[CentOS] yum vs up2date

John Summerfied debian at herakles.homelinux.org
Thu Sep 7 02:21:57 UTC 2006

Johnny Hughes wrote:

> We need a plugin for that ... can someone figure out a plugin that will
> take the rpm and figure out the SRPM, and download it.  We would need to
> also include where the downloaded SRPMS go (maybe a location defined in
> the plugin.conf file).

If you have the actual rpm, finding the source is trivial. If not, you 
can't unless the metadata has the info.
>>>Up2date also can not use the mirrorlist option which provides 10 GeoIP
>>>based mirrors that failover based on (if you install the fastestmirror
>>>plugin) speed.
>>I really don't like the mirror list I've seen in Fedora Core. It pulls 
>>stuff from all over, Europe, Middle East - mostly, it seems, about as 
>>far away from Western Australia as possible.
> CentOS shared our mirrorlist program with the Fedora Developers.  Fedora
> is reworking (or just reworked) their mirrorlist select program to
> include GeoIP data.  Their new program is not DIRECTLY based on ours
> (and I think theirs is python ... ours is perl), however our design and
> concept did influence it.
> That is why I stressed GeoIP and the fastestmirror plugin.  You will get

I don't see how "fastest mirror" can be evaluated usefully. If you have 
a gigabit Internet connexion, and I have 1500 ADSL or (worse) 256 ADSL 
or (worse again) a modem (Telstra doesn't do ADSL to my house), I don't 
see how software could determine that I should use poledra.it.net.au 
(should it be one of your mirrors) which it really should; it's local, 
it's on WAIX (as is my IAP), even if it's slower.

> close mirrors and they will be timed so you get the one that responds
> the fastest to your individual computer the day that you run it.

If I use scp to copy a file across my LAN, the speed varies for no 
reason I can see, and that has no more than four switches and a router 
in the path, none very busy.

I'm sceptical that a 30-second test means anything all in the context of 
downloading a DVD.

> To see the Australia mirrors, do this:
> http://mirrorlist.centos.org/?release=4&arch=i386&cc=au&repo=updates


I'm in Perth. Here's what I see:

I'm in Perth.
Pacific's in Melbourne.
Monash is Melbourne, I used to live nearish it.
eznetsols I've not heard of so it's likely over east. No, I checked, 
it's Singapore.
Ditto Eversnet.

As for those centos{x} names, qui sais? If you could agree on names that 
mean something to users, or use cnames

Just for the hell of it, I'm testing some:
I have Netherlands, Clifton Park NY, Washington DC, and some others that 
timed out or are obviously US.

Not one that's obviously good.

A bit of geography for you: Perth is the most isolated major city in the 
world, the nearest other major city is Adelaide, and that's hours by 
air, days by road or rail. I think the next closest cities are in 
Singaport, Malaysia and Indonesia. Certainly, Jakarta is closer than 
Melbourne or Sydney.

Maps don't convey some information well; we have Poms arrive in 
Australia who didn't comprehend our distances until they arrive. Western 
Australia is similar in size to Europe: a same-scale map of WA overlaid 
on Europe takes in London and Moscow.

A mirror not in Perth isn't local. So far as our wallets go, none of 
those mirrors is good.

And, planetmirror which I do use, though it's in Brisbane (it's my 
fallback when what I want's not local) does have Centos and is not listed.

> You do not have to specify cc= as it will be based on the IP Address of
> the connecting computer, but if you do specify it, it will override the
> default detection.
>>I prefer the Debian approach; I choose a mirror. In Australia, IAPs 
>>commonly have a peering arrangement; content from within the peer 
>>network isn't charge against download limits. While (AFAIK) all members 
>>of WAIX (the local peer network) are in WA, not all IAPs in WA are members.
> Well ... what if that mirror is not updated yet.  The other advantage of
> the mirrorlist system is that only UPDATED mirrors are shown.  If a
> mirror does not get updates, it will not show up on the list.  When it
> does not have the same content as master, it is removed and mirrors are
> checked at least once an hour.

It's a while since I checked ADSL plans here, but it used to be the case 
that if one overran one's download limit, there was a $60-$120 surcharge 
per gigabyte. Alternatively, one's speed is throttled from 1500 (or more 
with ADSL2) to 64K. Or less.

I'd rather a less current mirror.

>>>Up2date does not have protectbase or priorities capability.
> You didn't mention these ... and they allow you to add 3rd party repos
> and still protect your base so you don't update items in core ... but
> you can update other stuff.

It's not a feature that seems important to _me_. More likely, I'll want 
the source.

>>As I mentioned elsewhere, installed 4.3 just before 4.4 came out. I'd 
>>uch rather have downloaded the packages overnight (triggered by cron) 
>>than type the commands in through my modem line.
> Run yum via cron ... it can be turned on to do just that via this
> command:
> chkconfig yum on

The best I can figure is that downloads and applies updates. That's not 
what I want; the idea of surrendering control of my system to you 
bothers me.

It looks to me that that upgrade procedure could have produced the 
recent yum/sqllite problem.

I want to know what updates are to be applied, and I want them ready to 
apply. In Debian, I have this with apt-get, which downloads from a 
mirror I chose when I installed it, lists the updated available, and its 
run at a time of my choosing.

If I choose, I can exclude and update, and because I see the list before 
it happens, I know what's changed and when.

Unless I have a "senior moment," but that's another matter.

>>GUIs aren't very good through modems.
> Lastly ... in RHEL5Beta1 ... there is no up2date ... there is yum-2.9.x.

I guess the battle's over then; I'm downloading that atm (at work), so 
I'll see what Centos5 might have.



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