Hi.
Repository policy will define how new ecosystem works, so I thought throwing in few suggestions and see what can be applied.
Will one of CentOS variants/SiGs also include something like Desktop/Laptop/Workstation variant that will provide out-of-the-box EPEL and ElRepo packages, mostly drivers? I see lack of (network) drivers on installaion DVD as a main problem for newbies that chose CentOS as their workstation.
Something in line with CentOS + ElRepo drivers on the same DVD + current release/.repo packages for EPEL, and maybe other 3rd party repositories.
I am trying to image how this would be best to execute, and the first thing that comes to mind is this:
1. yum-plugin-priorities should become mandatory for all CentOS Variants including Base distro.
2. All .repo files should have "Enabled=" and "Priority=" lines for every repository, so it is easier for a user (or SiGs) to set things up as he likes it.
3. There should be debate and consensus (with 3rd party repositories!) how to decide which priority numbers will be assigned to which repository (including base/os and others from current CentOS project) so that that repository system in EL ecosystem is much easier for re-purposing of the already installed systems. Priority for CentOS-Core should be enough to insert 2 repositories above it, and system should use rounded numbers (10,20,30,40 or better 20, 40, 60, 80) for repositories, so there is room to insert additional repositories when/if they appear.
The way I see it, there can be two paths to building Variants.
* First is to create separate (mostly symlinked) repositories for each Variant.
* Second is to use priorities wisely so that packages that need to replace ones from CentOS-Core are placed to a repository that has higher priority (lower number) in "Priority=" line. So if you want to convert CentOS-Core system to CentOS-Desk you only need to ADD centos-desk-release package and update the system.
I think second path is much better for 3rd party repositories that will provide things that are not opensource like non-opensource codecs (gstreamer, vlc, ...) without a need for complicated editig of .repo files. Biggest benefit from this will be for newbies that are currently frustrated with lengthy process and rather chose Debian based systems like Ubuntu and Mint for their first Linux distros. Consequence is once they learn Debian way they are not really interested to additionally learn CentOS/RHEL way to run CentOS servers. As a person that is some 5 years in newbie support of CentOS/RHEL (currently main admin on official CentOS Facebook group with 6.000 members), main problem to attracting newbies/future admins is complicated addition of Desktop packages via 3rd party repositories. Sometimes I even give up on explaining total newbie how to add all those extra repositories.
4. Tool for easier management of various repositories should be developed/adjusted existing? so that newbie from GUI (or CLI) can move individual repositories up/down and turn them on/off to adjust them as they see fit, then save various options as profiles (some made by CentOS Project?) and easily switch them (or temporary apply them for current terminal?) to accomplish various tasks. Yum devs could probably help with this.
5. There should be additional "Downloaded" repository that would carry latest packages that do not have their own yum reposiroties like VirtualBox, LibreOffice, Skype, shorewall, flash, etc. I believe an arrangement with providers of those binaries could be achieved for themselves to upload latest versions so users are able to installed them without need to download and apply them manually.
Same method could maybe be used to carry a subset of some other repositories, provided as-is, like latest Firefox/Thunderbird from Remi repository for those that do not care about compliance to standards of government datacenters (or whatever it is called).
A mechanism for approval of those packages can be carefully designed, but I think they are also an important part of Desktop userbase.
At the moment, "downloaded" section in my repository caries about 200 packages manually downloaded (or copied from) from other places, like codecs with accompanying requirements etc. Even tho I do not update them very often, I have them on-hand when I install new system, just a yum command away.
On 01/10/2014 01:24 AM, Ljubomir Ljubojevic wrote:
Hi.
Repository policy will define how new ecosystem works, so I thought throwing in few suggestions and see what can be applied.
Will one of CentOS variants/SiGs also include something like Desktop/Laptop/Workstation variant that will provide out-of-the-box EPEL and ElRepo packages, mostly drivers? I see lack of (network) drivers on installaion DVD as a main problem for newbies that chose CentOS as their workstation.
Something in line with CentOS + ElRepo drivers on the same DVD + current release/.repo packages for EPEL, and maybe other 3rd party repositories.
I am trying to image how this would be best to execute, and the first thing that comes to mind is this:
- yum-plugin-priorities should become mandatory for all CentOS Variants
including Base distro.
[..]
IActually a saner and less prone to surprises approach is to rely on exclude= and includepkgs=
On 01/10/2014 02:18 AM, Manuel Wolfshant wrote:
On 01/10/2014 01:24 AM, Ljubomir Ljubojevic wrote:
- yum-plugin-priorities should become mandatory for all CentOS Variants
including Base distro.
[..]
IActually a saner and less prone to surprises approach is to rely on exclude= and includepkgs=
Try to explain that to a 50-year old woman that only wants to listen to her MP3 collection ;-)
On 01/10/2014 03:31 AM, Ljubomir Ljubojevic wrote:
On 01/10/2014 02:18 AM, Manuel Wolfshant wrote:
On 01/10/2014 01:24 AM, Ljubomir Ljubojevic wrote:
- yum-plugin-priorities should become mandatory for all CentOS Variants
including Base distro.
[..]
IActually a saner and less prone to surprises approach is to rely on exclude= and includepkgs=
Try to explain that to a 50-year old woman that only wants to listen to her MP3 collection ;-)
I guess I did not explain my idea well enough.
I am not opposed in any way in including references to the needed 3party repos and by matter of consequence, 3rd party packages. What I am trying to say is that instead of relying on priorities which are very often creating issues ( the conflicts between EPEL and rpmforge being notorious ) , you should rely on the exclude/includepkgs system and fetch exactly the packages that you need and make sure nothing else gets downloaded/included/installed.
On 01/10/2014 02:47 AM, Manuel Wolfshant wrote:
On 01/10/2014 03:31 AM, Ljubomir Ljubojevic wrote:
On 01/10/2014 02:18 AM, Manuel Wolfshant wrote:
On 01/10/2014 01:24 AM, Ljubomir Ljubojevic wrote:
- yum-plugin-priorities should become mandatory for all CentOS Variants
including Base distro.
[..]
IActually a saner and less prone to surprises approach is to rely on exclude= and includepkgs=
Try to explain that to a 50-year old woman that only wants to listen to her MP3 collection ;-)
I guess I did not explain my idea well enough.
I am not opposed in any way in including references to the needed 3party repos and by matter of consequence, 3rd party packages. What I am trying to say is that instead of relying on priorities which are very often creating issues ( the conflicts between EPEL and rpmforge being notorious ) , you should rely on the exclude/includepkgs system and fetch exactly the packages that you need and make sure nothing else gets downloaded/included/installed.
I have my own repository for last 5-6 years with mirrors of all major repositories and few separated repositories with downloaded, compiled, test, etc. packages. I have used exclude= but it is not as flexible as creating separate repository with only selected packages from other repos. At various times packages from different repositories might be used. My choice was to set priority of EPEL higher then RepoForge, so every duplicated package was only used from EPEL, and I could still use any other Repoforge package. It is same with my own repo, I gave it a highest priority. All I need to do to add new package to my repo and it will automatically be used in stead of package in repositories with lower priorities. No need to edit .repo file of every user for every new packet added.
My line of thinking is that every SiG will create it's own repository (or more) and with repositories with priorities all they need to do ever is to put needed packages in repository and users only to install the package.
-
Ljubomir Ljubojevic -
Manuel Wolfshant