hi guys,
Based on feedback, we seem to have general consensus that getting 5.6/ to mirrors first is the way to go. However, this does not mean that work on 6.0 will stop, we will try and get the isos ready - but we might need to give the mirrors a bit of a break before releasing those as well.
I'll get a timeline in place with details after the weekend.
thanks everyone for feedback on this issue
- KB
Karanbir Singh wrote:
hi guys,
Based on feedback, we seem to have general consensus that getting 5.6/ to mirrors first is the way to go. However, this does not mean that work on 6.0 will stop, we will try and get the isos ready - but we might need to give the mirrors a bit of a break before releasing those as well.
I'll get a timeline in place with details after the weekend.
thanks everyone for feedback on this issue
I think a lot of people would also be happy with releasing .torrent's for C6 into the wild, at first for those of us monitoring this list eager to deploy C6, even if there are not much seeders. The number of people interested in this release will be great and many will become temporary seeders. I my self have 5Mbps of upload bandwidth. 20 of us can replace one 100Mbps seeder.
This approach would circumvent a wait for mirrors to settle down, so if you find your self with ready ISO's please consider releasing .torrent's even without mirrors.
Ljubomir
On 01/15/2011 02:02 PM, Ljubomir Ljubojevic wrote:
Karanbir Singh wrote:
hi guys,
Based on feedback, we seem to have general consensus that getting 5.6/ to mirrors first is the way to go. However, this does not mean that work on 6.0 will stop, we will try and get the isos ready - but we might need to give the mirrors a bit of a break before releasing those as well.
I'll get a timeline in place with details after the weekend.
thanks everyone for feedback on this issue
I think a lot of people would also be happy with releasing .torrent's for C6 into the wild, at first for those of us monitoring this list eager to deploy C6, even if there are not much seeders. The number of people interested in this release will be great and many will become temporary seeders. I my self have 5Mbps of upload bandwidth. 20 of us can replace one 100Mbps seeder.
This approach would circumvent a wait for mirrors to settle down, so if you find your self with ready ISO's please consider releasing .torrent's even without mirrors.
I have mixed feelings about having the info available via torrents but not on the mirrors themselves. I am not at all sure that a delay of 3-4-5 days until mirrors are synced is worth the cries "why , oh why, is my beloved iso available only as torrent?"
But I am willing to seed at 2-3 Mbps myself, too.
On 1/15/2011 10:08 AM, Manuel Wolfshant wrote:
On 01/15/2011 02:02 PM, Ljubomir Ljubojevic wrote:
Karanbir Singh wrote:
hi guys,
Based on feedback, we seem to have general consensus that getting 5.6/ to mirrors first is the way to go. However, this does not mean that work on 6.0 will stop, we will try and get the isos ready - but we might need to give the mirrors a bit of a break before releasing those as well.
I'll get a timeline in place with details after the weekend.
thanks everyone for feedback on this issue
I think a lot of people would also be happy with releasing .torrent's for C6 into the wild, at first for those of us monitoring this list eager to deploy C6, even if there are not much seeders. The number of people interested in this release will be great and many will become temporary seeders. I my self have 5Mbps of upload bandwidth. 20 of us can replace one 100Mbps seeder.
This approach would circumvent a wait for mirrors to settle down, so if you find your self with ready ISO's please consider releasing .torrent's even without mirrors.
I have mixed feelings about having the info available via torrents but not on the mirrors themselves. I am not at all sure that a delay of 3-4-5 days until mirrors are synced is worth the cries "why , oh why, is my beloved iso available only as torrent?"
But I am willing to seed at 2-3 Mbps myself, too.
I can seed them too at 3Mbps .
CentOS-devel mailing list CentOS-devel@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
You may also consider doing what I believe has been done on this project once or twice before. (maybe it was a different project, its been a while) When the iso is ready, put the torrent(s) out with only a 95% seed. I can seed 20Mbs 24/365 and as shown already, many of us have this kind of bandwidth to share. If 5.6 and 6 are done at the same time get 5.6 on the mirror and start seeding 6, doing this would encourage people to use the torrent to get it as early as possible and since it can't 100% done yet, many would end up seeding longer than usual waiting for the other 5%. This would take a lot of load off the mirrors and when you are happy with the mirrors, release the other 5% of the seed and put the isos on the mirrors.
zeb
On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 8:54 AM, Alessandro Ren < alessandro.ren@opservices.com.br> wrote:
On 1/15/2011 10:08 AM, Manuel Wolfshant wrote:
On 01/15/2011 02:02 PM, Ljubomir Ljubojevic wrote:
Karanbir Singh wrote:
hi guys,
Based on feedback, we seem to have general consensus that getting 5.6/ to mirrors first is the way to go. However, this does not mean that
work
on 6.0 will stop, we will try and get the isos ready - but we might
need
to give the mirrors a bit of a break before releasing those as well.
I'll get a timeline in place with details after the weekend.
thanks everyone for feedback on this issue
I think a lot of people would also be happy with releasing .torrent's for C6 into the wild, at first for those of us monitoring this list eager to deploy C6, even if there are not much seeders. The number of people interested in this release will be great and many will become temporary seeders. I my self have 5Mbps of upload bandwidth. 20 of us can replace one 100Mbps seeder.
This approach would circumvent a wait for mirrors to settle down, so if you find your self with ready ISO's please consider releasing .torrent's even without mirrors.
I have mixed feelings about having the info available via torrents but not on the mirrors themselves. I am not at all sure that a delay of 3-4-5 days until mirrors are synced is worth the cries "why , oh why, is my beloved iso available only as torrent?"
But I am willing to seed at 2-3 Mbps myself, too.
I can seed them too at 3Mbps .
CentOS-devel mailing list CentOS-devel@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
CentOS-devel mailing list CentOS-devel@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 9:03 AM, Zeb Palmer zeb@zebpalmer.com wrote:
You may also consider doing what I believe has been done on this project once or twice before. (maybe it was a different project, its been a while) When the iso is ready, put the torrent(s) out with only a 95% seed. I can seed 20Mbs 24/365 and as shown already, many of us have this kind of bandwidth to share. If 5.6 and 6 are done at the same time get 5.6 on the mirror and start seeding 6, doing this would encourage people to use the torrent to get it as early as possible and since it can't 100% done yet, many would end up seeding longer than usual waiting for the other 5%. This would take a lot of load off the mirrors and when you are happy with the mirrors, release the other 5% of the seed and put the isos on the mirrors.
Perhaps this whole conversation is better suited to the centos-mirrors list. I'm cross-posting there in hopes of moving any further mirror discussions off of -devel.
Personally, I think the mirror infrastructure in place is more than sufficient for releases and there's no need to complicate things with seeding torrents (full or partial) before the official release on the mirrors.
Do people have problems with slow downloads just after a centos release? I can say our mirrors have always had plenty of bandwidth to spare during a centos release.
-Jeff
That being the case (and hopefully it is) then this whole question of release timing and spacing the release to the mirrors shouldn't matter. when they're done, release them.
And while I agree this is more appropriate for the mirrors list, being the original question here was about release timing, whether to delay 6 release for a few extra days to let the mirrors settle, I understand it being initially raised here as well.
zeb
On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 11:04 AM, Jeff Sheltren jeff@osuosl.org wrote:
On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 9:03 AM, Zeb Palmer zeb@zebpalmer.com wrote:
You may also consider doing what I believe has been done on this project once or twice before. (maybe it was a different project, its been a
while)
When the iso is ready, put the torrent(s) out with only a 95% seed. I can seed 20Mbs 24/365 and as shown already, many of us have this kind of bandwidth to share. If 5.6 and 6 are done at the same time get 5.6 on the mirror and start seeding 6, doing this would encourage people to use the torrent to get it as early as possible and since it can't 100% done yet, many would end up seeding longer than usual waiting for the other 5%.
This
would take a lot of load off the mirrors and when you are happy with the mirrors, release the other 5% of the seed and put the isos on the
mirrors.
Perhaps this whole conversation is better suited to the centos-mirrors list. I'm cross-posting there in hopes of moving any further mirror discussions off of -devel.
Personally, I think the mirror infrastructure in place is more than sufficient for releases and there's no need to complicate things with seeding torrents (full or partial) before the official release on the mirrors.
Do people have problems with slow downloads just after a centos release? I can say our mirrors have always had plenty of bandwidth to spare during a centos release.
-Jeff _______________________________________________ CentOS-devel mailing list CentOS-devel@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
On 1/15/11 12:04 PM, Jeff Sheltren wrote:
Personally, I think the mirror infrastructure in place is more than sufficient for releases and there's no need to complicate things with seeding torrents (full or partial) before the official release on the mirrors.
Do people have problems with slow downloads just after a centos release? I can say our mirrors have always had plenty of bandwidth to spare during a centos release.
At least some of the mirrors are insanely fast - at least since the 5.x release. The usual issue is that some are not and on big updates they can be out of sync. Even if the torrents don't start much ahead of the full release they should help keep the slower mirrors from being overloaded with iso downloads. How do the links from distrowatch.com work? Are they independent bandwidth or do they go to the usual mirrors?
On 01/15/2011 03:54 PM, Alessandro Ren wrote:
But I am willing to seed at 2-3 Mbps myself, too.
I can seed them too at 3Mbps .
Thanks for the offers guys, but we only accept initial torrent seeders who can offer 100mbps or more ( remember, at release time we usually have >= 2 gb/sec on the torrents )
- KB
just Ping me by private mail if you need more seeds in Germany. I can offer a few 100 MBit/s hosts and up to three boxes, each hooked up to a dedicated gigabit link (can push > 500 MBit/s each).
Regards, Andreas
Am 16.01.2011 04:38, schrieb Karanbir Singh:
On 01/15/2011 03:54 PM, Alessandro Ren wrote:
But I am willing to seed at 2-3 Mbps myself, too.
I can seed them too at 3Mbps .Thanks for the offers guys, but we only accept initial torrent seeders who can offer 100mbps or more ( remember, at release time we usually have>= 2 gb/sec on the torrents )
- KB
CentOS-devel mailing list CentOS-devel@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
I can provide a dedicated host for seeding and a dedicated 100Mbit link in Sweden.
Regards / Alexander
Andreas Rogge wrote:
just Ping me by private mail if you need more seeds in Germany. I can offer a few 100 MBit/s hosts and up to three boxes, each hooked up to a dedicated gigabit link (can push > 500 MBit/s each).
Regards, Andreas
Am 16.01.2011 04:38, schrieb Karanbir Singh:
On 01/15/2011 03:54 PM, Alessandro Ren wrote:
But I am willing to seed at 2-3 Mbps myself, too.
I can seed them too at 3Mbps .Thanks for the offers guys, but we only accept initial torrent seeders who can offer 100mbps or more ( remember, at release time we usually have>= 2 gb/sec on the torrents )
- KB
CentOS-devel mailing list CentOS-devel@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
On 01/17/2011 03:30 PM, Alexander Lindqvist wrote:
I can provide a dedicated host for seeding and a dedicated 100Mbit link in Sweden.
awesome; thanks guys. I'm writing up a list. However, send these to the centos-mirror list or email one of us privately. centos-mirror list preferred :)
- KB
On 15 January 2011 12:02, Ljubomir Ljubojevic office@plnet.rs wrote:
I think a lot of people would also be happy with releasing .torrent's for C6 into the wild, at first for those of us monitoring this list eager to deploy C6, even if there are not much seeders. The number of people interested in this release will be great and many will become temporary seeders. I my self have 5Mbps of upload bandwidth. 20 of us can replace one 100Mbps seeder.
Very good idea, indeed.
I have access to 2 100Mbps links myself where I can put upload to 100Mbps during the night (and around 20Mpbs during the day).
I'm based in EU so that would be ideal for people located in US/AUS.
On 01/15/2011 12:02 PM, Ljubomir Ljubojevic wrote:
I think a lot of people would also be happy with releasing .torrent's for C6 into the wild, at first for those of us monitoring this list
Without functional mirrorlists and available security updates, I think that might not be really that good an idea.
- KB
I may be alone here, but I'm perfectly happy waiting the few extra days to download v6 according to established methods.
On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 8:37 AM, Karanbir Singh mail-lists@karan.orgwrote:
On 01/15/2011 12:02 PM, Ljubomir Ljubojevic wrote:
I think a lot of people would also be happy with releasing .torrent's for C6 into the wild, at first for those of us monitoring this list
Without functional mirrorlists and available security updates, I think that might not be really that good an idea.
- KB
CentOS-devel mailing list CentOS-devel@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
On 15 January 2011 13:37, Karanbir Singh mail-lists@karan.org wrote:
Without functional mirrorlists and available security updates, I think that might not be really that good an idea.
You could start seeding to primary mirrors + share ISO images over torrent network. This way torrent would be used as a help for loaded mirrors...
I think this is a good idea,
Transfer all data without the ISO images to the server an share the ISO via torrent. When the mirrors are stable after a few days, you can put the images to the server.
I can seed with 2 Mbit/s for the initial phase.
2011/1/15 Bart Swedrowski bart@timedout.org
On 15 January 2011 13:37, Karanbir Singh mail-lists@karan.org wrote:
Without functional mirrorlists and available security updates, I think that might not be really that good an idea.
You could start seeding to primary mirrors + share ISO images over torrent network. This way torrent would be used as a help for loaded mirrors...
CentOS-devel mailing list CentOS-devel@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
On 01/15/2011 01:57 PM, Bart Swedrowski wrote:
You could start seeding to primary mirrors + share ISO images over torrent network. This way torrent would be used as a help for loaded mirrors...
That is actually a very major misconception. Torrents to seed mirrors is quite a bit slower than seeding them in the rsync tree's.
- KB
Le 16/01/2011 07:37, Karanbir Singh a écrit :
On 01/15/2011 01:57 PM, Bart Swedrowski wrote:
You could start seeding to primary mirrors + share ISO images over torrent network. This way torrent would be used as a help for loaded mirrors...
That is actually a very major misconception. Torrents to seed mirrors is quite a bit slower than seeding them in the rsync tree's.
- KB
Hello,
If your ISP apply QOS on torrent traffic to limit bandwidth, yes. but it it's not the case, Torrents are as fast as rsync.
Regards,
js.
jean-seb wrote:
Le 16/01/2011 07:37, Karanbir Singh a écrit :
On 01/15/2011 01:57 PM, Bart Swedrowski wrote:
You could start seeding to primary mirrors + share ISO images over torrent network. This way torrent would be used as a help for loaded mirrors...
That is actually a very major misconception. Torrents to seed mirrors is quite a bit slower than seeding them in the rsync tree's.
- KB
Hello,
If your ISP apply QOS on torrent traffic to limit bandwidth, yes. but it it's not the case, Torrents are as fast as rsync.
Regards,
js.
There is no need to complicate thing with torrents for mirrors. This can only help with inter-mirror infrastructure and not for end user. End user need to use yum, so messing with torrents is futile.
Since mirrors will be (over)loaded when ISO's are released, and mirrors will distribute bandwidth accordingly, downloading them will be slower. I suggested that publishing torrents only in devel list, and not for all to see, for a few days, and in case normalizing mirrors will take several days, would benefit us on the list waiting this release since first RHEL Beta was released (6-7 months ago).
I installed it on my laptop and even created local repo for additional packages, and am using it ever since. But since it is beta and plus customized, it is prone to sporadic crashing. And I still use it every day. My home PC is CentOS 5.5 with large number of additional packages, 40-50 I created my self, like latest Skype version rpm and OpenOffice 3.2. But I constantly have USB problems on my MB, needing to disable EHCI module so HP-1020 printer would work and USB connected discs would not disappear in the middle of the copying to and from them, an multiple times a day, every day event. Not to mention Krusader 2.x featury to create a queue for copying multiple files/folders and then leave it unattended, something I miss for 3-4 years when I switched to Linux/CentOS only PC.
There are also several server/desktop PC's in small companies I maintain in need of CentOS 6 package base, and several more waiting for Linux installation but postponed until CentOS 6 is released. Once it is released, I will be finally able to install stable (rpm based) linux to people interested in modern Linux.
If I had any free time (I am one-man show - WISP/IT Specialist without more then 3-day vacation in last 8 years) I would have jumped in and helped to release CentOS 6 as fast as possible.
Those are the reasons I anxiously await ISO's so I can instantly reinstall my home PC's. Since packages will be the same on the mirrors and on the ISO's, and since I will need a day or two to backup existing system and write down all the applications I will need, I was hoping to avoid rush hour when CentOS is released. Seeding would be me giving back to community.
My suggestion was only that, an suggestion, and if it is decided to wait I will reluctantly wait for it.
P.S. Me anxiously waiting for release to be ready has nothing to do with excellent job CentOS team is doing, and in no way it is meant as ANY kind of critique.
Sincerely, Ljubomir
Karanbir Singh wrote on 01/15/2011 10:37 PM: ...
That is actually a very major misconception. Torrents to seed mirrors is quite a bit slower than seeding them in the rsync tree's.
I interpreted the suggest as putting up torrents to help take some of the load that would otherwise be hitting the mirrors, rather than using them to populate the mirrors.
Phil
Indeed.
Sent from my android On Jan 16, 2011 8:02 AM, "Phil Schaffner" Philip.R.Schaffner@nasa.gov wrote:
Karanbir Singh wrote on 01/15/2011 10:37 PM: ...
That is actually a very major misconception. Torrents to seed mirrors is quite a bit slower than seeding them in the rsync tree's.
I interpreted the suggest as putting up torrents to help take some of the load that would otherwise be hitting the mirrors, rather than using them to populate the mirrors.
Phil _______________________________________________ CentOS-devel mailing list CentOS-devel@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
On 01/15/2011 03:18 AM, Karanbir Singh wrote:
Based on feedback, we seem to have general consensus that getting 5.6/ to mirrors first is the way to go. However, this does not mean that work on 6.0 will stop, we will try and get the isos ready - but we might need to give the mirrors a bit of a break before releasing those as well.
The point that 5.6 is more urgent than 6.0 for existing installations has been made very convincingly.
The point that 6.0 is far more useful than 5.6 for new installations has also been made convincingly.
Apart from de-branding, building, QA and seeding, it also takes manpower and time to adjust anaconda and to create and test ISOs.
Putting all this together, I think we'd get the better of both worlds both from a manpower and from a mirror update bandwidth perspective, by
1. releasing the 5.6 repo, 2. releasing all of 6.0, 3. releasing the 5.6 ISOs,
in this order.
Please let me know if/how I can help. I can afford to put one box and 10-20 hours weekly into this for the next few weeks.
Z
On 01/16/2011 12:23 AM, Zenon Panoussis wrote:
Please let me know if/how I can help. I can afford to put one box and 10-20 hours weekly into this for the next few weeks.
The opportunity to help and contribute for 6.0 has been out there for a few months now. Exactly what would you like clarification on ? - KB
On 01/16/2011 04:36 AM, Karanbir Singh wrote:
Please let me know if/how I can help. I can afford to put one box and 10-20 hours weekly into this for the next few weeks.
The opportunity to help and contribute for 6.0 has been out there for a few months now.
I haven't been reading the list, so I am completely out of sync.
Exactly what would you like clarification on ?
What I can do to help. I don't have bandwidth to offer, but I do have time and knowledge. Thus, if you have any pending tasks in these two releases that you could throw at me, I'd be happy to do them. And if you don't want to involve a newcomer in the releases themselves, but there is something somewhere else that I could do to free up some of your time for the releases, I'd gladly do that.
Z
-
Alessandro Ren -
Alexander Lindqvist -
Andreas Rogge -
Bart Swedrowski -
jean-seb -
Jeff Sheltren -
Karanbir Singh -
Les Mikesell -
Ljubomir Ljubojevic -
Manuel Wolfshant -
Phil Schaffner -
Philippe Laurent -
Sebastian Marten -
Zeb Palmer -
Zenon Panoussis