hi guys,
I was wondering if we can have a 45 min to 60 min chat on voice regarding the language subsites that have been worked on / planned and also been setup to some extent.
There is content on the wiki that sort of sum's up most of the effort that has gone in - but I think it would be good for all of us if the following people were to sync up once:
- Infrastructure - Artwork - French People - Spanish People - German People - Portuguese ( Brazil ) People
We dont actually have a web team at the moment, but the Infra team should be a good representative of that side of things.
And anyone else who wants to come along ( specially if more Language groups than mentioned above want to get involved at this stage ).
CentOS has a voip setup in place, that also has some dial in numbers for the US, UK and Germany - and of-course other people can join over voip from anywhere in the world. We will try and get some instructions on howto achieve this online well in advance.
I am going to propose having this conversation on the 18th Nov at 1945 UTC.
Karanbir Singh wrote:
hi guys,
I was wondering if we can have a 45 min to 60 min chat on voice regarding the language subsites that have been worked on / planned and also been setup to some extent.
There is content on the wiki that sort of sum's up most of the effort that has gone in - but I think it would be good for all of us if the following people were to sync up once:
- Infrastructure
- Artwork
- French People
- Spanish People
- German People
- Portuguese ( Brazil ) People
We dont actually have a web team at the moment, but the Infra team should be a good representative of that side of things.
And anyone else who wants to come along ( specially if more Language groups than mentioned above want to get involved at this stage ).
CentOS has a voip setup in place, that also has some dial in numbers for the US, UK and Germany - and of-course other people can join over voip from anywhere in the world. We will try and get some instructions on howto achieve this online well in advance.
I am going to propose having this conversation on the 18th Nov at 1945 UTC.
Good idea. I've myself another meeting that day but i'd normally be able to jump in the conversation later ( ~20:15 UTC)
Dear Karan,
We dont actually have a web team at the moment, but the Infra team should be a good representative of that side of things.
And anyone else who wants to come along ( specially if more Language groups than mentioned above want to get involved at this stage ).
CentOS has a voip setup in place, that also has some dial in numbers for the US, UK and Germany - and of-course other people can join over voip from anywhere in the world. We will try and get some instructions on howto achieve this online well in advance.
I am going to propose having this conversation on the 18th Nov at 1945 UTC.
Would be okay for me, too.
Best Regards Marcus
OK for me too.
On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 10:35 AM, Marcus Moeller mail@marcus-moeller.de wrote:
Dear Karan,
We dont actually have a web team at the moment, but the Infra team should be a good representative of that side of things.
And anyone else who wants to come along ( specially if more Language groups than mentioned above want to get involved at this stage ).
CentOS has a voip setup in place, that also has some dial in numbers for the US, UK and Germany - and of-course other people can join over voip from anywhere in the world. We will try and get some instructions on howto achieve this online well in advance.
I am going to propose having this conversation on the 18th Nov at 1945 UTC.
Would be okay for me, too.
Best Regards Marcus _______________________________________________ CentOS-devel mailing list CentOS-devel@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
Karanbir Singh wrote:
hi guys,
<snip>
CentOS has a voip setup in place, that also has some dial in numbers for the US, UK and Germany - and of-course other people can join over voip from anywhere in the world. We will try and get some instructions on howto achieve this online well in advance.
As the meeting is scheduled for tomorrow, can we have details about how to connect , etc ?
On 11/17/2009 07:32 PM, Fabian Arrotin wrote:
As the meeting is scheduled for tomorrow, can we have details about how to connect , etc ?
make sure you have functional voip ( as in you should be able to register with a voip service already - and be able to call a voip id like : <number>@voip.centos.org
the exact conf code / number will be posted to #centos-devel on irc.freenode.net an hour before the call is to take place.
We do have dial in pstn numbers for the UK and the US - so if you need or prefer those ( they are al regional numbers, not toll free ) ping me there in #centos-devel and I will pass them onto you.
On 02/11/09 12:17, Karanbir Singh wrote:
I am going to propose having this conversation on the 18th Nov at 1945 UTC.
People interested in this meeting should drop into #centos-devel /irc.freenode.net and get details on where to connect. I am in there now ( On the irc channel, and the conf room )
- KB
Hi,
The meeting last evening was mostly fruitful. There were 4 major points that came through:
1) Do we want the language specific content to go in as <lang>.centos.org with forums and a small portal behind each one of those ( like fr.centos.org ) - or is it more userfriendly to have the resources abstracted out and each language specific content being marked in different namespace from the english content - eg. wiki.centos.org and wiki.centos.org/es . This would imply a forums.centos.org comes up and the spanish specific content is held at forums.centos.org/es
2) A unified login setup is considered fairly high value, so one username/password would work across all the various *.centos.org sites. There are a few different ways to achieve this, however only when the user facing decisions are made will we look into this so as to not waste time with options that are not usable or will not be usable in the final setup.
3) We want to ideally only have one instance of any bit of software, and have that support the languages natively. If there isnt any support for multiple languages - consider what is involved in bringing that language support in.
4) Most of the people who attended the talk where people who dont themselves either use the forums or know much about them and how they are used - so the idea came up to put together a set of questions, and then have the existing forum users and list users provide some feedback. Exactly what these questions need to be, is something that needs working on. A wiki page will get setup and we can all put in suggestions.
During the meeting it was agreed that we would discuss these points here in the lists so as to get some traction around them. And then have another 45 min chat[1] in a few weeks time to recap on development and also to finalise what questions need to be in the questionnaire.
- KB
[1]: so if you are 40 min late, dont be surprised if everyone else leaves after 5 minutes :)
On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 10:23 AM, Karanbir Singh mail-lists@karan.org wrote:
Hi,
The meeting last evening was mostly fruitful. There were 4 major points that came through:
- Do we want the language specific content to go in as
<lang>.centos.org with forums and a small portal behind each one of those ( like fr.centos.org ) - or is it more userfriendly to have the resources abstracted out and each language specific content being marked in different namespace from the english content - eg. wiki.centos.org and wiki.centos.org/es . This would imply a forums.centos.org comes up and the spanish specific content is held at forums.centos.org/es
- A unified login setup is considered fairly high value, so one
username/password would work across all the various *.centos.org sites. There are a few different ways to achieve this, however only when the user facing decisions are made will we look into this so as to not waste time with options that are not usable or will not be usable in the final setup.
1 and 2 are easily done using Drupal. I think that either options have their benefits and we are used to encounter both scenarios in a dozen of websites over there.
For users that know the direct site, they will remember the direct link to the language specify website. For others, the entry point will be www.centos.org that will have a list of language specific websites or even could redirect the user to the properly website based on users' web browser language settings. For the last option, should be default to all language specific websites have a drop-down list containing all language specific websites available.
- We want to ideally only have one instance of any bit of software, and
have that support the languages natively. If there isnt any support for multiple languages - consider what is involved in bringing that language support in.
Again, Drupal has all the resources and modules to all this internationalization contents. Users are first redirect to the website based on the browser settings and could set the preferred language into their profile.
For news and most of the contents, the same content have place for all the necessary translations, defaulting to english when the translation is not ready. It seem to me excellent for the primary page, news and general contents. For forums I have tested nothing yet.
- Most of the people who attended the talk where people who dont
themselves either use the forums or know much about them and how they are used - so the idea came up to put together a set of questions, and then have the existing forum users and list users provide some feedback. Exactly what these questions need to be, is something that needs working on. A wiki page will get setup and we can all put in suggestions.
I have done little use of the forums.
During the meeting it was agreed that we would discuss these points here in the lists so as to get some traction around them. And then have another 45 min chat[1] in a few weeks time to recap on development and also to finalise what questions need to be in the questionnaire.
I think I was in [1] :)
- KB
[1]: so if you are 40 min late, dont be surprised if everyone else leaves after 5 minutes :) _______________________________________________ CentOS-devel mailing list CentOS-devel@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
On 11/20/2009 12:55 AM, Cleber Souza wrote:
1 and 2 are easily done using Drupal.
At this time, were not really interested in even considering what software is to be used or how its going to be used. The focus really *does* need to be on what the end result would look like along with some user stories, we can then work back from there and work out what needs done and how.
On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 4:38 AM, Karanbir Singh mail-lists@karan.org wrote:
On 11/20/2009 12:55 AM, Cleber Souza wrote:
1 and 2 are easily done using Drupal.
At this time, were not really interested in even considering what
I think "we" should be interested in alternatives. A "WebsiteVer2" should be a big deal. A great "look". Hell, even a "marketing tool". So far, is it more than a forum conversion?
I realize I'm not part of the dev "inner circle", but I've been in open and non-open source long enough to see when a project should be reviewed for better long-term benefits. But, that's just "me".
jerry
Hi Jerry,
On 11/23/2009 10:21 PM, Jerry Amundson wrote:
1 and 2 are easily done using Drupal.
At this time, were not really interested in even considering what
I think "we" should be interested in alternatives. A "WebsiteVer2" should be a big deal. A great "look". Hell, even a "marketing tool". So far, is it more than a forum conversion?
You seem confused, and I think also need to actually go through whats been said and about what.
The bit that you seem to have read and completely missed out is that were not interested in what software is going to be used - lets focus on what needs to be done, built around some user stories and then see what software meets the requirements.
The brain-dead idea that we seem to live with, often, in the open source world is to shoehorn a user experience into the software-of-the-day. Lets not try and go down that route.
Is this clear enough ?
On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 4:07 AM, Karanbir Singh mail-lists@karan.org wrote:
Hi Jerry,
Hello!
On 11/23/2009 10:21 PM, Jerry Amundson wrote:
1 and 2 are easily done using Drupal.
At this time, were not really interested in even considering what
I think "we" should be interested in alternatives. A "WebsiteVer2" should be a big deal. A great "look". Hell, even a "marketing tool". So far, is it more than a forum conversion?
You seem confused, and I think also need to actually go through whats been said and about what.
You're right, of course, so I did, starting with this thread.
The bit that you seem to have read and completely missed out is that were not interested in what software is going to be used - lets focus on what needs to be done, built around some user stories and then see what software meets the requirements.
Yes, I agree to those points and didn't "miss" them. The scope described above makes sense.
The brain-dead idea that we seem to live with, often, in the open source world is to shoehorn a user experience into the software-of-the-day. Lets not try and go down that route.
OK. The following bit gives the impression, however, that such a route has been partly "mapped out": On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 1:58 AM, Marcus Moeller mail@marcus-moeller.de wrote:
I guess the question is not about which software should be used. There has been an evaluation process in the past: http://wiki.centos.org/WebsiteVer2/forums
and migration scripts from new-bb to phpbb are already available and ready for testing: http://wiki.centos.org/WebsiteVer2/forums/newbb_to_phpbb
Blech! Now I see - I interpreted the existence of "migration scripts" to mean that phpBB was decided as the forum platform, however they are there for the eval process also.
Sorry for the noise, jerry
Hi Jerry,
On 11/24/2009 09:36 PM, Jerry Amundson wrote:
were not interested in what software is going to be used - lets focus on what needs to be done, built around some user stories and then see what software meets the requirements.
Yes, I agree to those points and didn't "miss" them. The scope described above makes sense.
One thing that came up on the phone conf the other day was that we might be going about this whole process the wrong way and what we might want to do - need not really reflect what makes life easier for the users and gets a good knowledge base built around existing resources.
The other thing is that while forums were a big part of the language-subsites-issue, none of the people on the conf were really forum users.
Which is why it was decided to come up with a set of questions we cna put out there for everyone to answer, and then have a recap meeting in a few weeks time.
On 19 Nov 2009, at 12:23, Karanbir Singh wrote:
- Most of the people who attended the talk where people who dont
themselves either use the forums or know much about them and how they are used - so the idea came up to put together a set of questions, and then have the existing forum users and list users provide some feedback. Exactly what these questions need to be, is something that needs working on. A wiki page will get setup and we can all put in suggestions.
Not to over extend my welcome, but I'm still subscribed to the mailing lists from the last discussions on forums/site. Still active on the Simple Machines Team producing SMF, but I could probably help out with general forum "stuff" with whatever choice is taken. Can probably answer most questions on usage and trends.
-Graeme
Hi all.
- Most of the people who attended the talk where people who dont
themselves either use the forums or know much about them and how they are used - so the idea came up to put together a set of questions, and then have the existing forum users and list users provide some feedback. Exactly what these questions need to be, is something that needs working on. A wiki page will get setup and we can all put in suggestions.
Not to over extend my welcome, but I'm still subscribed to the mailing lists from the last discussions on forums/site. Still active on the Simple Machines Team producing SMF, but I could probably help out with general forum "stuff" with whatever choice is taken. Can probably answer most questions on usage and trends.
I guess the question is not about which software should be used. There has been an evaluation process in the past:
http://wiki.centos.org/WebsiteVer2/forums
and migration scripts from new-bb to phpbb are already available and ready for testing:
http://wiki.centos.org/WebsiteVer2/forums/newbb_to_phpbb
The question is how a setup should look like, and imho something like:
forums.centos.org - holding the main english forums and forums.centos.org/$LANG for language specific forums
is a good solution and would match the actual wiki layout.
Besides that, I still think a section within the main forum (like French CentOS support) and a multilingual forum backend should fit in first place. If the demand is getting higher a real subforum in forum of forums.centos.org/$LANG could be created.
Best Regards Marcus
On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 5:58 AM, Marcus Moeller mail@marcus-moeller.de wrote:
Hi all.
- Most of the people who attended the talk where people who dont
themselves either use the forums or know much about them and how they are used - so the idea came up to put together a set of questions, and then have the existing forum users and list users provide some feedback. Exactly what these questions need to be, is something that needs working on. A wiki page will get setup and we can all put in suggestions.
Not to over extend my welcome, but I'm still subscribed to the mailing lists from the last discussions on forums/site. Still active on the Simple Machines Team producing SMF, but I could probably help out with general forum "stuff" with whatever choice is taken. Can probably answer most questions on usage and trends.
I guess the question is not about which software should be used. There has been an evaluation process in the past:
http://wiki.centos.org/WebsiteVer2/forums
and migration scripts from new-bb to phpbb are already available and ready for testing:
Sorry, I saw this link in the past. My intended was just to cite a tool that solve by itself all the questions about internationalization.
The question is how a setup should look like, and imho something like:
forums.centos.org - holding the main english forums and forums.centos.org/$LANG for language specific forums
I personally like this kind of organization.
is a good solution and would match the actual wiki layout.
Besides that, I still think a section within the main forum (like French CentOS support) and a multilingual forum backend should fit in first place. If the demand is getting higher a real subforum in forum of forums.centos.org/$LANG could be created.
Best Regards Marcus _______________________________________________ CentOS-devel mailing list CentOS-devel@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 6:23 AM, Karanbir Singh mail-lists@karan.org wrote:
The meeting last evening was mostly fruitful. There were 4 major points that came through:
- Do we want the language specific content to go in as
<lang>.centos.org with forums and a small portal behind each one of those ( like fr.centos.org ) - or is it more userfriendly to have the resources abstracted out and each language specific content being marked in different namespace from the english content - eg. wiki.centos.org and wiki.centos.org/es . This would imply a forums.centos.org comes up and the spanish specific content is held at forums.centos.org/es
I like centos.org and *.centos.org to be english content, with non-english at *.centos.org/xx and centos.org/xx. That's leaves * open for infrastructure issues - certificates, servers, odd or legacy software, etc.
- A unified login setup is considered fairly high value, so one
username/password would work across all the various *.centos.org sites. There are a few different ways to achieve this, however only when the user facing decisions are made will we look into this so as to not waste time with options that are not usable or will not be usable in the final setup.
Good.
- We want to ideally only have one instance of any bit of software, and
have that support the languages natively. If there isnt any support for multiple languages - consider what is involved in bringing that language support in.
Yes, reasonable. A tangent which could apply here, is if there can be, or needs to be, the capability of a sort of language-wheel for *contributed* content. The example could be a wiki page that userA creates in english, then userB translates to *.centos.org/xB in his/her language... really more of a procedural/workflow item, and not tied to software capabilities though, now that I read it back. [3a]
OTOH, forums are another matter. I see most implement multi-lang as sections/categories within the single "forum" site, which of course is contrary to 1. above, and the forum model is not conducive to my language-wheel idea. But then, for this and other reasons, I'm not fond of forums anyway...
- Most of the people who attended the talk where people who dont
themselves either use the forums or know much about them and how they are used - so the idea came up to put together a set of questions, and then have the existing forum users and list users provide some feedback. Exactly what these questions need to be, is something that needs working on. A wiki page will get setup and we can all put in suggestions.
Maybe something like http://wiki.centos.org/WebsiteVer2/Feedback or whatever is chosen... no matter to me.
jerry
[3a] fr | en / \ de es
-
Cleber Souza -
Fabian Arrotin -
Graeme Spence -
Jerry Amundson -
Karanbir Singh -
Marcus Moeller