From: Collins Richey <crichey at gmail.com> > It's a little more than that. I find few people who consider RedHat to > be a Demon Evil or that they can't do anything right, but I can > understand the concern about some of their decisions which have made > life difficult for (granted) a few, and it's not really helpful to > demonize those who complain, as Bryan has done. In essence, RedHat is > a business entity, and they make their decisions for business reasons. No offense, but I tire of being the "focal point of example" when all I'm doing is explaining why Red Hat has done something. Especially when one thing that severely dominates the landscape are statements of "Fedora Core / Red Hat-only bugs" which are simply total fabrications. Why am I blamed for pointing out that they are not? Oh, that's right, it's not popular to explain something as not a Red Hat-instigated issue. I seem to remember that same issue in the Windows world as well, where people seem to want to assign blame to Microsoft for everything too. The problem is that when everyone just instantly blames Red Hat for everything, just like Microsoft, it drowns out all those who do have _legitimate_ and _technically_ "well thought out" issues that _could_ be of good consideration for Red Hat. It's hard to make these issues known among a screaming bunch of "bitchers." And that's what it is. Especially when people do not stop to recognize the root causes of the issue. It's not "picking a side" -- it's about stopping and understanding why. Because only when you understand why can you either A) see it changed and, if that is not a solution, B) accommodate it as best as you can. > True enough. My biggest problem, philosophically at least with RedHat, > is the now unified release: what's good for server users is what > Desktop users get. This goes back to the whole eWeek mis-quote of Michael Tiemann where the whole world said Red Hat was "getting out of the desktop market." In reality, I totally agree that it's really not of any interest to Red Hat to keep trying to _sell_ a _product_ that is geared towards all the endless uses of a consumer/custom desktop. It's _cheaper_ and more _effective_ for Red Hat to put people on developing and giving away a distro like Fedora Core. It was a basic admission that Red Hat Linux as a "product" was attempting to please way too many people, and was failing to do so. If you don't like what you see in RHEL/CentOS as standard, your best bet is to get involved with Fedora Core, and attempt to see things included and tested in it first. Just a Bugzilla request, sometimes it's that simple to get what you want -- as long as you're willing to wait out Red Hat's testing cycle. That's the problem, people want it now, and that just ain't gonna happen. ;-> > I'm still looking for the binary distro that has a really stable base but > offers functionality upgrades as they come along. Balance but not > bleeding edge is the name of the game. You're going to be waiting forever. Even if you can somehow have the absolutely most stable package versions from all the various projects, there is no guarantee they will work together well. Only integration testing of all packages as a whole unit do that -- and it's not something that you can do without time and testing. Which is where 2-2-2, 6-6-6 come in better than anything else. > Yes, I know about Gentoo. I've run it almost since inception, and it's > ideal in many respects. Gentoo is a "ports" distro which has _many_advantages_. Unfortunately, maintaining "configuration management" on a ports distro is a bit more involved. I.e., you have basically moved 100% of regression testing onto yourself. ;-> > I've enjoyed this discussion and learned a lot about RedHat that I > didn't know. I thank you for your rational comments. Unlike Bryan, I > think you realize that not everyone who disagrees with RedHat on a > given topic is an ignoramus. Thank you for demonizing me so. The only time I said someone was "ignorant" is when they absolutely refused to stop and understand why Red Hat develops RHEL the way they do, and want to call things "Fedora Core / RHEL-only bugs." In other words, blindly assign blame to Red Hat all-the-time, for everything. -- Bryan J. Smith mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org