[CentOS-virt] Actions and IRC log from May 6th VIRT SIG meeting

Tue May 6 14:31:27 UTC 2014
Lars Kurth <lars.kurth at xen.org>

Hi all,
I summarized actions on 
http://wiki.centos.org/SpecialInterestGroup/Virtualization/Status tagged 
with 06/05
The meeting LOG is below

lars_kurth 	How do you want to run this? We have a set of lose ends: the 
roadmap via 
kbsingh <ircs://freenode/kbsingh,isnick> 	if someone (lars?) wants to 
just do it point by point we can run through those.
lars_kurth 	And some open actions: 
kbsingh <ircs://freenode/kbsingh,isnick> 	there is a 60 min hard stop at 
the end
jonludlam <ircs://freenode/jonludlam,isnick> 	hi all
lars_kurth 	How about the following: Actions first, then George can do 
the roadmap?
kbsingh <ircs://freenode/kbsingh,isnick> 	ok, works for me
lars_kurth 	Do we all have 
<http://wiki.centos.org/SpecialInterestGroup/Virtualization/Status> up?
kbsingh <ircs://freenode/kbsingh,isnick> 	i do
gwd <ircs://freenode/gwd,isnick> 	yep
pasik <ircs://freenode/pasik,isnick> 	yep
lars_kurth 	kbsingh: there were 3 technical items on you. I know you and 
hughesjr and gwd had a conversation
kbsingh <ircs://freenode/kbsingh,isnick> 	i believe gwd is setup with 
the basic workflow, and has git access
lars_kurth 	last week. Is there anything that can be ticked off in the 
technical category?
kbsingh <ircs://freenode/kbsingh,isnick> 	we only imported the main xen 
repo at this point, but if things are looking ok and if the process is 
something we can work with - i cna go ahead and import the rest of the 
gwd <ircs://freenode/gwd,isnick> 	So it's imported into git.centos.org?
kbsingh <ircs://freenode/kbsingh,isnick> 	humm
lars_kurth 	kbsingh: what would the URL be?
kbsingh <ircs://freenode/kbsingh,isnick> 
kbsingh <ircs://freenode/kbsingh,isnick> 	is where it should come up on
lars_kurth 	definitely there
kbsingh <ircs://freenode/kbsingh,isnick> 	right, so the blocker was how 
are we going to organise the git repos on github - are we going to setup 
some teams at the project level or the repos level
kbsingh <ircs://freenode/kbsingh,isnick> 
is the conversation
kbsingh <ircs://freenode/kbsingh,isnick> 	i dont believe we all got to a 
result there.
lars_kurth 	Do we need to reply to this thread?
lars_kurth 	Or is this more general?
gwd <ircs://freenode/gwd,isnick> 	Well you had asked about having a 
different org for each sig, and Karsten said that sounded reasonable.
gwd <ircs://freenode/gwd,isnick> 	Is there any reason not to give that a 
try for now?
lars_kurth 	Can we close this now. Or do we just have an action to 
engage with the discussion?
gwd <ircs://freenode/gwd,isnick> 	I can reply to the thread.
kbsingh <ircs://freenode/kbsingh,isnick> 	there are a couple of threads 
that fall out from this
kbsingh <ircs://freenode/kbsingh,isnick> 	eg. where is the kernel going 
to be maintained - and is every sig that needs a kernel then going to 
need to maintain the entire thing
kbsingh <ircs://freenode/kbsingh,isnick> 	or can we just have a single 
git repo, with sig's maintaining their own branches
hughesjr <ircs://freenode/hughesjr,isnick> 	I see a meeting in progress 
lars_kurth 	hughesjr: hi. A little painful on IRC, but welcome
lars_kurth 	kbsingh: does sounds like a centos-wide decision that needs 
to be made. I propose to take an action for gwd and me to replay to the 
respective threads.
gwd <ircs://freenode/gwd,isnick> 	Is there really a difference? Isn't 
that the point of DVCS?
kbsingh <ircs://freenode/kbsingh,isnick> 	gwd: for the sake of 
convenience, I'd say maybe we just trial the model of having everything 
under /CentOS/ and if or when we run into a problem, we can try to 
change things around
gwd <ircs://freenode/gwd,isnick> 	That's certainly a lot easier to begin 
kbsingh <ircs://freenode/kbsingh,isnick> 	ok
lars_kurth 	ok.Cool: I made a note
kbsingh <ircs://freenode/kbsingh,isnick> 	lets take that away then as a 
gwd <ircs://freenode/gwd,isnick> 	kbsingh: So you're going to clone all 
the repos into git.centos.org and github.com/CentOS/ ?
kbsingh <ircs://freenode/kbsingh,isnick> 	I've replied to the thread as 
lars_kurth 	Added as new action. Gwd may need to tidy up if I misunderstood
kbsingh <ircs://freenode/kbsingh,isnick> 	gwd: yeah, I can go ahead and 
do that as well - not online right now, but it can be done today
lars_kurth 	IS: KaranbirSingh to put together list of repository names 
in Xen4CentOS such that we can use it as a baseline - still open?
kbsingh <ircs://freenode/kbsingh,isnick> 	yes
kbsingh <ircs://freenode/kbsingh,isnick> 	that should get resolved with 
the move
lars_kurth 	Alright. Move to Community?
lars_kurth 	My list policy item is still open
gwd <ircs://freenode/gwd,isnick> 	What was the list policy question? I 
lars_kurth 	And we were discussing whether kbsingh wanted to attend the 
Hackathon. I will need to know pretty soon, as we are running out of space
lars_kurth 	gwd: just send a reminder to people that posting to the list 
while not subscribed = mail discarded
lars_kurth 	Do we want to keep this, or change it?
kbsingh <ircs://freenode/kbsingh,isnick> 	I do want to come to the 
gwd <ircs://freenode/gwd,isnick> 	discard> got it.
kbsingh <ircs://freenode/kbsingh,isnick> 	i believe there is some 
libvirt people as well ?
lars_kurth 	OK. In that case, I will reserve a space and add you to the 
lars_kurth 	Yes. Daniel Berrage
lars_kurth 	As well as some other Xen folks working on libvirt
gwd <ircs://freenode/gwd,isnick> 	jonludlam: Do you know who from the 
XenServer team is coming?
lars_kurth 	Let me check
jonludlam <ircs://freenode/jonludlam,isnick> 	dave scott
jonludlam <ircs://freenode/jonludlam,isnick> 	me
jonludlam <ircs://freenode/jonludlam,isnick> 	not sure about others
jonludlam <ircs://freenode/jonludlam,isnick> 	euanh, do you know?
euanh <ircs://freenode/euanh,isnick> 	I'm hoping to come
gwd <ircs://freenode/gwd,isnick> 	jonludlam: For this meeting, knowing 
that you & dave are coming is sufficient I think.
lars_kurth 	jonludlam: you are signed up
euanh <ircs://freenode/euanh,isnick> 	don't know about others
jonludlam <ircs://freenode/jonludlam,isnick> 	David Vrabel and Andrew 
Cooper on that list
gwd <ircs://freenode/gwd,isnick> 	lars_kurth: You have an outstanding 
item to e-mail the -virt mailing list. Are you planning on doing that? 
Does it make sense to do so if there are only a handful of places left?
lars_kurth 	kbsingh: OK, I will add a few more people as provisional to 
the list. I only have 40 spaces and all of the remaining 8 are waiting 
for travel approval, visas, etc. (including kbsingh in the
lars_kurth 	kbsingh: will send instructions to sign you up fully
kbsingh <ircs://freenode/kbsingh,isnick> 	there was also some word from 
ovirt guys
kbsingh <ircs://freenode/kbsingh,isnick> 	i dont know if they have 
someone local - but they dont have xen support
lars_kurth 	kbsingh: I need to know ASAP who that would be, if they want 
to get a space
kbsingh <ircs://freenode/kbsingh,isnick> 	ok, i can ping around
lars_kurth 	kbsingh: great
pasik <ircs://freenode/pasik,isnick> 	iirc ovirt had some sort of Xen 
support in the beginning
pasik <ircs://freenode/pasik,isnick> 	and then later they switched to 
"kvm only"
gwd <ircs://freenode/gwd,isnick> 	Hopefully with the improved libvirt 
support, getting xen support back in should be straightforward.
lars_kurth 	pasik: I was copied on a thread which says that integrating 
ovirt with xen+libvirt may be non-trivial as ovirt makes assumptions 
underneath libvirt
pasik <ircs://freenode/pasik,isnick> 	lars_kurth: yep
gwd <ircs://freenode/gwd,isnick> 	Shall we put that as another agenda 
item and finish going through the actions?
lars_kurth 	there are no quick fixes. I would say let's get libvirt 
support better first and then look at next steps
pasik <ircs://freenode/pasik,isnick> 	lars_kurth: agreed
lars_kurth 	gwd: How about adding it to longer term roadmap goals
gwd <ircs://freenode/gwd,isnick> 	lars_kurth: We can certainly have a 
wishlist -- the question is who's going to do the work.
lars_kurth 	gwd: I will add an action on you to create a roadmap wiki 
page. Is that OK?
gwd <ircs://freenode/gwd,isnick> 	lars_kurth: Ack.
lars_kurth 	gwd: good question. I think wishlist = looking for a volunteer
lars_kurth 	OK. The last set of open actions was Publicty
lars_kurth 	The state of play was that we got the centos board feedback, 
made fixes and reported back to Karsten
lars_kurth 	Karsten still has to ACK
lars_kurth 	I asked for Advisory Board approval on the assumption that 
he would do so
lars_kurth 	So the blocking issue is for the centos board to ACK
lars_kurth 	kbsingh: can you take this on or chase Karsten?
kbsingh <ircs://freenode/kbsingh,isnick> 	lars_kurth: i can ping him
lars_kurth 	thanks. Tracked everything
lars_kurth 	gwd: over to you
pasik <ircs://freenode/pasik,isnick> 	28 minutes until kbsingh needs to go
lars_kurth 	as an aside: how do I get the IRC logs for this channel?
lars_kurth 	gwd: I think we are all looking at 
and responses
gwd <ircs://freenode/gwd,isnick> 	Roadmap> I sent out a mail with a 
basic discussion of what we talked about two weeks ago; I don't think 
there were any additions or objections
lars_kurth 	Do we have any disagreements / open questions in this thread?
gwd <ircs://freenode/gwd,isnick> 	So I'll make a concrete to-do list and 
post it on a wiki page.
kbsingh <ircs://freenode/kbsingh,isnick> 	cool
gwd <ircs://freenode/gwd,isnick> 	I think one thing kbsingh suggested is 
that we want to have most of the basic stuff sorted out before RHEL 7 
comes out in... what, June / July?
jonludlam <ircs://freenode/jonludlam,isnick> 	Not sure if this is the 
right time to bring this up, but I was wondering about bumping the 
version of ocaml used when building xen
pasik <ircs://freenode/pasik,isnick> 	I think the current xen4.2 rpms 
are built against ocaml3
jonludlam <ircs://freenode/jonludlam,isnick> 	yep
pasik <ircs://freenode/pasik,isnick> 	and there was/is the dev repo 
against ocaml4 aswell
jonludlam <ircs://freenode/jonludlam,isnick> 	I think at some point in 
xen4centos's history, there was ocaml4 in there
pasik <ircs://freenode/pasik,isnick> 	yep
gwd <ircs://freenode/gwd,isnick> 	What happened with that? I don't know 
any of the histyr
pasik <ircs://freenode/pasik,isnick> 	so first we need to get the xen 
4.4 rpms built, probably against ocaml4
pasik <ircs://freenode/pasik,isnick> 	gwd: what happened is
hughesjr <ircs://freenode/hughesjr,isnick> 	this issue is it breaks 
everything else ocaml in the distro
jonludlam <ircs://freenode/jonludlam,isnick> 	yes
pasik <ircs://freenode/pasik,isnick> 	gwd: we just decided to go with 
the "distro stock ocaml3" because xapi stuff wasn't done yet
jonludlam <ircs://freenode/jonludlam,isnick> 	ocaml is incredibly picky 
about versions
gwd <ircs://freenode/gwd,isnick> 	Not used to being enterprise yet, I 
take it...
hughesjr <ircs://freenode/hughesjr,isnick> 	that means, we have to take 
on also fixing other distro things
hughesjr <ircs://freenode/hughesjr,isnick> 	that are ocaml
pasik <ircs://freenode/pasik,isnick> 	so do we want to first build xen 
4.4 again ocaml3 ?
jonludlam <ircs://freenode/jonludlam,isnick> 	right, unless there's a 
way for things to co-exist
pasik <ircs://freenode/pasik,isnick> 	+st
hughesjr <ircs://freenode/hughesjr,isnick> 	jonludlam: I suppose we can 
do an SCL for xen stuff
gwd <ircs://freenode/gwd,isnick> 	...and there's no way to have both 
versions somehow, and have each package use the library it needs?
jonludlam <ircs://freenode/jonludlam,isnick> 	recent version of ocaml 
are much happier about coexisting with other versions
hughesjr <ircs://freenode/hughesjr,isnick> 	gwd: if we do ocaml4 as an 
SCL that would work .. now if we can is another issue
jonludlam <ircs://freenode/jonludlam,isnick> 	hughesjr, would the SCL 
_contain_ xen then?
gwd <ircs://freenode/gwd,isnick> 	What does SCL stand for?
hughesjr <ircs://freenode/hughesjr,isnick> 	software collections
jonludlam <ircs://freenode/jonludlam,isnick> 	== coexistence of 
different versions of things
DV <ircs://freenode/DV,isnick> 	missed the libvirt/xen discussion earlier
gwd <ircs://freenode/gwd,isnick> 	Software CoLlection. Nice.
pasik <ircs://freenode/pasik,isnick> 	xen 4.4.0 src.rpm (for fedora 21) 

gwd <ircs://freenode/gwd,isnick> 	pasik: kbsingh showed me how the basic 
CentOS build system works, so I'm going to try doing the 4.4 update once 
the repos are sorted out.
lars_kurth 	DV: I don't think we had a specific discussion before
gwd <ircs://freenode/gwd,isnick> 	(Maybe after doing a more minor update 
as a test first.)
DV <ircs://freenode/DV,isnick> 	lars_kurth: just a few excahnge on IRC ^^^
pasik <ircs://freenode/pasik,isnick> 	gwd: that sounds good
gwd <ircs://freenode/gwd,isnick> 	OK, so can we update to 4.4, then 
update libvirt, and look into doing ocaml for Xen as an SCL?
hughesjr <ircs://freenode/hughesjr,isnick> 	gwd: that sounds like a good 
lars_kurth 	gwd: I guess the question is which libvirt version
jonludlam <ircs://freenode/jonludlam,isnick> 	How would an SCL work if 
xen depends upon it?
gwd <ircs://freenode/gwd,isnick> 	Are there any other package updates we 
need to do?
pasik <ircs://freenode/pasik,isnick> 	so the first iteration of xen 4.4 
rpms would be built against ocaml3, so there's an upgrade path from xen 
4.2 rpms ?
gwd <ircs://freenode/gwd,isnick> 	lars_kurth: On the list we decided 
1.2.3, the same as Ubuntu 14.04. (Or maybe it was 1.2.2 -- whichever one 
Ubuntu is using).
DV <ircs://freenode/DV,isnick> 	lars_kurth: what is in Fedora 20 get 
backports, but it's a bit 'old' already
gwd <ircs://freenode/gwd,isnick> 	DV: We seem to be talking about 
libvirt now -- did you have a comment / question / concern?
DV <ircs://freenode/DV,isnick> 	gwd
hughesjr <ircs://freenode/hughesjr,isnick> 	lars_kurth: I think whatever 
version of libvirt is in ubuntu 14.04 LTS is a good starting point 
(seriously :D)
gwd <ircs://freenode/gwd,isnick> 	libvirt 1.2.2 it was, I think.
DV <ircs://freenode/DV,isnick> 	gwd: mostly watching, and seeing if 
there is pit to avoid
lars_kurth 	We could agree on this for now and decide to upgrade later 
(after the Hackathon discussion)
gwd <ircs://freenode/gwd,isnick> 	DV: Well we're planning on updating to 
libvirt 1.2.2, and then maybe backporting important functionality (such 
as live migration).
pasik <ircs://freenode/pasik,isnick> 	too bad el7 looks to have libvirt 
DV <ircs://freenode/DV,isnick> 	notes other SIGs may want libvirt 
updates without becoming over zealous might be worth checking around to 
minimize builds
gwd <ircs://freenode/gwd,isnick> 	DV: Noted. Know of any that we should 
coordinate with?
DV <ircs://freenode/DV,isnick> 	pasik: usually in RHEL there is a lot of 
backports, so base version not always a good indicator
lars_kurth 	DV, kbsingh: do you have any visibility to what other SIG's 
need? If not, we should maybe poll on the centos-devel list
kbsingh <ircs://freenode/kbsingh,isnick> 	lars_kurth: yes, and no
kbsingh <ircs://freenode/kbsingh,isnick> 	i think we should deliver 
something, anything, just ship it
gwd <ircs://freenode/gwd,isnick> 	I think going forward, all changes / 
pull requests will be posted to the centos-virt list, so any specific 
change can be objected to when it actually gets submitted.
kbsingh <ircs://freenode/kbsingh,isnick> 	that gives people a target to 
point at
DV <ircs://freenode/DV,isnick> 	kb
kbsingh <ircs://freenode/kbsingh,isnick> 	otherwise we might get into 
masive wish lists
DV <ircs://freenode/DV,isnick> 	kbsingh, if other sigs are not more 
advanced, ACk
gwd <ircs://freenode/gwd,isnick> 	kbsingh: That sounds like a plan.
lars_kurth 	kbsingh: works for me
pasik <ircs://freenode/pasik,isnick> 	DV: yep
kbsingh <ircs://freenode/kbsingh,isnick> 	yeah, i thin kthe virtsig is 
perhaps the best place at the moment
gwd <ircs://freenode/gwd,isnick> 	If kbsingh / hughesjr have their 
fingers in other sigs, they can bring us in when we need to start 
coordinating about something.
lars_kurth 	Works for me. So we agreed to start with 1.2.2?
gwd <ircs://freenode/gwd,isnick> 	That's what we talked about on the 
-virt list, and nobody has objected.
pasik <ircs://freenode/pasik,isnick> 	let's do what ubuntu 14.04 lts 
has; so libvirt 1.2.2
lars_kurth 	Just confirming for the minutes. Agreed then.
kbsingh <ircs://freenode/kbsingh,isnick> 	1.2.2 works for me, if - (1) 
we have qemu rbd supported for both ceph and gluster ( libfgfacl )
DV <ircs://freenode/DV,isnick> 	there have been a lot of libxl updates 
in 1.2.3, but you know better what you need
pasik <ircs://freenode/pasik,isnick> 	from earlier.. did we agree to 
build the first xen 4.4 rpms against ocaml3, so the current users of el6 
xen 4.2 rpms can upgrade smoothly ?
kbsingh <ircs://freenode/kbsingh,isnick> 	pasik: if we didnt, then we 
kbsingh <ircs://freenode/kbsingh,isnick> 	hughesjr: ^ ? ocaml3 ?
pasik <ircs://freenode/pasik,isnick> 	DV: those libxl updates need to be 
jonludlam <ircs://freenode/jonludlam,isnick> 	pasik, does the ocaml 
version have much bearing on the upgrade?
gwd <ircs://freenode/gwd,isnick> 	Should we move the really technical 
discussion to the mailing list?
lalatenduM <ircs://freenode/lalatenduM,isnick> 	kbsingh, I think libvirt 
1.2.3 has few imp bug fixes for gluster
DV <ircs://freenode/DV,isnick> 	pasik: and lot of code churn in 1.2.3, 
this may not be that easy
lars_kurth 	How about, we m
pasik <ircs://freenode/pasik,isnick> 	hmm
kbsingh <ircs://freenode/kbsingh,isnick> 	lalatenduM: in that case, 
maybe we should consider 1.2.3
gwd <ircs://freenode/gwd,isnick> 	Well if backporting is too hard, we 
can think about moving forward instead.
lars_kurth 	we propose 1.2.2 on the list and ask for any backports 
necessary (pointing to patches)
kbsingh <ircs://freenode/kbsingh,isnick> 	how about we decide on a 1.2.x 
and take the conversation to the lists to decide
pasik <ircs://freenode/pasik,isnick> 	so then let's move to 1.2.4 directly?
hughesjr <ircs://freenode/hughesjr,isnick> 	well .. if we maintai the 
same major version as ubuntu, things will work better in both places and 
we can more easily reuse code
gwd <ircs://freenode/gwd,isnick> 	libvirt said they would do maintenance 
updates for any downstream actively using it; I think CentOS would be 
big enough to be worth their consideration.
kbsingh <ircs://freenode/kbsingh,isnick> 	given DV has an eye on 
libvirt, what do you think ?
DV <ircs://freenode/DV,isnick> 	Indent top-level labels by one space in 
... Use K&R style for curly braces in ... that kind of patches goes in 
the way of backports
hughesjr <ircs://freenode/hughesjr,isnick> 	we can do whatever you guys 
want ... but centos is not intended to be fedora
gwd <ircs://freenode/gwd,isnick> 	Going with 1.2.2 was just an attempt 
to reduce the burden on upstream.
DV <ircs://freenode/DV,isnick> 	but hard to tell a priori if it really 
will make it hard
DV <ircs://freenode/DV,isnick> 	<gwd> Well if backporting is too hard, 
we can think about moving forward instead. : that's reasonable
gwd <ircs://freenode/gwd,isnick> 	Well let's look at 1.2.2 and try a few 
backports and see how it works.
DV <ircs://freenode/DV,isnick> 	ack
lars_kurth 	Agreed. Will add an action on gwd
pasik <ircs://freenode/pasik,isnick> 	jonludlam: about ocaml version: 
like said the current xen 4.2 rpms are built against ocaml3, and if xen 
4.4 rpms added ocaml4 as a requirement, then all the distro ocaml stuff 
would break in the xen 4.2 -> xen 4.4 upgrade.. I don't think we want to 
do that.
pasik <ircs://freenode/pasik,isnick> 	jonludlam: so I'd say let's first 
build xen 4.4 against ocaml3; and then let's figure out the SCL stuff so 
we can properly do xen 4.4 with ocaml4
jonludlam <ircs://freenode/jonludlam,isnick> 	pasik, they shouldn't be 
run-time requirements
DV <ircs://freenode/DV,isnick> 	used to assemble RHEL libvirt builds for 
too long, some reflexes persists
gwd <ircs://freenode/gwd,isnick> 	One thing we might want to talk about 
(maybe on the -devel list) is changing the "binary blob" thing in the 
CentOS build system to make it earier to collaborate with people who 
don't have access to the "blob repo" (sorry I don't know the proper 
terms for these things)
pasik <ircs://freenode/pasik,isnick> 	gwd: lookasides or something
gwd <ircs://freenode/gwd,isnick> 	DV: I'd much rather learn the easy 
way, from your experience, than the hard way, from my own.
jonludlam <ircs://freenode/jonludlam,isnick> 	pasik, btw, no problem 
starting with ocaml3 with a view to seeing how ocaml4 might turn out
pasik <ircs://freenode/pasik,isnick> 	jonludlam: ok
lars_kurth 	Anything else we need to discuss?
DV <ircs://freenode/DV,isnick> 	gwd: TBH the libvirt team use to rebase 
frequently, 6.1, 6.2, 6.3 ... because code changes fast and want to 
minimize backport loads
kbsingh <ircs://freenode/kbsingh,isnick> 	gwd: ok, if you start that 
off, we can hash it out ( the lookaside thing )
gwd <ircs://freenode/gwd,isnick> 	Most of the blobs in Xen4Centos seem 
to be upstream tarballs. One option would be to have a URL of the 
upstream, with a local cache to make builds reliable.
lars_kurth 	We have 2 minutes: I would propose to raise loose ends after 
the meeting on the list
kbsingh <ircs://freenode/kbsingh,isnick> 	gwd: i guess people can still 
checkout and do local things, and the get_sources.sh could be injected 
into the git repo itself
DV <ircs://freenode/DV,isnick> 	gwd: that said being 0.0.2 behind means 
only 2 months, should be okay
pasik <ircs://freenode/pasik,isnick> 	gwd: I was able to do custom local 
rebuilds of centos src.rpms; I used the get_sources.sh
kbsingh <ircs://freenode/kbsingh,isnick> 	i am guessing there isnt a LTS 
sort of version - so we'd need a plan to keep things patched without 
needing a system update every 2 months
gwd <ircs://freenode/gwd,isnick> 	pasik: The hard part would be pull 
kbsingh <ircs://freenode/kbsingh,isnick> 	do we have any other major 
points on the agenda
pasik <ircs://freenode/pasik,isnick> 	gwd: true
kbsingh <ircs://freenode/kbsingh,isnick> 	gwd: pasik: pull requests on 
binary data will always be against ( or well, used to be against ) a new 
kbsingh <ircs://freenode/kbsingh,isnick> 	so we just run the import
pasik <ircs://freenode/pasik,isnick> 	lars_kurth: I think we should 
write something about ocaml version
gwd <ircs://freenode/gwd,isnick> 	I don't think so -- I'll kick off a 
discussion on -virt about packages to update
gwd <ircs://freenode/gwd,isnick> 	And make a roadmap wiki
kbsingh <ircs://freenode/kbsingh,isnick> 	but we can also have remote 
urls in the .package.metadata file - and people can request merges 
against that
jonludlam <ircs://freenode/jonludlam,isnick> 	I believe there's been 
some discussion before about the structure of the xen rpms - is that 
minuted anywhere?
jcpunk <ircs://freenode/jcpunk,isnick> 	^^+1
DV <ircs://freenode/DV,isnick> 	gwd: my suggestions, use git, cherry 
pick from upstream into a set of commit bringing what you want on top of 
your branch, use that as you patch list
lars_kurth 	pasik, jonludlam: no - can I get you to make a proposal on 
the list
kbsingh <ircs://freenode/kbsingh,isnick> 	jcpunk: +1 to what
jcpunk <ircs://freenode/jcpunk,isnick> 	looking for documented structure
jcpunk <ircs://freenode/jcpunk,isnick> 	of rpms
DV <ircs://freenode/DV,isnick> 	gwd: see the libvirt rpms from Fedora or 
RHEL they should be largely explicit
kbsingh <ircs://freenode/kbsingh,isnick> 	this was on the virt list ages 
ago. we essentially went with the carry-in-spec for the leaf nodes 
needed at build time.
gwd <ircs://freenode/gwd,isnick> 	DV: That seems reasonable.
jcpunk <ircs://freenode/jcpunk,isnick> 	kbsingh: ah, got it
kbsingh <ircs://freenode/kbsingh,isnick> 	i suspect jonludlam is talking 
about the entire wider scope
pasik <ircs://freenode/pasik,isnick> 	lars_kurth: yeah sure, jonludlam 
is probably the expert with ocaml stuff
lars_kurth 	OK: will add action
jonludlam <ircs://freenode/jonludlam,isnick> 	right, interested in 
splitting dom0 rpms from domU, etc
kbsingh <ircs://freenode/kbsingh,isnick> 	jonludlam: i dont think we've 
had that conversation at this point. but we should
jonludlam <ircs://freenode/jonludlam,isnick> 	ok, perhaps next meeting 
kbsingh <ircs://freenode/kbsingh,isnick> 	if we dont have any other 
items, i just want to bring one in - and this is past the scheduled 
hour, but worth talking about
lars_kurth 	Maybe next time or on list?
jonludlam <ircs://freenode/jonludlam,isnick> 	gotta run to another 
meeting now
gwd <ircs://freenode/gwd,isnick> 	DV: I'm fairly new to RPM building: I 
take it there's a step where you explicitly export base..tip as a series 
of patches?
gwd <ircs://freenode/gwd,isnick> 	kbsingh: I've got time.
kbsingh <ircs://freenode/kbsingh,isnick> 	we have a bit of a problem 
with el7rc kernel not doing pv out of the blocks
gwd <ircs://freenode/gwd,isnick> 	That's not as a guest, right?
pasik <ircs://freenode/pasik,isnick> 	kbsingh: only redhat kernel team 
can do something about that..
kbsingh <ircs://freenode/kbsingh,isnick> 	when i say a bit of a problem 
- i mean this is a major train crash kind of problem, given how much of 
hosting and cloud is pv only
pasik <ircs://freenode/pasik,isnick> 	gwd: redhat disabled xen pv 
support for el7 kernel
DV <ircs://freenode/DV,isnick> 	gwd: yes you can ask git to give them a 
name based on commit text, and in the rpm spec you list them in order
pasik <ircs://freenode/pasik,isnick> 	gwd: (xen hvm is still supported)
kbsingh <ircs://freenode/kbsingh,isnick> 	pasik: right, i dont care 
about the rhel7 state of play, but we might need to do something in the 
centos ecosystem and own it locally
pasik <ircs://freenode/pasik,isnick> 	kbsingh: yep, definitely we should 
"fix" that for centos7
kbsingh <ircs://freenode/kbsingh,isnick> 	gwd: it is.. as a guest, cant 
run rhel7 as a pv guest. only hvm-pv and hvm ( ofcourse )
kbsingh <ircs://freenode/kbsingh,isnick> 	I will get the git repos in 
place and the acl's setup this week for the xen stuff to happen
gwd <ircs://freenode/gwd,isnick> 	kbsingh: Oh, that's right. But does it 
have PVHVM support?
kbsingh <ircs://freenode/kbsingh,isnick> 	and we can maybe target a 4.4 
build as a testing/qa process.
kbsingh <ircs://freenode/kbsingh,isnick> 	gwd: yes. pvhvm works
gwd <ircs://freenode/gwd,isnick> 	kbsingh: So are you thinking of having 
a CentOS guest kernel that supports PV?
pasik <ircs://freenode/pasik,isnick> 	yep
pasik <ircs://freenode/pasik,isnick> 	so probably just a small .config 
hughesjr <ircs://freenode/hughesjr,isnick> 	gwd: well, we will have a 
kernel that supports dom0 too at some point
DV <ircs://freenode/DV,isnick> 	gwd: git log --pretty=%f -1 your-commit 
and use that as a base for the filename of the associated patch
kbsingh <ircs://freenode/kbsingh,isnick> 	gwd: i dont know - dont want 
to predecide and havent really spent any time thinking this though - but 
i do know that we need to ( spend the time, think it through, do 
something )
kbsingh <ircs://freenode/kbsingh,isnick> 	o, lars_kurth are we calling 
this meting closed ? ( i am already on the phone waiting for the next 
one to open )
pasik <ircs://freenode/pasik,isnick> 	kbsingh: yes, i think we should 
have some kernel variant with "fixed" .config
gwd <ircs://freenode/gwd,isnick> 	Would the PV kernel be basically the 
same as the Xen4CentOS dom0? Or a stripped-down version? Or were you 
thinking of taking the upstream RH kernel and re-enabling PV (meaning 
another separate kernel branch to maintain)?
lars_kurth 	yes: let's call it closed
pasik <ircs://freenode/pasik,isnick> 	gwd: i think it should 
upstream-el7-kernel with just the .config tweak
hughesjr <ircs://freenode/hughesjr,isnick> 	gwd: we can do more than one 
if we want
hughesjr <ircs://freenode/hughesjr,isnick> 	(or need to)
pasik <ircs://freenode/pasik,isnick> 	gwd: and any xen pv specific 
patches, if there's a need for those ever
pasik <ircs://freenode/pasik,isnick> 	gwd: so maintenance-wise it would 
be quite low effort.. hopefully
gwd <ircs://freenode/gwd,isnick> 	pasik: Well, one would hope...
gwd <ircs://freenode/gwd,isnick> 	And would that be a change to the main 
CentOS kernel? Or a separate package that's included for cloud targets?
kbsingh <ircs://freenode/kbsingh,isnick> 	change to main kernel would 
need quite a major reason, and a lot of shouting and requests - I 
suspect we dont/wont get that initially.
kbsingh <ircs://freenode/kbsingh,isnick> 	we could carry it on the 
install media though... so its available to use right off the bat, post 
install ( specially if its the same version as the install / main kernel )
gwd <ircs://freenode/gwd,isnick> 	That sounds pretty do-able.
pasik <ircs://freenode/pasik,isnick> 	yep
gwd <ircs://freenode/gwd,isnick> 	OK -- lars_kurth, are you going to 
send out a meeting report?
lars_kurth 	gwd: pointing to the actions and appending this log for now