TL;DR:
* Dojo CFP open now at forms.gle/wRa8r5ZRHrqnZ6VF6 * Closes April 5th, 00:01 UTC
As promised in my email a few weeks ago, we're going to try to do online Dojos quarterly for the coming few quarters, and we're pleased to announce the first of these.
We will be holding the event May 13th and 14th, once again using the Hopin platform that we used last time. (Those of you who sent feedback about the platform may like to know that this was all passed on to Hopin, and at least some of it has been addressed since then.)
Details of the event are here: https://wiki.centos.org/Events/Dojo/May2021
More details will of course come soon, once we have the online event created.
Registration will be free.
The Call for Presentations (CfP) is now live, at forms.gle/wRa8r5ZRHrqnZ6VF6
We are looking for presentations about CentOS. This can be CentOS Linux, CentOS Stream, CentOS SIG work, any work in the CentOS community, or any project you're running on top of CentOS distributions.
Attendees of the February event specifically asked for more content about:
* CentOS Stream * Koji (and similar ways of managing rpm builds) * Creating your own module/package in a personal repo * Gitlab * CentOS Stream contribution flow * FreeIPA * Keycloak * SIG updates
Please let me know if you have any further questions, and I hope to see your presentation proposals soon!
--Rich
On 03/03/2021 18:56, Rich Bowen wrote: <snip>
We will be holding the event May 13th and 14th, once again using the Hopin platform that we used last time. (Those of you who sent feedback about the platform may like to know that this was all passed on to Hopin, and at least some of it has been addressed since then.)
May I suggest to also give the hours/timezone for the Dojo ? Online events are a big issue with conflicting timezones and professional/personal events so knowing it before submitting a proposal (or just even register online to attend it) is a huge win :)
On 3/3/21 1:32 PM, Fabian Arrotin wrote:
On 03/03/2021 18:56, Rich Bowen wrote:
<snip> > > We will be holding the event May 13th and 14th, once again using the > Hopin platform that we used last time. (Those of you who sent feedback > about the platform may like to know that this was all passed on to > Hopin, and at least some of it has been addressed since then.)
May I suggest to also give the hours/timezone for the Dojo ? Online events are a big issue with conflicting timezones and professional/personal events so knowing it before submitting a proposal (or just even register online to attend it) is a huge win :)
Sure, excellent point.
My plan was to run sessions from 15:00 UTC to 18:00 UTC, as I think we have found, from experience, this overlaps availability of the widest possible audience. If anyone feels strongly that we should do something different, please let me know.
--Rich
On Wednesday, March 3, 2021 11:56 AM, Rich Bowen rbowen@redhat.com wrote:
We will be holding the event May 13th and 14th, once again using the Hopin platform that we used last time. (Those of you who sent feedback about the platform may like to know that this was all passed on to Hopin, and at least some of it has been addressed since then.)
Will we always be stuck with whatever RH OSPO (odd name for a group that chooses non-FOSS software) selects for the CentOS Dojos?
It would be nice if the feedback from the CentOS community will helping to enrich a FOSS project as well.
If CentOS is strictly controlled by the RH OSPO for each of these dojo's, can we get information from the RH OSPO on why they ruled out all FOSS software for this purpose? What features still need to be added for the Open Source Program Office to embrace Open Source?
I understand the tight time constraints for having something that was ready in time for FOSDEM. But it seems like even when time is not the pressing item that there are other unstated issues making Closed Source services preferable for CentOS than FOSS.
On 08 Mar 09:26, redbaronbrowser via CentOS-devel wrote:
On Wednesday, March 3, 2021 11:56 AM, Rich Bowen rbowen@redhat.com wrote:
We will be holding the event May 13th and 14th, once again using the Hopin platform that we used last time. (Those of you who sent feedback about the platform may like to know that this was all passed on to Hopin, and at least some of it has been addressed since then.)Will we always be stuck with whatever RH OSPO (odd name for a group that chooses non-FOSS software) selects for the CentOS Dojos?
It would be nice if the feedback from the CentOS community will helping to enrich a FOSS project as well.
If CentOS is strictly controlled by the RH OSPO for each of these dojo's, can we get information from the RH OSPO on why they ruled out all FOSS software for this purpose? What features still need to be added for the Open Source Program Office to embrace Open Source?
I understand the tight time constraints for having something that was ready in time for FOSDEM. But it seems like even when time is not the pressing item that there are other unstated issues making Closed Source services preferable for CentOS than FOSS.
My 2c
Creating and managing a platform for online event is out of scope for the CentOS project, and it is very very time consuming. It is also very hard to get it right. I don't think that this is what matters the most here, and that it is the place where our time is best spent.
CentOS-devel mailing list CentOS-devel@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
On 3/8/21 4:26 AM, redbaronbrowser via CentOS-devel wrote:
On Wednesday, March 3, 2021 11:56 AM, Rich Bowen rbowen@redhat.com wrote:
We will be holding the event May 13th and 14th, once again using the Hopin platform that we used last time. (Those of you who sent feedback about the platform may like to know that this was all passed on to Hopin, and at least some of it has been addressed since then.)Will we always be stuck with whatever RH OSPO (odd name for a group that chooses non-FOSS software) selects for the CentOS Dojos?
No, not at all. YOU TOO can run a Dojo. There's helpful information here. https://wiki.centos.org/Events/Dojo
It would be nice if the feedback from the CentOS community will helping to enrich a FOSS project as well.
If CentOS is strictly controlled by the RH OSPO for each of these dojo's, can we get information from the RH OSPO on why they ruled out all FOSS software for this purpose? What features still need to be added for the Open Source Program Office to embrace Open Source?
I understand the tight time constraints for having something that was ready in time for FOSDEM. But it seems like even when time is not the pressing item that there are other unstated issues making Closed Source services preferable for CentOS than FOSS.
As Julien observes, nobody has stepped up to host or administer a conference server. This would seem impractical, for something we do 4-5 times a year. But if you're volunteering, of course I'm very interested in speaking with you more about how this would work.
On Monday, March 8, 2021 7:08 AM, Rich Bowen rbowen@redhat.com wrote:
On 3/8/21 4:26 AM, redbaronbrowser via CentOS-devel wrote:
On Wednesday, March 3, 2021 11:56 AM, Rich Bowen rbowen@redhat.com wrote:
We will be holding the event May 13th and 14th, once again using the Hopin platform that we used last time. (Those of you who sent feedback about the platform may like to know that this was all passed on to Hopin, and at least some of it has been addressed since then.)Will we always be stuck with whatever RH OSPO (odd name for a group that chooses non-FOSS software) selects for the CentOS Dojos?
No, not at all. YOU TOO can run a Dojo. There's helpful information here. https://wiki.centos.org/Events/Dojo
It would be nice if the feedback from the CentOS community will helping to enrich a FOSS project as well. If CentOS is strictly controlled by the RH OSPO for each of these dojo's, can we get information from the RH OSPO on why they ruled out all FOSS software for this purpose? What features still need to be added for the Open Source Program Office to embrace Open Source? I understand the tight time constraints for having something that was ready in time for FOSDEM. But it seems like even when time is not the pressing item that there are other unstated issues making Closed Source services preferable for CentOS than FOSS.
As Julien observes, nobody has stepped up to host or administer a conference server. This would seem impractical, for something we do 4-5 times a year. But if you're volunteering, of course I'm very interested in speaking with you more about how this would work.
I'm willing to reach out to 8x8.vc on behalf of the CentOS project to ask about hosting Dojos after the one in May. But before I do that, it would be nice to better understand was criteria the RH OSPO was using. If there is a key feature that makes a closed source service preferable to a FOSS one, I can understand that. If FOSS solutions need to improve first, than I want to help improve them.
However, I am currently working in the dark. There is no transparency into how RH OSPO conducted it's review of services. And I can't find where the feedback on things Hopin was asked to improve is.
On 3/8/21 12:18 PM, redbaronbrowser wrote:
As Julien observes, nobody has stepped up to host or administer a conference server. This would seem impractical, for something we do 4-5 times a year. But if you're volunteering, of course I'm very interested in speaking with you more about how this would work.
I'm willing to reach out to 8x8.vc on behalf of the CentOS project to ask about hosting Dojos after the one in May. But before I do that, it would be nice to better understand was criteria the RH OSPO was using. If there is a key feature that makes a closed source service preferable to a FOSS one, I can understand that. If FOSS solutions need to improve first, than I want to help improve them.
However, I am currently working in the dark. There is no transparency into how RH OSPO conducted it's review of services. And I can't find where the feedback on things Hopin was asked to improve is.
*MY* criteria was the following:
1) I had used it already for running Apache events, in my role there as event lead. (Feedback document is here - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wxBoEThnLFup57__RmbTBFOgU6L7LxT0Xj-HMP1n... - complete with responses from Hopin folks)
2) RH OSPO offered me use of the platform that they are already paying for.
3) I don't want to have to go hunt for someone to stand up and maintain a service on CentOS infra for something that we do 4-5 times a year.
4) A commercial org has a large incentive to have adequate bandwidth, accessible anywhere in the world, which I could never hope to do on infra that we stand up and host ourselves.
What criteria Red Hat OSPO used to select this service is not really something that it's my place to share with you, even if I had it. My only input into that was that I had had some success using Hopin with Apache events.
There are currently *hundreds* of event hosting platforms/providers, and evaluating them all to select the "best" one is not something I have the time to do. If you wish to take on that project (or get a group together to do it with you) not only would that be awesome for us, but we should share our results with the larger open source ecosystem for everyone's benefit.
Focusing solely on open source solutions is certainly a valid/valuable choice we could make here. As I understand it, at the time that the Red Hat OSPO did the evaluation, there were no reliable hosted open source solution providers that we got positive reviews for. But, again, that's anecdotal and I don't have that info first hand. And since we went with a year-long contract rather than a per-event one, we are in for the long haul.
So ... yes, I would absolutely love to have more help putting together future events, and this is just one of the many places where I could benefit from volunteer effort.
As to this process being transparent ... every time I have worked on putting together one of these events, I have called for volunteers to help with the process, and exactly zero people have ever stepped up to help. So it's hard to be transparent when it's just me working on it. I would love to see that situation change.
On 3/8/21 1:42 PM, Rich Bowen wrote:
However, I am currently working in the dark. There is no transparency into how RH OSPO conducted it's review of services. And I can't find where the feedback on things Hopin was asked to improve is.
FWIW, I *completely* disagree that you're working in the dark. If you've ever run or even attended a virtual event, you are qualified to volunteer to do this. I do it solo because I have, so far, not been successful in finding other people to step up to volunteer to do it.
And, more importantly, it's your community as much as it is mine, and you have the authority to make these decisions too. The only reason that I make these decisions unilaterally is that I'm being paid by Red Hat to do so, and my calls for volunteers have gone largely unanswered.
The ideal situation for me would be to find volunteers to do every task that I currently do - newsletters, events, social media, SIG report wrangling, etc, etc, etc - and then I could just drink scotch and watch other people get stuff done.
It's quite possible that I don't do enough to expose these opportunities. I'll try to do better about that.
--Rich
On Monday, March 8, 2021 12:55 PM, Rich Bowen rbowen@redhat.com wrote:
On 3/8/21 1:42 PM, Rich Bowen wrote:
However, I am currently working in the dark. There is no transparency into how RH OSPO conducted it's review of services. And I can't find where the feedback on things Hopin was asked to improve is.
FWIW, Icompletely disagree that you're working in the dark. If you've ever run or even attended a virtual event, you are qualified to volunteer to do this. I do it solo because I have, so far, not been successful in finding other people to step up to volunteer to do it.
And, more importantly, it's your community as much as it is mine, and you have the authority to make these decisions too. The only reason that I make these decisions unilaterally is that I'm being paid by Red Hat to do so, and my calls for volunteers have gone largely unanswered.
The ideal situation for me would be to find volunteers to do every task that I currently do - newsletters, events, social media, SIG report wrangling, etc, etc, etc - and then I could just drink scotch and watch other people get stuff done.
It's quite possible that I don't do enough to expose these opportunities. I'll try to do better about that.
I am not trying to make a negative statement about the job you are doing. Thank you for what you have done for Apache and CentOS events. As well, thank you for working on the newsletters, social media, etc.
I also wasn't trying to imply it had to be you to give the RH OSPO criteria. I was hoping they could speak for themselves. Information on what they are and what they do is here:
https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/what-does-open-source-program-office-do
A key point in that article is this:
"That is the most important mission for an OSPO: aligning open source best practices with the business strategy of the organization."
I would like to help with this important mission someone from the OSPO is willing to accept that help.
I have run personal virtual events with jitsi in docker. I have also attended virtual events. Having 5-6 presenters is something I have done (which seems to be around were the last Dojo topped out). I personally have not had anywhere near what I expect was the number of attendees to the dojo. That will biggest factor on the amount of upstream bandwidth the server requires.
If you want, I can volunteer to reach out to 8x8 Meet to see if they could offer anything for a future dojo.
I would want to know ahead of time how many presenters and attendees you expect to have. I would be asking for a date we could stress test the service ahead of time before committing to using it for a dojo. And I would also be asking to be able to upload the recordings to youtube. Let me know if there is anything else I should be asking for.
Lastly, thanks again for your hard work in providing the transparency you do.
ok, urejeno.
LpM
On Mon, 8 Mar 2021, redbaronbrowser via CentOS-devel wrote:
On Monday, March 8, 2021 12:55 PM, Rich Bowen rbowen@redhat.com wrote:
On 3/8/21 1:42 PM, Rich Bowen wrote:
However, I am currently working in the dark. There is no transparency into how RH OSPO conducted it's review of services. And I can't find where the feedback on things Hopin was asked to improve is.
FWIW, Icompletely disagree that you're working in the dark. If you've ever run or even attended a virtual event, you are qualified to volunteer to do this. I do it solo because I have, so far, not been successful in finding other people to step up to volunteer to do it.
And, more importantly, it's your community as much as it is mine, and you have the authority to make these decisions too. The only reason that I make these decisions unilaterally is that I'm being paid by Red Hat to do so, and my calls for volunteers have gone largely unanswered.
The ideal situation for me would be to find volunteers to do every task that I currently do - newsletters, events, social media, SIG report wrangling, etc, etc, etc - and then I could just drink scotch and watch other people get stuff done.
It's quite possible that I don't do enough to expose these opportunities. I'll try to do better about that.
I am not trying to make a negative statement about the job you are doing. Thank you for what you have done for Apache and CentOS events. As well, thank you for working on the newsletters, social media, etc.
I also wasn't trying to imply it had to be you to give the RH OSPO criteria. I was hoping they could speak for themselves. Information on what they are and what they do is here:
https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/what-does-open-source-program-office-do
A key point in that article is this:
"That is the most important mission for an OSPO: aligning open source best practices with the business strategy of the organization."
I would like to help with this important mission someone from the OSPO is willing to accept that help.
I have run personal virtual events with jitsi in docker. I have also attended virtual events. Having 5-6 presenters is something I have done (which seems to be around were the last Dojo topped out). I personally have not had anywhere near what I expect was the number of attendees to the dojo. That will biggest factor on the amount of upstream bandwidth the server requires.
If you want, I can volunteer to reach out to 8x8 Meet to see if they could offer anything for a future dojo.
I would want to know ahead of time how many presenters and attendees you expect to have. I would be asking for a date we could stress test the service ahead of time before committing to using it for a dojo. And I would also be asking to be able to upload the recordings to youtube. Let me know if there is anything else I should be asking for.
Lastly, thanks again for your hard work in providing the transparency you do. _______________________________________________ CentOS-devel mailing list CentOS-devel@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
Wrong reply :facepalm: :)
On Mon, 8 Mar 2021, Marko Bevc wrote:
ok, urejeno.
LpM
On Mon, 8 Mar 2021, redbaronbrowser via CentOS-devel wrote:
On Monday, March 8, 2021 12:55 PM, Rich Bowen rbowen@redhat.com wrote:
On 3/8/21 1:42 PM, Rich Bowen wrote:
However, I am currently working in the dark. There is no transparency into how RH OSPO conducted it's review of services. And I can't find where the feedback on things Hopin was asked to improve is.
FWIW, Icompletely disagree that you're working in the dark. If you've ever run or even attended a virtual event, you are qualified to volunteer to do this. I do it solo because I have, so far, not been successful in finding other people to step up to volunteer to do it.
And, more importantly, it's your community as much as it is mine, and you have the authority to make these decisions too. The only reason that I make these decisions unilaterally is that I'm being paid by Red Hat to do so, and my calls for volunteers have gone largely unanswered.
The ideal situation for me would be to find volunteers to do every task that I currently do - newsletters, events, social media, SIG report wrangling, etc, etc, etc - and then I could just drink scotch and watch other people get stuff done.
It's quite possible that I don't do enough to expose these opportunities. I'll try to do better about that.
I am not trying to make a negative statement about the job you are doing. Thank you for what you have done for Apache and CentOS events. As well, thank you for working on the newsletters, social media, etc.
I also wasn't trying to imply it had to be you to give the RH OSPO criteria. I was hoping they could speak for themselves. Information on what they are and what they do is here:
https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/what-does-open-source-program-office-do
A key point in that article is this:
"That is the most important mission for an OSPO: aligning open source best practices with the business strategy of the organization."
I would like to help with this important mission someone from the OSPO is willing to accept that help.
I have run personal virtual events with jitsi in docker. I have also attended virtual events. Having 5-6 presenters is something I have done (which seems to be around were the last Dojo topped out). I personally have not had anywhere near what I expect was the number of attendees to the dojo. That will biggest factor on the amount of upstream bandwidth the server requires.
If you want, I can volunteer to reach out to 8x8 Meet to see if they could offer anything for a future dojo.
I would want to know ahead of time how many presenters and attendees you expect to have. I would be asking for a date we could stress test the service ahead of time before committing to using it for a dojo. And I would also be asking to be able to upload the recordings to youtube. Let me know if there is anything else I should be asking for.
Lastly, thanks again for your hard work in providing the transparency you do. _______________________________________________ CentOS-devel mailing list CentOS-devel@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
On 3/8/21 2:56 PM, redbaronbrowser wrote:
I am not trying to make a negative statement about the job you are doing. Thank you for what you have done for Apache and CentOS events. As well, thank you for working on the newsletters, social media, etc.
No, I didn't take it that way. But I'm also aware that paying someone to do a job is often a very effective way to get volunteers to stand down, and that is absolutely a non-goal of mine.
I also wasn't trying to imply it had to be you to give the RH OSPO criteria. I was hoping they could speak for themselves. Information on what they are and what they do is here:
https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/what-does-open-source-program-office-do
A key point in that article is this:
"That is the most important mission for an OSPO: aligning open source best practices with the business strategy of the organization."
I think that in this particular case, the balance between open source best practice and business strategy ended up landing on paying for a commercial service rather than trying to host something.
It is *always* the case that when these kinds of debates happen within Red Hat there is a strong "we should only use open source solutions" voice which is then pitted against other more mundane concerns like "do they have the bandwidth for all of our events?" and "are they responsive to bug reports?" I'm sure that was the case here, too.
I would like to help with this important mission someone from the OSPO is willing to accept that help.
Although I wasn't the one that made the Hopin decision for the RH OSPO, I influenced it, and am presumably the spokesperson for RH OSPO here in CentOS.
That said, CentOS is at completely liberty to either use the platform provided for us by RH OSPO, or go our own way. Other RH OSPO-supported projects (Ceph comes to mine) have chosen to use other platforms. I have chosen to take the easy approach of just using the platform that was offered to me, because it was less work for me.
I have run personal virtual events with jitsi in docker. I have also attended virtual events. Having 5-6 presenters is something I have done (which seems to be around were the last Dojo topped out). I personally have not had anywhere near what I expect was the number of attendees to the dojo. That will biggest factor on the amount of upstream bandwidth the server requires.
If you want, I can volunteer to reach out to 8x8 Meet to see if they could offer anything for a future dojo.
I would be glad to hear their offering and how it compares to what RH OSPO is offering us. Financial considerations are, of course important, and if we're going to pay a different service, I am the one that holds the budget on that - but I have a lot of autonomy on spending that for the benefit of the project community.
I would want to know ahead of time how many presenters and attendees you expect to have. I would be asking for a date we could stress test the service ahead of time before committing to using it for a dojo. And I would also be asking to be able to upload the recordings to youtube. Let me know if there is anything else I should be asking for.
For this Dojo - https://wiki.centos.org/Events/Dojo/FOSDEM2021 - we had seven presentations plus the board round-table. That was limited by submissions, rather than by any artificial limit that I imposed upon it. I would be glad to have more presentations in our schedule. For the last in-person event we had 12 presentations - https://wiki.centos.org/Events/Dojo/Brussels2020
We had right around 200 attendees. https://blog.centos.org/2021/02/centos-dojo-fosdem-2021/ And, again, I would be happy for it to be bigger than that.
If we had a volunteer (or group of volunteers) who wanted to run our Dojos, the only "control" I have over that is budgetary. (Unless someone else either wanted to pay for it, or find sponsors to cover it, as we have done at various times in the past.)
--Rich
On Mon, Mar 08, 2021 at 03:15:34PM -0500, Rich Bowen wrote:
I would be glad to hear their offering and how it compares to what RH OSPO is offering us. Financial considerations are, of course important, and if we're going to pay a different service, I am the one that holds the budget on that - but I have a lot of autonomy on spending that for the benefit of the project community.
For what it's worth, over in Fedora we also 1) would love to use open source for everything and 2) chose to use HopIn for some of our virtual events. Our conferences are important to us, but we're not in the conference business, and we don't require conference hotels to run their systems all on open source in order to have an in-person event.
Bandwidth is definitely a big concern, but another one is the backend event- organizer-oriented stuff. Some of the open source approaches I've seen are basically "scheduled video calls with chat" whereas HopIn has a lot of tools and backend stuff designed to make life easier for the people running the event, which is crucial when it's only a handful of volunteers (and even people paid to work on it don't have the event as their full-time job).
There may be options out there I'm not aware of that have more, but when evaluating don't forget to keep this in mind when looking at capabilities.
Le lundi 08 mars 2021 à 15:33 -0500, Matthew Miller a écrit :
On Mon, Mar 08, 2021 at 03:15:34PM -0500, Rich Bowen wrote:
I would be glad to hear their offering and how it compares to what RH OSPO is offering us. Financial considerations are, of course important, and if we're going to pay a different service, I am the one that holds the budget on that - but I have a lot of autonomy on spending that for the benefit of the project community.
For what it's worth, over in Fedora we also 1) would love to use open source for everything and 2) chose to use HopIn for some of our virtual events. Our conferences are important to us, but we're not in the conference business, and we don't require conference hotels to run their systems all on open source in order to have an in-person event.
Bandwidth is definitely a big concern, but another one is the backend event- organizer-oriented stuff. Some of the open source approaches I've seen are basically "scheduled video calls with chat" whereas HopIn has a lot of tools and backend stuff designed to make life easier for the people running the event, which is crucial when it's only a handful of volunteers (and even people paid to work on it don't have the event as their full-time job).
There is also the question of latency, eg, not too bad for various part of the world, especially for discussion.
There is the question of rooms and moderations, which was not great on Jitsi. It was not made for that, and while people can make it work, there is so much more for a good experience (like, having a proper concept for rooms, etc). The diagram of the architecture for FOSDEM was a bit scary, and I understand why they had to do that, but the video team is surely bigger than the number of people discussing here on the topic at the moment.
And there is the question of support. I would have been able to spin a BBB instance without too much problem (just close my eyes at the fact this requires a older version of Ubuntu...), but with 2 sysadmins in RH OSPO, we already can't cover all the project we want to help (around a dozen), and we can't really be on-call for all events (for ressources reasons, and for legal reasons, weekend and night work is heavily regulated in my country) .
There may be options out there I'm not aware of that have more, but when evaluating don't forget to keep this in mind when looking at capabilities.
I heard good things about Big Blue Button, used by AFPy, the french python association, for meetups ( https://bbb.afpy.org/ ), or by a bunch of french indies hosters (see the CHATONS collective website). Or in fact, by GNOME: https://meet.gnome.org/
The AFPy pay around 20€ par month (Start-2-M-SSD at Online.net, and I looked, 80$ if hosted by Digital Ocean in the US for a equivalent 16G server). For that price, the server had no problem with 50 connections (which was the biggest meetup so far)
My partner also told me about paid hosting, used at their work, like https://www.octopuce.fr/visioconference-un-service-innovant-securise-et-libr...
Some people told that it can go to up to 100 people, and after, you need to start to load balance, with that article on Amazon: https://aws.amazon.com/fr/blogs/opensource/how-to-build-a-scalable-bigbluebu...
But it start to be pricy I guess.
Am 10.03.21 um 18:25 schrieb Michael Scherer:
Le lundi 08 mars 2021 à 15:33 -0500, Matthew Miller a écrit :
On Mon, Mar 08, 2021 at 03:15:34PM -0500, Rich Bowen wrote:
I would be glad to hear their offering and how it compares to what RH OSPO is offering us. Financial considerations are, of course important, and if we're going to pay a different service, I am the one that holds the budget on that - but I have a lot of autonomy on spending that for the benefit of the project community.
For what it's worth, over in Fedora we also 1) would love to use open source for everything and 2) chose to use HopIn for some of our virtual events. Our conferences are important to us, but we're not in the conference business, and we don't require conference hotels to run their systems all on open source in order to have an in-person event.
Bandwidth is definitely a big concern, but another one is the backend event- organizer-oriented stuff. Some of the open source approaches I've seen are basically "scheduled video calls with chat" whereas HopIn has a lot of tools and backend stuff designed to make life easier for the people running the event, which is crucial when it's only a handful of volunteers (and even people paid to work on it don't have the event as their full-time job).
There is also the question of latency, eg, not too bad for various part of the world, especially for discussion.
There is the question of rooms and moderations, which was not great on Jitsi. It was not made for that, and while people can make it work, there is so much more for a good experience (like, having a proper concept for rooms, etc). The diagram of the architecture for FOSDEM was a bit scary, and I understand why they had to do that, but the video team is surely bigger than the number of people discussing here on the topic at the moment.
And there is the question of support. I would have been able to spin a BBB instance without too much problem (just close my eyes at the fact this requires a older version of Ubuntu...), but with 2 sysadmins in RH OSPO, we already can't cover all the project we want to help (around a dozen), and we can't really be on-call for all events (for ressources reasons, and for legal reasons, weekend and night work is heavily regulated in my country) .
There may be options out there I'm not aware of that have more, but when evaluating don't forget to keep this in mind when looking at capabilities.
I heard good things about Big Blue Button, used by AFPy, the french python association, for meetups ( https://bbb.afpy.org/ ), or by a bunch of french indies hosters (see the CHATONS collective website). Or in fact, by GNOME: https://meet.gnome.org/
The AFPy pay around 20€ par month (Start-2-M-SSD at Online.net, and I looked, 80$ if hosted by Digital Ocean in the US for a equivalent 16G server). For that price, the server had no problem with 50 connections (which was the biggest meetup so far)
My partner also told me about paid hosting, used at their work, like https://www.octopuce.fr/visioconference-un-service-innovant-securise-et-libr...
Some people told that it can go to up to 100 people, and after, you need to start to load balance, with that article on Amazon: https://aws.amazon.com/fr/blogs/opensource/how-to-build-a-scalable-bigbluebu...
But it start to be pricy I guess.
Because of limitations of BBB I came today across this one (not tested):
-- Leon
On 3/8/21 12:55 PM, Rich Bowen wrote:
On 3/8/21 1:42 PM, Rich Bowen wrote:
However, I am currently working in the dark. There is no transparency into how RH OSPO conducted it's review of services. And I can't find where the feedback on things Hopin was asked to improve is.
FWIW, I *completely* disagree that you're working in the dark. If you've ever run or even attended a virtual event, you are qualified to volunteer to do this. I do it solo because I have, so far, not been successful in finding other people to step up to volunteer to do it.
And, more importantly, it's your community as much as it is mine, and you have the authority to make these decisions too. The only reason that I make these decisions unilaterally is that I'm being paid by Red Hat to do so, and my calls for volunteers have gone largely unanswered.
The ideal situation for me would be to find volunteers to do every task that I currently do - newsletters, events, social media, SIG report wrangling, etc, etc, etc - and then I could just drink scotch and watch other people get stuff done.
OK .. you got me at the drink scotch .. I volunteer to take that job off your hands so you can do more of the other stuff :)
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Fabian Arrotin -
Johnny Hughes -
Julien Pivotto -
Leon Fauster -
Marko Bevc -
Matthew Miller -
Michael Scherer -
redbaronbrowser -
Rich Bowen