[CentOS] Cemtos 7 : Systemd alternatives ?

[Robert Moskowitz]

On 07/08/2014 12:05 PM, Andrew Wyatt wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 9:49 AM, Russell Miller <duskglow at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Jul 8, 2014, at 5:09 AM, Dennis Jacobfeuerborn <dennisml at conversis.de>
>> wrote:
>>> That presumes that your conservative attitude is the majority opinion
>>> though. Systemd is one of the features that I have been looking forward
>>> to in CentOS 7 because of the new capabilities it provides so while this
>>> will surely drive some people away it will actually attract others and
>>> if you think that this will lead to some sort of great exodus then I
>>> think you are mistaken. Not everybody is this uncomfortable with change.
>>>
>> For the record, I'm not uncomfortable with change.  I'm uncomfortable with
>> stupid,
>> poorly thought out, monolithic change that ignores half a century of the
>> UNIX philosophy.
>> And creating a daemon that tries to handle everything but the kitchen sink
>> and implementing
>> it in such a way as to make it nearly incomprehensible to me certainly
>> qualifies
>> as that type of change.
>>
>> Sysvinit may not be perfect, but it's UNIX.  Systemd is...  a lot of
>> things, but more
>> of a windows-like solution than I"m comfortable with.  It's just dumb.
>>   Surely there could
>> have been a better way of accomplishing their goals without creating the
>> equivalent of
>> Cartman's Trapper Keeper.
>>
>> And yea, I'm kind of an old white guy (is 38 old?)  The guy who called
>> that out as
>> a negative is not helping his cause with me.  This old white guy has been
>> doing Linux
>> administration when some people on this list were pulling the hair of
>> girls they liked
>> and eating bugs.
>>
>> (and if that was yesterday, I don't want to hear about it. :))
>>
>>
> This is an unfortunate problem in the community today, anyone who disagrees
> with status-quo is "just an antique", it's insulting to say the least.  It
> doesn't matter our experience, we're just "causing trouble" because we
> "don't want change" which is an excuse that isn't even remotely true.
>   Eventually when all these "old guys" leave, all that will be left are the
> inexperienced kids and that's when the real problems will begin to surface.
>   There are a few good reasons to adopt systemd, but the bad outweigh the
> good in my opinion.  Then there's the problem of giving children the keys
> to the kingdom (
> http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2014-May/019664.html)
> as they do run off the old guard so they can have their toys.

It is fun to attend a standards meeting (like IETF and IEEE 802) when 
some young guys and gals, along with their profs make a presentation on 
how things should REALLY be done.  Then that grey headed guy or gal 
gentlely leads the Q&A into a critical edge case that completely breaks 
the proposal.  At least in my area, we have the institutional memory of 
why we do things as we done. Sometimes things evolve where we CAN do it 
better now, or even have to do it better.  But us old dogs still have 
the where-with-all to keep it all straight.

But also we are demanding more of our systems.  HSMs make dealing with 
virtualization a must and this changes a lot of old assumptions.  
Remember what assume can spell.