On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 8:42 AM, Dennis Jacobfeuerborn <dennisml at conversis.de> wrote: > Also the switch from messy bash scripts to a declarative > configuration makes things easier once you get used to the syntax. Sorry, but I'd recommend that anyone who thinks shell syntax is 'messy' just stay away from unix-like systems instead of destroying the best parts of them. There is a huge advantage of consistent behavior whether some command is executed interactively on the command line or started automatically by some other means. > Then there is the fact that services are actually monitored and can be > restarted automatically if they fail/crash and they run in a sane > environment where stdout is redirected into the journal so that all > output is caught which can be useful for debugging. What part of i/o redirection does the shell not handle well for you? > Its certainly a change one needs to get used to but as mentioned above I > don't think its a bad change and you don't have to jump to it > immediately if you don't want to. 'Immediately' has different meanings to different people. I'd rather see such things discussed in terms of cost of re-implementations. How much is this going to cost a typical company _just_ to keep their existing programs working the same way over the next decade (which is a relatively short time in terms of business-process changes)? Even if the changes themselves are minor, you have to cover the cost of paying some number of people for that 'get used to the syntax' step. Personally I think Red Hat did everyone a disservice by splitting the development side off to fedora and divorcing it from the enterprise users that like the consistency. -- Les Mikesell lesmikesell at gmail.com