On 10/12/2020 12:39, Phelps, Matthew wrote: > > > On Thu, Dec 10, 2020 at 7:20 AM Josh Boyer <jwboyer at redhat.com > <mailto:jwboyer at redhat.com>> wrote: > > On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 11:40 AM Ljubomir Ljubojevic <centos at plnet.rs > <mailto:centos at plnet.rs>> wrote: > > > > On 12/9/20 4:25 PM, Brendan Conoboy wrote: > > > On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 7:16 AM Phil Perry <pperry at elrepo.org > <mailto:pperry at elrepo.org> > > > <mailto:pperry at elrepo.org <mailto:pperry at elrepo.org>>> wrote: > > > > > > On 09/12/2020 15:08, Brendan Conoboy wrote: > > > > On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 6:59 AM Ljubomir Ljubojevic > > > <centos at plnet.rs <mailto:centos at plnet.rs> > <mailto:centos at plnet.rs <mailto:centos at plnet.rs>> > > > > <mailto:centos at plnet.rs <mailto:centos at plnet.rs> > <mailto:centos at plnet.rs <mailto:centos at plnet.rs>>>> wrote: > > > > > > > > So when you remove binary compatibility, why would anyone > > > bother with > > > > CentOS/RHEL unless they want a job in a company that > pays for RHEL > > > > support? > > > > > > > > What sort of binaries are you concerned about being > incompatible? > > > > > > Any kernel device drivers, for a start. Kind of critical if > your > > > SAS/RAID device wont boot, or your network device doesn't > come up, or > > > your GUI doesn't start because your display drivers aren't > compatible > > > anymore. Just minor things like that maybe? > > > > > > > > > OK, so out-of-tree drivers. If those keep on working does that > make > > > CentOS Stream viable for your use? > > > > The problem we CentOS users have with "RHEL Stream" is "IF" it > works. I > > do not want to think about "IF". RHEL Stream is meant to constantly, > > daily get packages and patches that are not yet tested, to BE > tested on > > This is actually not the case. Today, our RHEL development model > requires package updates to undergo testing before they are included > in the distribution, even internally. CentOS Stream will continue > this trend as we upstream many of our RHEL CI workflows to Stream > itself. > > > users. From RHEL Stream FAQ: "CentOS Stream is a distribution that > > community members can use to take advantage of a stable ABI/API for > > development and testing," DEVELOPMENT AND TESTING. > > It would be disingenuous to say Stream won't have bugs. All software > development has bugs. However, the "development and testing" part > actually extends to the development and testing of the software *you* > are developing. Stream exists as a base for you to do your own > development and testing. > > > *WE* aren't doing development and testing! We're running systems that > are trying to get work done. The whole POINT of CentOS was a recompile > of the Open Source parts of RHEL. A stable *Enterprise* level operating > system. > > Do you people not understand that?? > Matthew, To be fair, this is the CentOS Devel list. Perhaps your comments would be better placed or more suited to the main CentOS mailing list, but this list exists specifically to discuss the development of CentOS. If you are not active in that, or do not want to participate, that's fine but stick to the users list which would be the correct list for you. Thanks > > > I do not have time to mess with "might work, might not" testing > distro, > > otherwise I would play on the sand with Fedora. RHEL clone is best > > available option and in return for me using code prepared for > RHEL I was > > telling anyone who would listen how CentOS is great, for me > better then > > Debian/Ubuntu or other distro's. CentOS Facebook group has more > members > > then Fedora FB group, partially due to me posting ton of resource > links > > and how-to's and helping anyone who asked for help even if I had > to look > > for answer my self. > > I do NOT have FAITH that Stream will be production ready, and I > do not > > have free time to experiment or check if it will work or not when > I run > > update, and that is only thing that matters. No amount of "do not > worry" > > will change my mind. As soon as it is crystal clear (I still > hope) that > > "CentOS Linux" is dead, I will stop advocating for CentOS, actually I > > will start advocating AGAINST CentOS and look for alternatives, > either > > other clones or Debian. > > > > I will not respond to any more e-mails or tweets about this > topic, there > > is nothing more to be said except R.I.P CentOS :-( > > I understand if you don't want to continue the conversation. I do > want to say that with CentOS Stream, we're committed to developing a > stable and world class project that literally produces RHEL. I hope > in the future if you decide to revisit your OS choice that you take a > moment and see what we're doing here. I think you might find that > we're working very hard to avoid the things you're concerned about, > because we *need* to avoid those same things in RHEL anyway. > > josh > _______________________________________________ > CentOS-devel mailing list > CentOS-devel at centos.org <mailto:CentOS-devel at centos.org> > https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel > <https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel> > > > > -- > > *Matt Phelps* > > *Information Technology Specialist, Systems Administrator* > > (Computation Facility, Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory) > > Center for Astrophysics | Harvard & Smithsonian > > > 60 Garden Street | MS 39 | Cambridge, MA 02138 > > email: mphelps at cfa.harvard.edu <mailto:mphelps at cfa.harvard.edu> > > > cfa.harvard.edu <http://cfa.harvard.edu/>| Facebook > <http://cfa.harvard.edu/facebook>| Twitter > <http://cfa.harvard.edu/twitter>| YouTube > <http://cfa.harvard.edu/youtube>| Newsletter > <http://cfa.harvard.edu/newsletter> > > > > _______________________________________________ > CentOS-devel mailing list > CentOS-devel at centos.org > https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel >