On Fri, 2009-10-02 at 14:47 +0100, Karanbir Singh wrote:
On 10/02/2009 02:44 PM, Phil Schaffner wrote:
I've used the LiveCD tools to produce LiveDVD images with GNOME/KDE
(and
extra drivers + multimedia - which brings up the LiveCD-plus
discussions
from some time back as well - but that should be another thread).
Would
there be any interest in a LiveDVD offering?
sounds like a good candidate for centos-devel list :)
On Fri, 2009-10-02 at 09:59 -0400, Patrice Guay wrote:
Phil Schaffner wrote:
Any progress on adding persistence?
Persistence was added in livecd-tools 0.15. With the move from 0.13 to 0.14, I'm getting closer to it but I am not there yet. The move from 0.13 to 0.14 required several patches and testing. The same will certainly apply for 0.14 to 0.15. I could use some help :)
Patrice,
Switching to -devel per Karanbir's suggestion. What help do you need on getting persistence working, or on LiveCD development in general?
All,
Is there interest in a LiveDVD with more functionality than will fit on a CD? Perhaps "full desktop/office/productivity/multimedia" GNOME and/or KDE versions?
How about LiveCDplus (or LiveDVDplus) as discussed in earlier threads? Perhaps add drivers and/or firmware for common Wifi cards from RPMforge and/or ELRepo? Multimedia add-ons? Obviously there may be licensing or other issues depending on what is added. One possibility could be finding another site to host the images - as in Omega for Fedora. http://www.linux-mag.com/cache/7450/1.html
Should the LiveCD tools be in a centos.org repo?
Speaking of the tools - a bit OT... In my testing while writing http://wiki.centos.org/HowTos/InstallFromUSBkey I found the centos syslinux not to work (could not find the kernel when booting from USB), while the livecd version did. Comments or insight on this issue would be appreciated. Could not find any bug reports in either the CentOS bug tracker or upstream on the problem.
Phil
Phil Schaffner wrote:
What help do you need on getting persistence working, or on LiveCD development in general?
For the persistence feature, I am looking for a set of patches that apply for the current livecd-tools package. I am currently comparing livecd-tools 015 and 014. Since the persistence feature was added in the 015 version, I will try to extract the required patches from the differences between both versions. Any help on this front would be appreciated.
Is there interest in a LiveDVD with more functionality than will fit on a CD? Perhaps "full desktop/office/productivity/multimedia" GNOME and/or KDE versions?
If you have a kickstart file ready with such functionalities, publishing it on the LiveCD trac website would be the first step. Adding a documentation page explaining how to build such a LiveCD and what are its benefits would come next.
Should the LiveCD tools be in a centos.org repo?
I definitely think so. The tools are currently hosted on my own website. It works but putting these packages on an official CentOS repository would be better.
-- Patrice
Patrice Guay wrote:
Phil Schaffner wrote:
What help do you need on getting persistence working, or on LiveCD development in general?
For the persistence feature, I am looking for a set of patches that apply for the current livecd-tools package. I am currently comparing livecd-tools 015 and 014. Since the persistence feature was added in the 015 version, I will try to extract the required patches from the differences between both versions. Any help on this front would be appreciated.
I'm here, and the author of the relevant feature. Though I won't be online much in the next 24 hours, but after that I'm sure I can get you going.
Also, if I could convince you to squeeze in another ~100kb package into the LiveCD, it would allow an experimental 'rebootless installation' in addition to the traditional and stable rebootful kind provided by anaconda.
It's gotten quite a bit of early bug shakeout in the fedora-12 derived SugarOnAStick development builds.
Is there interest in a LiveDVD with more functionality than will fit on a CD? Perhaps "full desktop/office/productivity/multimedia" GNOME and/or KDE versions?
+1
Cheers,
-dmc
Douglas McClendon wrote:
Patrice Guay wrote:
Phil Schaffner wrote:
What help do you need on getting persistence working, or on LiveCD development in general?
For the persistence feature, I am looking for a set of patches that apply for the current livecd-tools package. I am currently comparing livecd-tools 015 and 014. Since the persistence feature was added in the 015 version, I will try to extract the required patches from the differences between both versions. Any help on this front would be appreciated.
I'm here, and the author of the relevant feature. Though I won't be online much in the next 24 hours, but after that I'm sure I can get you going.
Your help would be appreciated.
Also, if I could convince you to squeeze in another ~100kb package into the LiveCD, it would allow an experimental 'rebootless installation' in addition to the traditional and stable rebootful kind provided by anaconda.
The current CentOS LiveCD doesn't support installation from the live media. This feature requires a newer version of the anaconda package than the one provided by the CentOS 5 official tree (liveinst binary). Since CentOS is supporting its packages for 7 years, introducing a new version of a critial package such as anaconda and providing support for it would be unrealistic.
However, I tested and documented the installation from a live media: https://projects.centos.org/trac/livecd/wiki/InstallToHardDrive
Maybe this feature could be added to the 'unsupported' branch of the CentOS LiveCD project.
-- Patrice
Patrice Guay wrote:
Douglas McClendon wrote:
Patrice Guay wrote:
Phil Schaffner wrote:
What help do you need on getting persistence working, or on LiveCD development in general?
For the persistence feature, I am looking for a set of patches that apply for the current livecd-tools package. I am currently comparing livecd-tools 015 and 014. Since the persistence feature was added in the 015 version, I will try to extract the required patches from the differences between both versions. Any help on this front would be appreciated.
Ok. I'll take a look at the livecd-tools here-
https://projects.centos.org/trac/livecd/wiki/GetToolset
and at the fedora 14->15 diff, and see if I can't put something together for you.
Also, if I could convince you to squeeze in another ~100kb package into the LiveCD, it would allow an experimental 'rebootless installation' in addition to the traditional and stable rebootful kind provided by anaconda.
The current CentOS LiveCD doesn't support installation from the live media. This feature requires a newer version of the anaconda package than the one provided by the CentOS 5 official tree (liveinst binary). Since CentOS is supporting its packages for 7 years, introducing a new version of a critial package such as anaconda and providing support for it would be unrealistic.
However, I tested and documented the installation from a live media: https://projects.centos.org/trac/livecd/wiki/InstallToHardDrive
Maybe this feature could be added to the 'unsupported' branch of the CentOS LiveCD project.
Makes sense. Are there any plans to provide a download/torrent of such a spin so users don't have to build it themselves?
-dmc
On 14/10/09 21:14, Douglas McClendon wrote:
Maybe this feature could be added to the 'unsupported' branch of the CentOS LiveCD project.
Makes sense. Are there any plans to provide a download/torrent of such a spin so users don't have to build it themselves?
Can be done - but would need some thinking around the implications / fallouts from there.
- KB
Douglas McClendon wrote:
Patrice Guay wrote:
Douglas McClendon wrote:
Patrice Guay wrote:
Phil Schaffner wrote:
What help do you need on getting persistence working, or on LiveCD development in general?
For the persistence feature, I am looking for a set of patches that apply for the current livecd-tools package. I am currently comparing livecd-tools 015 and 014. Since the persistence feature was added in the 015 version, I will try to extract the required patches from the differences between both versions. Any help on this front would be appreciated.
Ok. I'll take a look at the livecd-tools here-
https://projects.centos.org/trac/livecd/wiki/GetToolset
and at the fedora 14->15 diff, and see if I can't put something together for you.
The bleeding edge first pass bits are here-
http://filteredperception.org/downloads/overlay/20091027/livecd-tools-014-6d...
I've successfully tested something that either is equivalent to that build, or very very close. But I'll put out a really tested srpm in a couple more days, which hopefully will also have the useful separate-filesystem persistenthome feature, as well as the global persistence incorporated here.
Then if I get really ambitious I may also aim for a version of liveusb-creator that supports setting up persistence and/or zyx-liveinstaller even on the existing 5.4 iso. (and a couple other things...)
Note that in the srpm above I really didn't have to much other than cherrypicking git patches from livecd-tools and mkinitrd. For the latter I just tweaked the spec patch lines to apply the mkinitrd patches which are all against the file mkliveinitrd to mayflower. mkliveinitrd is just mayflower in another place, it wasn't until the dracut switchover that things really got rewritten.
-dmc
Douglas McClendon wrote:
Patrice Guay wrote:
Phil Schaffner wrote:
What help do you need on getting persistence working, or on LiveCD development in general?
For the persistence feature, I am looking for a set of patches that apply for the current livecd-tools package. I am currently comparing livecd-tools 015 and 014. Since the persistence feature was added in the 015 version, I will try to extract the required patches from the differences between both versions. Any help on this front would be appreciated.
The bleeding edge first pass bits are here-
http://filteredperception.org/downloads/overlay/20091027/livecd-tools-014-6d...
I've successfully tested something that either is equivalent to that build, or very very close. But I'll put out a really tested srpm in a couple more days, which hopefully will also have the useful separate-filesystem persistenthome feature, as well as the global persistence incorporated here.
I will take a look at this updated version of livecd-tools. To incorporate this version into the current livecd-tools project, I will explode your source RPM, examine and pick the relevant patches.
In the future, you can directly submit your patches for the CentOS LiveCD by opening a ticket on the project page: https://projects.centos.org/trac/livecd/
Thanks for your help,
-- Patrice
Patrice Guay wrote:
Douglas McClendon wrote:
Patrice Guay wrote:
Phil Schaffner wrote: > What help do you need on > getting persistence working, or on LiveCD development in general? > For the persistence feature, I am looking for a set of patches that apply for the current livecd-tools package. I am currently comparing livecd-tools 015 and 014. Since the persistence feature was added in the 015 version, I will try to extract the required patches from the differences between both versions. Any help on this front would be appreciated.
The bleeding edge first pass bits are here-
http://filteredperception.org/downloads/overlay/20091027/livecd-tools-014-6d...
I've successfully tested something that either is equivalent to that build, or very very close. But I'll put out a really tested srpm in a couple more days, which hopefully will also have the useful separate-filesystem persistenthome feature, as well as the global persistence incorporated here.
I will take a look at this updated version of livecd-tools. To incorporate this version into the current livecd-tools project, I will explode your source RPM, examine and pick the relevant patches.
Cool. I think I made it pretty simple, just the additions of the patches. The patches themselves were all just vanilla downloads from the gitweb 'raw' links. I believe I only put relevant patches in. Or rather, I think I took all the patches up to the mayflower split because I knew they would apply, then after that only took relevant, or what seemed like really useful patches.
Also, my test in progress of those exact bits just succeeded, so you can take that as is. There might be one or two patches (reset_overlay) which are in there, and postdate the persistenthome ones that are also desirable. But I'd guess applying just the one or two out of order won't interfere much.
Now if only I could get some other devicemapper developers to buy into my theory of having dm-snapshot intelligently respond to the new discard request mechanism. Then this form of LiveUSB persistence would be much more usable. I.e. currently your overlay file resources can and do get drained by created and deleted files that the block layer at the moment doesn't handle as efficiently as possible. This is also the reason why you might want /home on a seperately mounted, not-dm-shapshotted loopback file ala the persistenthome feature.
Cheers,
-dmc
Douglas McClendon wrote:
Patrice Guay wrote:
Douglas McClendon wrote:
Patrice Guay wrote: > For the persistence feature, I am looking for a set of > patches that apply for the current livecd-tools package. > Any help on this front would be appreciated.
The bleeding edge first pass bits are here-
http://filteredperception.org/downloads/overlay/20091027/livecd-tools-014-6d...
I've successfully tested something that either is equivalent to that build, or very very close. But I'll put out a really tested srpm in a couple more days, which hopefully will also have the useful separate-filesystem persistenthome feature, as well as the global persistence incorporated here.
I will take a look at this updated version of livecd-tools. To incorporate this version into the current livecd-tools project, I will explode your source RPM, examine and pick the relevant patches.
The patches themselves were all just vanilla downloads from the gitweb 'raw' links. I believe I only put relevant patches in. Or rather, I think I took all the patches up to the mayflower split because I knew they would apply, then after that only took relevant, or what seemed like really useful patches.
[...] LiveUSB persistence [could] be much more usable. I.e. currently your overlay file resources can and do get drained by created and deleted files that the block layer at the moment doesn't handle as efficiently as possible. This is also the reason why you might want /home on a seperately mounted, not-dm-shapshotted loopback file ala the persistenthome feature.
I updated the livecd-tools package from version 014-5 to 014-7. This update introduces new interesting features: - adding the persistence feature (persistent overlay) - thanks to Douglas McClendon - fixing /usr/bin/livecd-iso-to-pxeboot script: was broken in the previous versions of livecd-tools 014 - creating a minimal /dev instead of bind mounting the host's /dev
You will need to recreate a LiveCD ISO image with livecd-tools 014-7 in order to use the new '--overlay-size-mb' switch of the livecd-iso-to-disk utility. If you use an older LiveCD ISO image, the overlay will be ignored.
See https://projects.centos.org/trac/livecd/wiki/ImageFlash for instructions about creating a LiveUSB media with a persistent overlay.
-- Patrice
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Patrice Guay wrote on 10/13/2009 01:31 PM:
Phil Schaffner wrote:
...
Is there interest in a LiveDVD with more functionality than will fit on a CD? Perhaps "full desktop/office/productivity/multimedia" GNOME and/or KDE versions?
If you have a kickstart file ready with such functionalities, publishing it on the LiveCD trac website would be the first step. Adding a documentation page explaining how to build such a LiveCD and what are its benefits would come next.
I have a kickstart file that worked to create a DVD image with a lot more components. I'll run through the process again with a bit more thought before putting it out in public. Will also give some thought to writing up the benefits.
What I was really wondering is if such a LiveDVD image might be distributed by CentOS like the LiveCD, but allowing more functionality by removing the restrictions imposed by the size of a CD.
Phil
Phil Schaffner wrote:
Patrice Guay wrote on 10/13/2009 01:31 PM:
Phil Schaffner wrote:
...
Is there interest in a LiveDVD with more functionality than will fit on a CD? Perhaps "full desktop/office/productivity/multimedia" GNOME and/or KDE versions?
If you have a kickstart file ready with such functionalities, publishing it on the LiveCD trac website would be the first step. Adding a documentation page explaining how to build such a LiveCD and what are its benefits would come next.
I have a kickstart file that worked to create a DVD image with a lot more components. I'll run through the process again with a bit more thought before putting it out in public. Will also give some thought to writing up the benefits.
What I was really wondering is if such a LiveDVD image might be distributed by CentOS like the LiveCD, but allowing more functionality by removing the restrictions imposed by the size of a CD.
First, I think we should establish guidelines about what kind of LiveCD/LiveDVD image could be distributed. Since we are probably going to use the current mirrors for the distribution, we should be carefull about what pieces of software are included in the ISO images. The use of non-free software should certainly be avoided.
To prevent misuse of the distribution channels, the kickstart files for the LiveCD images must be available for review and discussion. Then, rebuilding periodically the approved ISO images and putting them on the mirrors could be automated.
-- Patrice
On 10/15/2009 09:29 AM, Patrice Guay wrote:
Phil Schaffner wrote:
Patrice Guay wrote on 10/13/2009 01:31 PM:
Phil Schaffner wrote:
...
Is there interest in a LiveDVD with more functionality than will fit on a CD? Perhaps "full desktop/office/productivity/multimedia" GNOME and/or KDE versions?
If you have a kickstart file ready with such functionalities, publishing it on the LiveCD trac website would be the first step. Adding a documentation page explaining how to build such a LiveCD and what are its benefits would come next.
I have a kickstart file that worked to create a DVD image with a lot more components. I'll run through the process again with a bit more thought before putting it out in public. Will also give some thought to writing up the benefits.
What I was really wondering is if such a LiveDVD image might be distributed by CentOS like the LiveCD, but allowing more functionality by removing the restrictions imposed by the size of a CD.
First, I think we should establish guidelines about what kind of LiveCD/LiveDVD image could be distributed. Since we are probably going to use the current mirrors for the distribution, we should be carefull about what pieces of software are included in the ISO images. The use of non-free software should certainly be avoided.
To prevent misuse of the distribution channels, the kickstart files for the LiveCD images must be available for review and discussion. Then, rebuilding periodically the approved ISO images and putting them on the mirrors could be automated.
Right ... I think we must be insistent that we do not include things that can not be included in Fedora and/or EPEL (nonfree) ... and personally, I don't like anything that we do not maintain the SRPMS for already in CentOS (either plus/extras/os). We can discuss adding things not in CentOS to the DVD ... but must be careful.
The goal (i think) is providing a DVD/CD with more capability, but not a new distro.
Johnny Hughes wrote on 10/15/2009 01:48 PM:
On 10/15/2009 09:29 AM, Patrice Guay wrote:
...
To prevent misuse of the distribution channels, the kickstart files for the LiveCD images must be available for review and discussion. Then, rebuilding periodically the approved ISO images and putting them on the mirrors could be automated.
Right ... I think we must be insistent that we do not include things that can not be included in Fedora and/or EPEL (nonfree) ... and personally, I don't like anything that we do not maintain the SRPMS for already in CentOS (either plus/extras/os). We can discuss adding things not in CentOS to the DVD ... but must be careful.
The goal (i think) is providing a DVD/CD with more capability, but not a new distro.
Precisely what I had in mind. Strictly CentOS packages, except for things like those in the [livecd] repo that are required to build it.
OTOH, there might still be an audience for "plus" version[s] with things like iwl3945-firmware or [elrepo] wireless drivers, [rpmforge] multimedia, etc. Such extended versions would obviously (to me) not be available through CentOS channels, but might be pointed to from the Wiki in the same way 3rd party repos are, if somebody else was interested in hosting them.
Phil
Phil Schaffner wrote:
[...] OTOH, there might still be an audience for "plus" version[s] with things like iwl3945-firmware or [elrepo] wireless drivers,
+1000 for including wireless drivers. It's pain in the a*s to add them on a laptop, booted from a live disk in an environment where you have no functional wired connections.
And including the needed stuff for accessing NTFS partitions would be nice, too (think retrieving data from boxes where Windows fails to boot ). But I can live without this, it's a just a nice to have..
-
Douglas McClendon -
Johnny Hughes -
Karanbir Singh -
Manuel Wolfshant -
Patrice Guay -
Phil Schaffner -
Phil Schaffner