> On Wed, 6 Jan 2021 at 11:17, Simon Matter <simon.matter at invoca.ch> wrote: > >> > On Wed, 6 Jan 2021 at 07:50, Simon Matter <simon.matter at invoca.ch> >> wrote: >> > >> >> > Am 06.01.21 um 03:01 schrieb Scott Robbins: >> >> >> On Tue, Jan 05, 2021 at 11:31:34PM +0000, Jamie Burchell wrote: >> >> >>> Off topic for sure, but it's a shame this has to be a manual >> process >> >> of >> >> >>> destroying and rebuilding every X years. Even Microsoft has gone >> the >> >> >>> Apple >> >> >>> way and just perpetually updates Windows 10 now. >> >> >> >> >> >> I'm not sure how it will go. Fedora now has a very good upgrade >> tool >> >> >> that >> >> >> has worked for me through a few versions. So, hopefully, RH, and >> >> CentOS >> >> >> will have one too, who knows, maybe in time to migrate to >> Stream-9. >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > Fedora's package set is quite "stable". You can expect that a >> package >> >> is >> >> > in the next release. This is not so valid for EL. Deprecated >> packages >> >> > (ImageMagick in EL7 but not in EL8) make such upgrade path >> difficult >> >> ... >> >> >> >> It's anyway hard to understand how an enterprise grade Linux can be >> >> shipped without things like ImageMagick or Tomcat. For quite some >> time >> >> now >> >> it gives me the impression that we're not the targeted audience >> anymore. >> >> >> >> >> > The issue is that 'Enterprise' is an overloaded term without the >> nuance >> it >> > needs. In the 'small' enterprise you have a lot of use of ImageMagick >> and >> > TomCat. In the large enterprise of 100,000+ servers.. it isn't. As >> more >> of >> > the large enterprises moved into RHEL, the amount of usage for a lot >> of >> > 'leaf' programs became rounding errors without enough usage to justify >> the >> > bug-fixing needed when compared to the load of >> bugfixing/enhancements/etc >> > in the 100k customers. >> >> Thanks for confirming that RHEL is the wrong OS for SME businesses these >> days. It's not really good for SME servers and not really good for SME >> clients. Something between Fedora and RHEL could be it but it doesn't >> exist. >> >> > I didn't say or mean that. My answer is that it is complicated and more > meant that the software you expect requires more than the industry in > general is willing to pay to keep going. 10-20 years ago they were and so > the software was able to be 'mainstream'. As less people use it, and less > people are willing to pay for its maintenance the harder it is to keep > 'running safely'. Tomcat and Imagemagick have had a LOT of severe security I'd like to correct myself, ImageMagick was not simply removed but replaced by GraphicsMagick. From what I read it should be a usable solution as it's a fork from IM. For the Tomcat thing, I don't agree. Tomcat is widely used and I think the security concerns are not the real reason to remove it. It more likely that RedHat simply likes to sell more JBoss EAP. It's their right to do so but it's a removal of important functionality of the base RHEL package. Regards, Simon