On Tue, Nov 8, 2022 at 4:29 PM Troy Dawson <tdawson at redhat.com> wrote: > > On Mon, Nov 7, 2022 at 11:38 PM Fabian Arrotin <arrfab at centos.org> wrote: >> >> On 02/11/2022 14:52, Troy Dawson wrote: >> > >> > >> > On Tue, Nov 1, 2022 at 5:16 PM Neal Gompa <ngompa13 at gmail.com >> > <mailto:ngompa13 at gmail.com>> wrote: >> > >> > On Tue, Nov 1, 2022 at 5:18 PM Troy Dawson <tdawson at redhat.com >> > <mailto:tdawson at redhat.com>> wrote: >> > > >> > > The CentOS Alternative Images SIG is finally official.[1] Time >> > to get things rolling. >> > > I have setup an IRC channel #centos-alt-images and a pagure >> > group[2], along with a sig repo[3] to track issues and documentation. >> > > >> > > I have requested a weekly meeting[4], Tuesdays at 1600 UTC on >> > #centos-meeting. >> > > It is currently weekly, but as things get setup we'll slow that >> > down to bi-weekly and possibly monthly. We can also work on a >> > better time, but for now, that's what we have. >> > > >> > > Everybody is welcome to join and contribute to the SIG. The >> > current set of members is: >> > > * Troy Dawson >> > > * Neal Gompa >> > > * Robby Callicotte >> > > * Brian Stinson >> > > * Ondřej Budai >> > > * Davida Cavalca >> > > *Ali Erdinc Koroglu >> > > >> > > Roadmap and (Action) TODO List >> > > * SIG Setup >> > > ** Officially become a SIG (DONE) >> > > ** Determine when our meetings will be (DONE FOR NOW) >> > > *** Get them on the calendar (IN PROGRESS) >> > > ** Basic SIG Infrastructure setup >> > > *** IRC channel created (DONE) >> > > *** Git repo created (DONE) >> > > >> > > * Documentation Created >> > > ** Basic SIG documentation (STARTED) >> > > *** Configuration for creating images (NEED) >> > > *** Instructions for creating images (NEED) >> > > ** Configuration templates for members / potential members (NEED) >> > > ** Instructions for end users >> > > *** Where to get the images (NEED) >> > > *** How to use the images (NEED) >> > > >> > > * Infrastructure Setup >> > > * Install Imagebuilding setup in CentOS Stream and/or Fedora (NEED) >> > > * Live Image building setup in CentOS Stream and/or Fedora (NEED) >> > > * Images to Mirrors setup (NEED) >> > >> > As part of existing Hyperscale work, I'm working with Tomas Kopecek >> > and Fabian Arrotin to get kiwi going in Koji for building images in >> > CBS: https://pagure.io/centos-infra/issue/696 >> > <https://pagure.io/centos-infra/issue/696> >> > >> > I'm hoping this will get into a good place and be rolled out soon. :) >> > >> > >> > That is great Neal. Thank you for all you and the Hyperscale SIG have done. >> > >> > Since that is still a little ways off, I was thinking our first image >> > could be >> > a basic Minimal install image. It would be a stand alone install image, >> > but only have the packages you would get if you did a minimal install. >> > >> > Doing that minimal install image would get all our permissions in place, >> > our scripts and kickstarts in their places, and our initial workflow >> > worked out. >> > Since it would be a fairly small image, it wouldn't tax resources too much >> > while we worked things out. >> > >> > Troy >> > >> >> At this stage, there is no process on how to let SIGs produce their own >> spins. >> >> I see that CentOS board (and Davide) wrote this though : >> https://sigs.centos.org/guide/spin/ but it doesn't explain in details >> how to proceed. >> >> Neal mentioned kiwi (still not working, but it's investigated at koji >> side), while other people are pushing harder for ImageBuilder. (seems >> the future) >> >> So ideally we'd have a discussion on this list about how that should be >> done/built. >> And after that, we'll have to work on the releng part to let SIGs tag >> such images so that they'll go out to the mirror network : so far we >> only had to deal with RPM packages/repositories, and so the current >> scripts that signs/pushes pkgs wouldn't know what to with cloud >> images/appliances/iso images :) ... >> Should be be easy to plumb though, the same way we already worked on the >> .iso for the Kmods SIGs (https://pagure.io/centos-infra/issue/418) >> >> So my take on this new SIG is : before anything else, it should be >> discussed here (and common process so that we don't have different ones >> in parallel) >> >> @Troy : as you started the SIG, what's the tool you had in mind that >> interact with koji/cbs.centos.org to let you build images ? So far we >> have an ImageFactory/OZ combo in place, but that was never used though. > > > I was planning on using whatever was already setup that allows us > to build the images, test them in some way, and work them onto the mirrors. > > If ImageFactory / OZ is what you have, I'm ok with that, at least for now. > > I know Neal wants to do Kiwi for live images, and it looks like it's almost ready. > I'm fine with that also. > > I think it comes down to capabilities, and that's where I'm not the best. > From the conversations, it sounds like we want three types of images. > > A - Normal installer Images > B - Live Images > C - rpm-ostree Images > > There might be some combination of those, like Live images that do an install, or a normal installer image that installs an rpm-ostree image. But for now, let's stick with those three. > > * ImageFactory / OZ : > A - Normal installer Images - Yes, I've done that. > B - Live Images - I don't know > C - rpm-ostree Images - I don't know, but I don't think so > > * Kiwi : > A - Normal installer Images - I don't know but I think so > B - Live Images - Yes > C - rpm-ostree Images - I don't know, but I don't think so > It would be technically possible to produce netinstall ISOs, but producing install DVDs is harder, since the trick with install DVDs is you need to create an anaconda repo to embed in the image. Only Lorax can create those currently. I don't know how the logic works for that, but if I did, it might be possible to create install DVDs with kiwi too. KIWI can make "install ISOs" (that install disk image payloads to disk), live media, container images, WSL images, etc. We can't create rpm-ostree images yet because we don't have a backend for it yet: https://github.com/OSInside/kiwi/issues/38 > * OSBS : > A - Normal installer Images - Yes, I've done that. > B - Live Images - I don't know > C - rpm-ostree Images - I don't know, but I don't think so > > * ImageBuilder : > A - Normal installer Images - Yes > B - Live Images - I don't know > C - rpm-ostree Images - Yes > > In the back of my mind, I was hoping that we might be able to utilize the same ImageBuilder as Fedora, > so that we wouldn't have to double implement the same infrastructure, but I don't know how feasible that is. > OSBuild cannot create installer images beyond the custom image payload installs that are used for RHEL for Edge right now. Traditional install DVDs can only be created by Lorax, as far as I know. -- 真実はいつも一つ！/ Always, there's only one truth!