On Tue, Jan 7, 2020 at 8:48 AM Stephen Gallagher sgallagh@redhat.com wrote:

On Tue, Jan 7, 2020 at 7:11 AM Neal Gompa ngompa13@gmail.com wrote: ...

...

What I'm more concerned about is that if you eliminate Fedora from any meaningful server based development, you strip all the opportunities for people to iterate on server-oriented changes before they go into rhel-rawhide and push into CentOS Stream. You also essentially kneecap any motivation for other things related to server environments to iterate faster (such as language stacks that are heavily used for web service software) because you've eliminated the major ability for that to ship to users and contributors. It also further accelerates a trend that I think we need to reverse where people consider Fedora unacceptable for server roles. If anything, Fedora is a lot better at being used for servers then it was five years ago. I've personally *stopped* using CentOS for servers because Fedora has gotten so good at it. Upgrades are a breeze and stuff generally works. When it doesn't, it's fixable! That last part is key. With CentOS, it's not, because it has to bounce back into Red Hat first. And Red Hat doesn't really care about issues discovered by CentOS users, and there are no "CentOS developers".

So, what this long email is actually saying is that I think it's an interesting idea to bring the two projects together, but eliminating aspects of Fedora in favor of CentOS is premature because CentOS has not actually developed as a community project. Maybe it's worth revisiting after six years of actual community development?

I don't think Matthew suggested that we'd stop development of server technologies in Fedora. I think he was saying that we'd drop the "Fedora Server Edition" as a user-targeted deliverable. This is an important distinction. We'd instead focus on server technology development atop the container and Fedora Cloud Edition use-cases.

Today's Cloud Edition is mostly a further stripped down Server Edition variant with different words in the branding. It's our deliverable for clouds like AWS and cloud-like VPSes like DigitalOcean.

However, Fedora Server Edition is what people use to run their *own* servers with Fedora, and that also includes things like VMs in more traditional hypervisor setups (oVirt/RHV, VMware, XCP-ng/XenServer, etc.).

The key difference between Server and Cloud Edition is the usage of Anaconda to install Fedora. I'm pretty sure we still want to be continually validating *that* works, especially since it's a different codepath in Anaconda from the desktop flavors.

-- 真実はいつも一つ！/ Always, there's only one truth!