Hi,
As the $SUBJECT says, after the latest release of Centos 8, the Devel[1] repo is not populated.
I can see the packages for 8.4.2105[2]. Is this expected for this latest release?
--- Regards, Odilon
1 - http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/ 2 - https://vault.centos.org/8.4.2105/Devel/
On Wed, Nov 17, 2021, at 14:47, Odilon Junior wrote:
Hi,
As the $SUBJECT says, after the latest release of Centos 8, the Devel[1] repo is not populated.
I can see the packages for 8.4.2105[2]. Is this expected for this latest release?
Regards, Odilon
1 - http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/ 2 - https://vault.centos.org/8.4.2105/Devel/ _______________________________________________ CentOS-devel mailing list CentOS-devel@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
That is expected. Just a reminder CentOS Linux 8 goes End Of Life in December: https://www.centos.org/centos-linux-eol/ please plan accordingly.
If you need a package that was previously in the Devel repo to support your migration you may download from vault.centos.org or from the buildsystem: https://koji.mbox.centos.org
--Brian
On Wed, Nov 17, 2021 at 4:46 PM Brian Stinson brian@bstinson.com wrote:
On Wed, Nov 17, 2021, at 14:47, Odilon Junior wrote:
Hi,
As the $SUBJECT says, after the latest release of Centos 8, the Devel[1] repo is not populated.
I can see the packages for 8.4.2105[2]. Is this expected for this latest release?
Regards, Odilon
1 - http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/ 2 - https://vault.centos.org/8.4.2105/Devel/ _______________________________________________ CentOS-devel mailing list CentOS-devel@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
That is expected. Just a reminder CentOS Linux 8 goes End Of Life in December: https://www.centos.org/centos-linux-eol/ please plan accordingly.
I don't think anyone expected this. There was no reason to expect the individual channel to be shut off several months in advance of the EOL of the operating system. It's like moving the family to a new house only after the move announce that the dog is not coming with us.
This breaks working tools, like my tools that backport samba with full and stable Heimdal based Kerberos According to the Samba maintainers, the MIT kerberos used by the latest Fedora releases is not yet well enough integrated for production work, which is why I publish https://github.com/nkadel/samba4repo/ for Fedor and for RHEL releases. But they rely on 'quota-devel' for compilation, which is used by RHEL and CentOS for compiling their more limited versions of Samba but is arbitrarily hidden under tablecloth over in the 'Devel' channel.
If you need a package that was previously in the Devel repo to support your migration you may download from vault.centos.org or from the buildsystem: https://koji.mbox.centos.org
--Brian
This kind of arbitrary, unannounced and unwelcome change is part of why people are losing trust in Red Hat and in CentOS as a reliable rebuild of RHEL It's mirrored by the very peculiar and illogical split up of "ansible" to "ansible-core" and "ansible", which I've written about elsewhere. This kind of refactoring is unwelcome and breaks things, I'd have expected better from RHEL a few years ago. Now.... I've lost considerable confidence in Red Hat and in CentOS
On Thu, Nov 18, 2021 at 7:15 AM Nico Kadel-Garcia nkadel@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Nov 17, 2021 at 4:46 PM Brian Stinson brian@bstinson.com wrote:
On Wed, Nov 17, 2021, at 14:47, Odilon Junior wrote:
Hi,
As the $SUBJECT says, after the latest release of Centos 8, the Devel[1] repo is not populated.
I can see the packages for 8.4.2105[2]. Is this expected for this latest release?
Regards, Odilon
1 - http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/ 2 - https://vault.centos.org/8.4.2105/Devel/ _______________________________________________ CentOS-devel mailing list CentOS-devel@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
That is expected. Just a reminder CentOS Linux 8 goes End Of Life in December: https://www.centos.org/centos-linux-eol/ please plan accordingly.
I don't think anyone expected this. There was no reason to expect the individual channel to be shut off several months in advance of the EOL of the operating system. It's like moving the family to a new house only after the move announce that the dog is not coming with us.
This breaks working tools, like my tools that backport samba with full and stable Heimdal based Kerberos According to the Samba maintainers, the MIT kerberos used by the latest Fedora releases is not yet well enough integrated for production work, which is why I publish https://github.com/nkadel/samba4repo/ for Fedor and for RHEL releases. But they rely on 'quota-devel' for compilation, which is used by RHEL and CentOS for compiling their more limited versions of Samba but is arbitrarily hidden under tablecloth over in the 'Devel' channel.
quota-devel is available in PowerTools
http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/PowerTools/x86_64/os/Packages/quota... http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/PowerTools/x86_64/os/Packages/quota-devel-...
If you need a package that was previously in the Devel repo to support your migration you may download from vault.centos.org or from the buildsystem: https://koji.mbox.centos.org
--Brian
This kind of arbitrary, unannounced and unwelcome change is part of why people are losing trust in Red Hat and in CentOS as a reliable rebuild of RHEL It's mirrored by the very peculiar and illogical split up of "ansible" to "ansible-core" and "ansible", which I've written about elsewhere. This kind of refactoring is unwelcome and breaks things, I'd have expected better from RHEL a few years ago. Now.... I've lost considerable confidence in Red Hat and in CentOS
ansible is a separate product from RHEL and is not part of RHEL itself. The refactoring is something the Ansible product is pursuing and we have to adapt to their plans. As a result, we will be including ansible-core in RHEL to enable rhel-system-roles, but the bulk of what people consider 'ansible' to be will still need to be acquired from outside of RHEL.
josh
On Thu, Nov 18, 2021 at 7:45 AM Josh Boyer jwboyer@redhat.com wrote:
On Thu, Nov 18, 2021 at 7:15 AM Nico Kadel-Garcia nkadel@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Nov 17, 2021 at 4:46 PM Brian Stinson brian@bstinson.com wrote:
On Wed, Nov 17, 2021, at 14:47, Odilon Junior wrote:
Hi,
As the $SUBJECT says, after the latest release of Centos 8, the Devel[1] repo is not populated.
I can see the packages for 8.4.2105[2]. Is this expected for this latest release?
Regards, Odilon
1 - http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/ 2 - https://vault.centos.org/8.4.2105/Devel/ _______________________________________________ CentOS-devel mailing list CentOS-devel@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
That is expected. Just a reminder CentOS Linux 8 goes End Of Life in December: https://www.centos.org/centos-linux-eol/ please plan accordingly.
I don't think anyone expected this. There was no reason to expect the individual channel to be shut off several months in advance of the EOL of the operating system. It's like moving the family to a new house only after the move announce that the dog is not coming with us.
This breaks working tools, like my tools that backport samba with full and stable Heimdal based Kerberos According to the Samba maintainers, the MIT kerberos used by the latest Fedora releases is not yet well enough integrated for production work, which is why I publish https://github.com/nkadel/samba4repo/ for Fedor and for RHEL releases. But they rely on 'quota-devel' for compilation, which is used by RHEL and CentOS for compiling their more limited versions of Samba but is arbitrarily hidden under tablecloth over in the 'Devel' channel.
quota-devel is available in PowerTools
http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/PowerTools/x86_64/os/Packages/quota... http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/PowerTools/x86_64/os/Packages/quota-devel-...
It was previously over in 'Devel', until May as hinted by the RPM timestamps. Try:
mock -r epel-8-x86_64 install quota-devel
That works now if the 'Devel' repo is left disabled, but if the 'Devel' repo is enabled, which it was in my "mock" setups due to just this package, it now breaks. That's no longer a direct hindrance, but it left my setups broken yesterday.
I'm afraid it reinforces my point about arbitrary and software breaking re-arrangements of RPMs. It's part of why some companies and some developers are simply refusing to touch RHEL 8 and CentOS 8.
If you need a package that was previously in the Devel repo to support your migration you may download from vault.centos.org or from the buildsystem: https://koji.mbox.centos.org
--Brian
This kind of arbitrary, unannounced and unwelcome change is part of why people are losing trust in Red Hat and in CentOS as a reliable rebuild of RHEL It's mirrored by the very peculiar and illogical split up of "ansible" to "ansible-core" and "ansible", which I've written about elsewhere. This kind of refactoring is unwelcome and breaks things, I'd have expected better from RHEL a few years ago. Now.... I've lost considerable confidence in Red Hat and in CentOS
ansible is a separate product from RHEL and is not part of RHEL itself. The refactoring is something the Ansible product is pursuing and we have to adapt to their plans. As a result, we will be including ansible-core in RHEL to enable rhel-system-roles, but the bulk of what people consider 'ansible' to be will still need to be acquired from outside of RHEL.
That makes sense on the part of RHEL maintainers. In fact, I've published backports from Fedora rawhide which EPEL or RHEL are welcome to, over at https://github.com/nkadel/ansiblerepo/. I've even published a new ansible-4.8.0 RPM building tool there as well, although I intensely dislike that oversized agglomeration of 135 distinct modules.
But since Ansible is now owned by Red Hat, it would seem disingenuous to merley say "it's not part of RHEL". I pointed to it as an example of what is happening at Red Hat recently, breaking working tools with unexpected and unwelcome RPM re-arrangements. People like me can work around them fairly easily, but it sows distrust of Red Hat software suites.
On Thu, Nov 18, 2021 at 9:12 AM Nico Kadel-Garcia nkadel@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Nov 18, 2021 at 7:45 AM Josh Boyer jwboyer@redhat.com wrote:
On Thu, Nov 18, 2021 at 7:15 AM Nico Kadel-Garcia nkadel@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Nov 17, 2021 at 4:46 PM Brian Stinson brian@bstinson.com wrote:
On Wed, Nov 17, 2021, at 14:47, Odilon Junior wrote:
Hi,
As the $SUBJECT says, after the latest release of Centos 8, the Devel[1] repo is not populated.
I can see the packages for 8.4.2105[2]. Is this expected for this latest release?
Regards, Odilon
1 - http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/ 2 - https://vault.centos.org/8.4.2105/Devel/ _______________________________________________ CentOS-devel mailing list CentOS-devel@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
That is expected. Just a reminder CentOS Linux 8 goes End Of Life in December: https://www.centos.org/centos-linux-eol/ please plan accordingly.
I don't think anyone expected this. There was no reason to expect the individual channel to be shut off several months in advance of the EOL of the operating system. It's like moving the family to a new house only after the move announce that the dog is not coming with us.
This breaks working tools, like my tools that backport samba with full and stable Heimdal based Kerberos According to the Samba maintainers, the MIT kerberos used by the latest Fedora releases is not yet well enough integrated for production work, which is why I publish https://github.com/nkadel/samba4repo/ for Fedor and for RHEL releases. But they rely on 'quota-devel' for compilation, which is used by RHEL and CentOS for compiling their more limited versions of Samba but is arbitrarily hidden under tablecloth over in the 'Devel' channel.
quota-devel is available in PowerTools
http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/PowerTools/x86_64/os/Packages/quota... http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/PowerTools/x86_64/os/Packages/quota-devel-...
It was previously over in 'Devel', until May as hinted by the RPM timestamps. Try:
mock -r epel-8-x86_64 install quota-develThat works now if the 'Devel' repo is left disabled, but if the 'Devel' repo is enabled, which it was in my "mock" setups due to just this package, it now breaks. That's no longer a direct hindrance, but it left my setups broken yesterday.
I would encourage everyone to ignore the Devel repo. This is an unpopular opinion, but it shouldn't have been created to begin with.
I'm afraid it reinforces my point about arbitrary and software breaking re-arrangements of RPMs. It's part of why some companies and some developers are simply refusing to touch RHEL 8 and CentOS 8.
I can understand your frustration, but in this case someone followed the process to request the package be added in a user facing repository. It wasn't arbitrary, but information about the request and inclusion could be better.
If you need a package that was previously in the Devel repo to support your migration you may download from vault.centos.org or from the buildsystem: https://koji.mbox.centos.org
--Brian
This kind of arbitrary, unannounced and unwelcome change is part of why people are losing trust in Red Hat and in CentOS as a reliable rebuild of RHEL It's mirrored by the very peculiar and illogical split up of "ansible" to "ansible-core" and "ansible", which I've written about elsewhere. This kind of refactoring is unwelcome and breaks things, I'd have expected better from RHEL a few years ago. Now.... I've lost considerable confidence in Red Hat and in CentOS
ansible is a separate product from RHEL and is not part of RHEL itself. The refactoring is something the Ansible product is pursuing and we have to adapt to their plans. As a result, we will be including ansible-core in RHEL to enable rhel-system-roles, but the bulk of what people consider 'ansible' to be will still need to be acquired from outside of RHEL.
That makes sense on the part of RHEL maintainers. In fact, I've published backports from Fedora rawhide which EPEL or RHEL are welcome to, over at https://github.com/nkadel/ansiblerepo/. I've even published a new ansible-4.8.0 RPM building tool there as well, although I intensely dislike that oversized agglomeration of 135 distinct modules.
But since Ansible is now owned by Red Hat, it would seem disingenuous to merley say "it's not part of RHEL". I pointed to it as an example of what is happening at Red Hat recently, breaking working tools with unexpected and unwelcome RPM re-arrangements. People like me can work around them fairly easily, but it sows distrust of Red Hat software suites.
I was only pointing it out because your original comment seemed to imply that ansible should be included in the scope of a rebuild of RHEL. It's not.
Given the short time left, I'll take the opportunity to remind everyone that CentOS is no longer going to be centered around a rebuild of RHEL for RHEL 8+. CentOS Linux 8 will be EOL on December 31, 2021.
josh
On 11/18/21 08:20, Josh Boyer wrote:
On Thu, Nov 18, 2021 at 9:12 AM Nico Kadel-Garcia nkadel@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Nov 18, 2021 at 7:45 AM Josh Boyer jwboyer@redhat.com wrote:
On Thu, Nov 18, 2021 at 7:15 AM Nico Kadel-Garcia nkadel@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Nov 17, 2021 at 4:46 PM Brian Stinson brian@bstinson.com wrote:
On Wed, Nov 17, 2021, at 14:47, Odilon Junior wrote:
Hi,
As the $SUBJECT says, after the latest release of Centos 8, the Devel[1] repo is not populated.
I can see the packages for 8.4.2105[2]. Is this expected for this latest release?
Regards, Odilon
1 - http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/ 2 - https://vault.centos.org/8.4.2105/Devel/ _______________________________________________ CentOS-devel mailing list CentOS-devel@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
That is expected. Just a reminder CentOS Linux 8 goes End Of Life in December: https://www.centos.org/centos-linux-eol/ please plan accordingly.
I don't think anyone expected this. There was no reason to expect the individual channel to be shut off several months in advance of the EOL of the operating system. It's like moving the family to a new house only after the move announce that the dog is not coming with us.
This breaks working tools, like my tools that backport samba with full and stable Heimdal based Kerberos According to the Samba maintainers, the MIT kerberos used by the latest Fedora releases is not yet well enough integrated for production work, which is why I publish https://github.com/nkadel/samba4repo/ for Fedor and for RHEL releases. But they rely on 'quota-devel' for compilation, which is used by RHEL and CentOS for compiling their more limited versions of Samba but is arbitrarily hidden under tablecloth over in the 'Devel' channel.
quota-devel is available in PowerTools
http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/PowerTools/x86_64/os/Packages/quota... http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/PowerTools/x86_64/os/Packages/quota-devel-...
It was previously over in 'Devel', until May as hinted by the RPM timestamps. Try:
mock -r epel-8-x86_64 install quota-develThat works now if the 'Devel' repo is left disabled, but if the 'Devel' repo is enabled, which it was in my "mock" setups due to just this package, it now breaks. That's no longer a direct hindrance, but it left my setups broken yesterday.
I would encourage everyone to ignore the Devel repo. This is an unpopular opinion, but it shouldn't have been created to begin with.
I'm afraid it reinforces my point about arbitrary and software breaking re-arrangements of RPMs. It's part of why some companies and some developers are simply refusing to touch RHEL 8 and CentOS 8.
I can understand your frustration, but in this case someone followed the process to request the package be added in a user facing repository. It wasn't arbitrary, but information about the request and inclusion could be better.
If you need a package that was previously in the Devel repo to support your migration you may download from vault.centos.org or from the buildsystem: https://koji.mbox.centos.org
--Brian
This kind of arbitrary, unannounced and unwelcome change is part of why people are losing trust in Red Hat and in CentOS as a reliable rebuild of RHEL It's mirrored by the very peculiar and illogical split up of "ansible" to "ansible-core" and "ansible", which I've written about elsewhere. This kind of refactoring is unwelcome and breaks things, I'd have expected better from RHEL a few years ago. Now.... I've lost considerable confidence in Red Hat and in CentOS
ansible is a separate product from RHEL and is not part of RHEL itself. The refactoring is something the Ansible product is pursuing and we have to adapt to their plans. As a result, we will be including ansible-core in RHEL to enable rhel-system-roles, but the bulk of what people consider 'ansible' to be will still need to be acquired from outside of RHEL.
That makes sense on the part of RHEL maintainers. In fact, I've published backports from Fedora rawhide which EPEL or RHEL are welcome to, over at https://github.com/nkadel/ansiblerepo/. I've even published a new ansible-4.8.0 RPM building tool there as well, although I intensely dislike that oversized agglomeration of 135 distinct modules.
But since Ansible is now owned by Red Hat, it would seem disingenuous to merley say "it's not part of RHEL". I pointed to it as an example of what is happening at Red Hat recently, breaking working tools with unexpected and unwelcome RPM re-arrangements. People like me can work around them fairly easily, but it sows distrust of Red Hat software suites.
I was only pointing it out because your original comment seemed to imply that ansible should be included in the scope of a rebuild of RHEL. It's not.
Given the short time left, I'll take the opportunity to remind everyone that CentOS is no longer going to be centered around a rebuild of RHEL for RHEL 8+. CentOS Linux 8 will be EOL on December 31, 2021.
And guys .. this is key to understand.
CentOS Linux 8.5.2111 will, just like the older 8.4.2105, be moved to vault in a few short weeks (End of Jan 2022). CentOS Linux is EOL on 12/31/2021 as explained here:
https://www.centos.org/centos-linux-eol/
You absolutely should not be using Centos Linux 8 for anything important at this time.
If you are using CentOS Linux 8, you need to be figuring out how to move to something that will get updates past 12/31/2021.
If the items you need to build things are not in CentOS Stream 8, then, as Brain said, you can get anything we have built from:
https://koji.mbox.centos.org/koji/
CentOS Linux 7 will continue to be maintained as is until its normal EOL on 30 June 2024.
None of this is new and has been public for more than a year. It is happening on 12/31/2021.
Thanks, Johnny Hughes
Am 18.11.21 um 15:20 schrieb Josh Boyer:
On Thu, Nov 18, 2021 at 9:12 AM Nico Kadel-Garcia nkadel@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Nov 18, 2021 at 7:45 AM Josh Boyer jwboyer@redhat.com wrote:
On Thu, Nov 18, 2021 at 7:15 AM Nico Kadel-Garcia nkadel@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Nov 17, 2021 at 4:46 PM Brian Stinson brian@bstinson.com wrote:
On Wed, Nov 17, 2021, at 14:47, Odilon Junior wrote:
Hi,
As the $SUBJECT says, after the latest release of Centos 8, the Devel[1] repo is not populated.
I can see the packages for 8.4.2105[2]. Is this expected for this latest release?
Regards, Odilon
1 - http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/ 2 - https://vault.centos.org/8.4.2105/Devel/ _______________________________________________ CentOS-devel mailing list CentOS-devel@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
That is expected. Just a reminder CentOS Linux 8 goes End Of Life in December: https://www.centos.org/centos-linux-eol/ please plan accordingly.
I don't think anyone expected this. There was no reason to expect the individual channel to be shut off several months in advance of the EOL of the operating system. It's like moving the family to a new house only after the move announce that the dog is not coming with us.
This breaks working tools, like my tools that backport samba with full and stable Heimdal based Kerberos According to the Samba maintainers, the MIT kerberos used by the latest Fedora releases is not yet well enough integrated for production work, which is why I publish https://github.com/nkadel/samba4repo/ for Fedor and for RHEL releases. But they rely on 'quota-devel' for compilation, which is used by RHEL and CentOS for compiling their more limited versions of Samba but is arbitrarily hidden under tablecloth over in the 'Devel' channel.
quota-devel is available in PowerTools
http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/PowerTools/x86_64/os/Packages/quota... http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/PowerTools/x86_64/os/Packages/quota-devel-...
It was previously over in 'Devel', until May as hinted by the RPM timestamps. Try:
mock -r epel-8-x86_64 install quota-develThat works now if the 'Devel' repo is left disabled, but if the 'Devel' repo is enabled, which it was in my "mock" setups due to just this package, it now breaks. That's no longer a direct hindrance, but it left my setups broken yesterday.
I would encourage everyone to ignore the Devel repo. This is an unpopular opinion, but it shouldn't have been created to begin with.
I'm afraid it reinforces my point about arbitrary and software breaking re-arrangements of RPMs. It's part of why some companies and some developers are simply refusing to touch RHEL 8 and CentOS 8.
I can understand your frustration, but in this case someone followed the process to request the package be added in a user facing repository. It wasn't arbitrary, but information about the request and inclusion could be better.
I think that such discussion misses the actual point. It is not about EOL or whatever. Its about communication beforeand and consistency or to use a concept that the audience a very familiar with, its about deterministic behavior.
About the request; maybe all centos bug entries should be filled in the bugzilla of RH (category: _unreleased_devel_pkgs)?
https://bugs.centos.org/view_all_set.php?filter=619675a0165f2&sort_add=c...
@Johnny: Thanks for the effort ...
About ansible:
@Nico: Maybe it is worth to work with Kevin together?
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/epel-devel@lists.fedoraproject...
-- Leon
On 17/11/2021 21:45, Brian Stinson wrote:
On Wed, Nov 17, 2021, at 14:47, Odilon Junior wrote:
Hi,
As the $SUBJECT says, after the latest release of Centos 8, the Devel[1] repo is not populated.
I can see the packages for 8.4.2105[2]. Is this expected for this latest release?
Regards, Odilon
1 - http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/ 2 - https://vault.centos.org/8.4.2105/Devel/ _______________________________________________ CentOS-devel mailing list CentOS-devel@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
That is expected. Just a reminder CentOS Linux 8 goes End Of Life in December: https://www.centos.org/centos-linux-eol/%C2%A0please plan accordingly.
If you need a package that was previously in the Devel repo to support your migration you may download from vault.centos.org or from the buildsystem: https://koji.mbox.centos.org
You just don't get this do you. At all. This is about Red Hat and its word and whether that still means anything.
The announcement late last year said that CentOS Linux 8 would go EOL at the end of 2021, on 31/12.
It did not say that you would stop supporting it in mid-November.
It had no mention in that initial announcement about 8.5 and what would happen to that until those questions were asked during the many many questions that were asked following that initial bombshell. The main questions that were asked about 8.5 was "will there be a CentOS 8.5" and "will there be any updates to it". At that point, the EOL announcement was amended to include something about 8.5 to clarify the situation. The answer was meant to make clear that support was ongoing until the end of the year but that *if* 8.5 was not ready in time for the announced EOL date then work would continue on it until it was released.
If the "clarification" was also meant to shift the annouced EOL date backwards from 2021/12/31 then it made no mention of that. It's only now, once 8.5 has actually been released that Red Hat are backing away from the announced EOL date and trying to claim that the mention of 8.5 in it means that there won't be any more updates even though we are still 6 weeks away from the actual EOL date.
The amended announcement did not say "or whichever comes first". The very top line in it says "CentOS Linux 8 will reach End Of Life (EOL) on December 31st, 2021". There is also no mention of only building and releasing packages that are of a certain VCSS score. What it actually says is:
"We *will* be shipping a rebuild of Red Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL) 8.5 once it is released, even if that means that this is released slightly after the EOL date.
The release of a RHEL point release is often accompanied, immediately afterwards, by a set of zero-day updates. We *will* be providing this content as part of the final CentOS Linux 8 release. There will, however, be no more updates to the CentOS Linux 8 content after that time.
Additionally, with this deadline falling during a time when many of our team, as well as many of our users, will be out of the office, we intend to bend the usual EOL process by keeping this content available until January 31st.
At that time, or in the event of a serious security bug in this time window (Defined as anything with a VCSS v3 score of 9 or greater), this content will be removed from our mirrors, and moved to vault.centos.org https://vault.centos.org where it will be archived permanently"
That does not say "we'll only build and release packages with a VCSS score of > 9". It says "after December 31st, if 8.5 is not ready in time, then we will build it and release it along with all zero day fixes but if there is an update with a VCSS score > 9 AFTER the EOL date, then we will archive it to vault early".
Yes, I get that everyone should be stopping using CentOS Linux 8. It's going away. But you publicly announced that it would be supported until the end of the year. Multiple times. There will be people out there who are in mid-migration to something else and thought they had another 6 weeks do complete it.
So can we trust Red Hat to keep its word? A few years ago, I would not have hesitated to say "of course they will" but now? I'll watch what you *do* not what you *say*.
Trevor Hemsley
On Thu, Nov 18, 2021, at 10:17, Trevor Hemsley wrote:
On 17/11/2021 21:45, Brian Stinson wrote:
On Wed, Nov 17, 2021, at 14:47, Odilon Junior wrote:
Hi,
As the $SUBJECT says, after the latest release of Centos 8, the Devel[1] repo is not populated.
I can see the packages for 8.4.2105[2]. Is this expected for this latest release?
Regards, Odilon
1 - http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8/Devel/x86_64/ 2 - https://vault.centos.org/8.4.2105/Devel/ _______________________________________________ CentOS-devel mailing list CentOS-devel@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
That is expected. Just a reminder CentOS Linux 8 goes End Of Life in December: https://www.centos.org/centos-linux-eol/ please plan accordingly.
If you need a package that was previously in the Devel repo to support your migration you may download from vault.centos.org or from the buildsystem: https://koji.mbox.centos.org
You just don't get this do you. At all. This is about Red Hat and its word and whether that still means anything.
The announcement late last year said that CentOS Linux 8 would go EOL at the end of 2021, on 31/12.
It did not say that you would stop supporting it in mid-November.
It had no mention in that initial announcement about 8.5 and what would happen to that until those questions were asked during the many many questions that were asked following that initial bombshell. The main questions that were asked about 8.5 was "will there be a CentOS 8.5" and "will there be any updates to it". At that point, the EOL announcement was amended to include something about 8.5 to clarify the situation. The answer was meant to make clear that support was ongoing until the end of the year but that *if* 8.5 was not ready in time for the announced EOL date then work would continue on it until it was released.
If the "clarification" was also meant to shift the annouced EOL date backwards from 2021/12/31 then it made no mention of that. It's only now, once 8.5 has actually been released that Red Hat are backing away from the announced EOL date and trying to claim that the mention of 8.5 in it means that there won't be any more updates even though we are still 6 weeks away from the actual EOL date.
The amended announcement did not say "or whichever comes first". The very top line in it says "CentOS Linux 8 will reach End Of Life (EOL) on December 31st, 2021". There is also no mention of only building and releasing packages that are of a certain VCSS score. What it actually says is:
"We *will* be shipping a rebuild of Red Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL) 8.5 once it is released, even if that means that this is released slightly after the EOL date. The release of a RHEL point release is often accompanied, immediately afterwards, by a set of zero-day updates. We *will* be providing this content as part of the final CentOS Linux 8 release. There will, however, be no more updates to the CentOS Linux 8 content after that time.
Additionally, with this deadline falling during a time when many of our team, as well as many of our users, will be out of the office, we intend to bend the usual EOL process by keeping this content available until January 31st. At that time, or in the event of a serious security bug in this time window (Defined as anything with a VCSS v3 score of 9 or greater), this content will be removed from our mirrors, and moved to vault.centos.org where it will be archived permanently"
That does not say "we'll only build and release packages with a VCSS score of > 9". It says "after December 31st, if 8.5 is not ready in time, then we will build it and release it along with all zero day fixes but if there is an update with a VCSS score > 9 AFTER the EOL date, then we will archive it to vault early".
Yes, I get that everyone should be stopping using CentOS Linux 8. It's going away. But you publicly announced that it would be supported until the end of the year. Multiple times. There will be people out there who are in mid-migration to something else and thought they had another 6 weeks do complete it.
So can we trust Red Hat to keep its word? A few years ago, I would not have hesitated to say "of course they will" but now? I'll watch what you *do* not what you *say*.
Trevor Hemsley
The discussion about the interpretation of the EOL announcement is a good one, we should keep that going. The Devel repo is a slightly different topic though.
If you remember how the Devel repo was meant to work, it was meant to contain -devel packages that we've accepted into one of the core repos in the middle of a minor-release: https://wiki.centos.org/FAQ/CentOS8/UnshippedPackages
For every CentOS Linux point-release the intent was to clear out the Devel repo because that content is expected to show up in BaseOS, AppStream, or PowerTools (see what happened in this particular instance with quota-devel). The other goal was to ship this content *somewhere* because we couldn't allow downloads from the buildsystem at the time. Devel was always a hack around these 2 constraints.
We have something better, though. We revisited requirements, put some infrastructure behind the buildsystem, and opened up downloads for folks. Since May, folks have been able to use the entire buildroot repos directly from the buildsystem if they so choose: https://koji.mbox.centos.org/kojifiles/repos/dist-c8-build/latest/
--Brian
On Thu, Nov 18, 2021 at 11:43 AM Brian Stinson brian@bstinson.com wrote:
The discussion about the interpretation of the EOL announcement is a good one, we should keep that going. The Devel repo is a slightly different topic though.
If you remember how the Devel repo was meant to work, it was meant to contain -devel packages that we've accepted into one of the core repos in the middle of a minor-release: https://wiki.centos.org/FAQ/CentOS8/UnshippedPackages
Your description does not match the Wiki you cite, which says *nothing* about "-devel" packages, only about "packages". And the concept of "accepted into the core repos" is a very peculiar one when the "quota-devel" repo is used for compiling critical system tools like "samba-client-libs", which in turn is woven into sssd. That.... messed with my work on Samba. I strongly dislike having to work my way around this by a different means once a year, and I hope that the "Devel" repo will never be needed again.
For every CentOS Linux point-release the intent was to clear out the Devel repo because that content is expected to show up in BaseOS, AppStream, or PowerTools (see what happened in this particular instance with quota-devel). The other goal was to ship this content *somewhere* because we couldn't allow downloads from the buildsystem at the time. Devel was always a hack around these 2 constraints.
That may have been the intent, It wasn't and isn't clear from the Wiki. Neither is any of what you say here.
We have something better, though. We revisited requirements, put some infrastructure behind the buildsystem, and opened up downloads for folks. Since May, folks have been able to use the entire buildroot repos directly from the buildsystem if they so choose: https://koji.mbox.centos.org/kojifiles/repos/dist-c8-build/latest/
Could you add this to the wiki? Or who could?
On Thu, 18 Nov 2021 at 16:18, Nico Kadel-Garcia nkadel@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Nov 18, 2021 at 11:43 AM Brian Stinson brian@bstinson.com wrote:
The discussion about the interpretation of the EOL announcement is a good one, we should keep that going. The Devel repo is a slightly different topic though.
If you remember how the Devel repo was meant to work, it was meant to contain -devel packages that we've accepted into one of the core repos in the middle of a minor-release: https://wiki.centos.org/FAQ/CentOS8/UnshippedPackages
Your description does not match the Wiki you cite, which says *nothing* about "-devel" packages, only about "packages". And the concept of "accepted into the core repos" is a very peculiar one when the "quota-devel" repo is used for compiling critical system tools like "samba-client-libs", which in turn is woven into sssd. That.... messed with my work on Samba. I strongly dislike having to work my way around this by a different means once a year, and I hope that the "Devel" repo will never be needed again.
I am saying the below as the person who spent a year lobbying for the Devel repo and now the cause of this ruckus. When EPEL was getting started, we needed various packages which were not in Code Ready Builder/Powertools. Adding them to Code Ready Builder takes time and could be delayed for various reasons. The CentOS koji was not able to handle large amounts of download traffic and so was not available. In the end, a compromise was worked out where various packages were hand pulled out of koji and put in a devel repo which could allow for those EPEL packages to get the headers needed.
The hackiness of this should have been obvious over the fact that after 8.3 came out the Devel repo still had old packages for a long time. The same after 8.4 came out and it was empty until a rebuild caused the need to get some items in it. With the end of CentOS Linux in ~40 days, relying on someone to hand-populate the repo for a short period makes no sense. Instead, I would highly recommend that people either:
1. Try to work out a way to have the package in EPEL using the better method Troy is using versus my hack 2. Use Alma or Rocky Devel repo as they are fairly complete and will be supported after 2021-12-31. 3. If (and only if) this works for your deployed workload, use the CentOS Stream method outlined by Brian Stinson.
[I understand nearly everyone's pain on this.. and my apologies for paving this part of the road to Heck with my good intentions.]
On Thu, Nov 18, 2021 at 5:39 PM Stephen John Smoogen smooge@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, 18 Nov 2021 at 16:18, Nico Kadel-Garcia nkadel@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Nov 18, 2021 at 11:43 AM Brian Stinson brian@bstinson.com wrote:
The discussion about the interpretation of the EOL announcement is a good one, we should keep that going. The Devel repo is a slightly different topic though.
If you remember how the Devel repo was meant to work, it was meant to contain -devel packages that we've accepted into one of the core repos in the middle of a minor-release: https://wiki.centos.org/FAQ/CentOS8/UnshippedPackages
Your description does not match the Wiki you cite, which says *nothing* about "-devel" packages, only about "packages". And the concept of "accepted into the core repos" is a very peculiar one when the "quota-devel" repo is used for compiling critical system tools like "samba-client-libs", which in turn is woven into sssd. That.... messed with my work on Samba. I strongly dislike having to work my way around this by a different means once a year, and I hope that the "Devel" repo will never be needed again.
I am saying the below as the person who spent a year lobbying for the Devel repo and now the cause of this ruckus. When EPEL was getting started, we needed various packages which were not in Code Ready Builder/Powertools. Adding them to Code Ready Builder takes time and could be delayed for various reasons. The CentOS koji was not able to handle large amounts of download traffic and so was not available. In the end, a compromise was worked out where various packages were hand pulled out of koji and put in a devel repo which could allow for those EPEL packages to get the headers needed.
Something seems to be missing. Someone, at some point, decided to publish the "quota" package into the kickstart and base repos. Someone, at the same time, elected to exclude quota-devel. That's not "these are pending release", that's putting it "on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard.”.'
I appreciate your chaining up the leopard, but that doesn't explain why the plans for destroying Arhur Dent's house weren't upstairs with the rest of the plans for the highway bypass or in this case why "quota" and "quota-devel" weren't published side-by-side.
The hackiness of this should have been obvious over the fact that after 8.3 came out the Devel repo still had old packages for a long time. The same after 8.4 came out and it was empty until a rebuild caused the need to get some items in it. With the end of CentOS Linux in ~40 days, relying on someone to hand-populate the repo for a short period makes no sense. Instead, I would highly recommend that people either:
Then *that* is broken. Deleting or discarding packages from a repo should trigger a createrepo_c, as should the initial creation of a directory in which a repo will reside. Creating repodata for an empty repo is petty fast and I'd not expect it to be a significant burden on build tools.
- Try to work out a way to have the package in EPEL using the better
method Troy is using versus my hack 2. Use Alma or Rocky Devel repo as they are fairly complete and will be supported after 2021-12-31.
I may do so: but I'm not in a huge rush until one of them is better settled. I may tweak my tools after CentOS 8.5 is designated, but I'm ready to take on another RHEL platform. I was doing some work towards an Amazon Linux compatible fully enabled Samba 4.15.1: The CentOS 8 and Fedora published versions apparently using the "not-yet-ready-for-producton" Kerberos 5 integration, I checked with Andrew Bartlett about that last week.
- If (and only if) this works for your deployed workload, use the
CentOS Stream method outlined by Brian Stinson.
[I understand nearly everyone's pain on this.. and my apologies for paving this part of the road to Heck with my good intentions.]
*Yeech*. Now that quota has a matching quota-devel in the primary repos, as I think it should have always had, I don't have this particular issue. I much prefer to do my development in mock, rather than koji, since that allows me a great deal of debugger access to the build environments and easier local regression testing on resources I've paid for. But I'll keep this in mind if this issue comes up again.
-
Brian Stinson -
Johnny Hughes -
Josh Boyer -
Leon Fauster -
Nico Kadel-Garcia -
Odilon Junior -
Stephen John Smoogen -
Trevor Hemsley