      > Roadmap and (Action) TODO List
> >      > * SIG Setup
> >      > ** Officially become a SIG (DONE)
> >      > ** Determine when our meetings will be (DONE FOR NOW)
> >      > *** Get them on the calendar (IN PROGRESS)
> >      > ** Basic SIG Infrastructure setup
> >      > *** IRC channel created (DONE)
> >      > *** Git repo created (DONE)
> >      >
> >      > * Documentation Created
> >      > ** Basic SIG documentation (STARTED)
> >      > *** Configuration for creating images (NEED)
> >      > *** Instructions for creating images (NEED)
> >      > ** Configuration templates for members / potential members (NEED)
> >      > ** Instructions for end users
> >      > *** Where to get the images (NEED)
> >      > *** How to use the images (NEED)
> >      >
> >      > * Infrastructure Setup
> >      > * Install Imagebuilding setup in CentOS Stream and/or Fedora
> (NEED)
> >      > * Live Image building setup in CentOS Stream and/or Fedora (NEED)
> >      > * Images to Mirrors setup (NEED)
> >
> >     As part of existing Hyperscale work, I'm working with Tomas Kopecek
> >     and Fabian Arrotin to get kiwi going in Koji for building images in
> >     CBS: https://pagure.io/centos-infra/issue/696
> >     <https://pagure.io/centos-infra/issue/696>
> >
> >     I'm hoping this will get into a good place and be rolled out soon. :)
> >
> >
> > That is great Neal.  Thank you for all you and the Hyperscale SIG have
> done.
> >
> > Since that is still a little ways off, I was thinking our first image
> > could be
> > a basic Minimal install image.  It would be a stand alone install image,
> > but only have the packages you would get if you did a minimal install.
> >
> > Doing that minimal install image would get all our permissions in place,
> > our scripts and kickstarts in their places, and our initial workflow
> > worked out.
> > Since it would be a fairly small image, it wouldn't tax resources too
> much
> > while we worked things out.
> >
> > Troy
> >
>
> At this stage, there is no process on how to let SIGs produce their own
> spins.
>
> I see that CentOS board (and Davide) wrote this though :
> https://sigs.centos.org/guide/spin/ but it doesn't explain in details
> how to proceed.
>
> Neal mentioned kiwi (still not working, but it's investigated at koji
> side), while other people are pushing harder for ImageBuilder. (seems
> the future)
>
> So ideally we'd have a discussion on this list about how that should be
> done/built.
> And after that, we'll have to work on the releng part to let SIGs tag
> such images so that they'll go out to the mirror network : so far we
> only had to deal with RPM packages/repositories, and so the current
> scripts that signs/pushes pkgs wouldn't know what to with cloud
> images/appliances/iso images :) ...
> Should be be easy to plumb though, the same way we already worked on the
> .iso for the Kmods SIGs (https://pagure.io/centos-infra/issue/418)
>
> So my take on this new SIG is : before anything else, it should be
> discussed here (and common process so that we don't have different ones
> in parallel)
>
> @Troy : as you started the SIG, what's the tool you had in mind that
> interact with koji/cbs.centos.org to let you build images ? So far we
> have an ImageFactory/OZ combo in place, but that was never used though.
>

I was planning on using whatever was already setup that allows us
to build the images, test them in some way, and work them onto the mirrors.

If ImageFactory / OZ is what you have, I'm ok with that, at least for now.

I know Neal wants to do Kiwi for live images, and it looks like it's almost
ready.
I'm fine with that also.

I think it comes down to capabilities, and that's where I'm not the best.
>From the conversations, it sounds like we want three types of images.

A - Normal installer Images
B - Live Images
C - rpm-ostree Images

There might be some combination of those, like Live images that do an
install, or a normal installer image that installs an rpm-ostree image.
But for now, let's stick with those three.

* ImageFactory / OZ :
A - Normal installer Images - Yes, I've done that.
B - Live Images - I don't know
C - rpm-ostree Images - I don't know, but I don't think so

* Kiwi :
A - Normal installer Images -  I don't know but I think so
B - Live Images - Yes
C - rpm-ostree Images - I don't know, but I don't think so

* OSBS :
A - Normal installer Images - Yes, I've done that.
B - Live Images - I don't know
C - rpm-ostree Images - I don't know, but I don't think so

* ImageBuilder :
A - Normal installer Images - Yes
B - Live Images - I don't know
C - rpm-ostree Images - Yes

In the back of my mind, I was hoping that we might be able to utilize the
same ImageBuilder as Fedora,
so that we wouldn't have to double implement the same infrastructure, but I
don't know how feasible that is.

At this point, I think I'm rambling.
What are others thoughts?
Do people know the capabilities of the programs above?
Am I missing something?

Troy
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