Hello,
The future of the CentOS Project is CentOS Stream, and over the next year we’ll be shifting focus from CentOS Linux, the rebuild of Red Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL), to CentOS Stream, which tracks just ahead of a current RHEL release. CentOS Linux 8, as a rebuild of RHEL 8, will end at the end of 2021. CentOS Stream continues after that date, serving as the upstream (development) branch of Red Hat Enterprise Linux.
Meanwhile, we understand many of you are deeply invested in CentOS Linux 7, and we’ll continue to produce that version through the remainder of the RHEL 7 life cycle. https://access.redhat.com/support/policy/updates/errata/#Life_Cycle_Dates
Yeah, deeply, in many a sense. I am a sysadmin, attending to quite a lot of systems, and CentOS was a real blessing.
Now, as I see it, CentOS is becoming a sandbox for upcoming RHEL minor releases, so one can bid farewell to free to use, stable, reliable and predictable OS.
I am currently in process of upgrading multiple CentOS-driven systems, so this piece of news has become a nasty surprise. Looks like a major decision should be taken right now.
Apart from migrating to Oracle Linux (which I wouldn't like at all), and buying RHEL itself, what are other possible alternatives (just curious)?
Thanks.
Sincerely, Konstantin
On 09 Dec 05:38, Konstantin Boyandin via CentOS-devel wrote:
Hello,
The future of the CentOS Project is CentOS Stream, and over the next year we’ll be shifting focus from CentOS Linux, the rebuild of Red Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL), to CentOS Stream, which tracks just ahead of a current RHEL release. CentOS Linux 8, as a rebuild of RHEL 8, will end at the end of 2021. CentOS Stream continues after that date, serving as the upstream (development) branch of Red Hat Enterprise Linux.
Meanwhile, we understand many of you are deeply invested in CentOS Linux 7, and we’ll continue to produce that version through the remainder of the RHEL 7 life cycle. https://access.redhat.com/support/policy/updates/errata/#Life_Cycle_Dates
Yeah, deeply, in many a sense. I am a sysadmin, attending to quite a lot of systems, and CentOS was a real blessing.
Now, as I see it, CentOS is becoming a sandbox for upcoming RHEL minor releases, so one can bid farewell to free to use, stable, reliable and predictable OS.
I am currently in process of upgrading multiple CentOS-driven systems, so this piece of news has become a nasty surprise. Looks like a major decision should be taken right now.
Apart from migrating to Oracle Linux (which I wouldn't like at all), and buying RHEL itself, what are other possible alternatives (just curious)?
From what I see and hear from the community it seems that by the end of 2021 there might be another RHEL rebuild, under another name.
Thanks.
Sincerely, Konstantin _______________________________________________ CentOS-devel mailing list CentOS-devel@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
Il giorno mer 9 dic 2020 alle ore 11:42 Julien Pivotto < roidelapluie@inuits.eu> ha scritto:
On 09 Dec 05:38, Konstantin Boyandin via CentOS-devel wrote:
Hello,
The future of the CentOS Project is CentOS Stream, and over the next year we’ll be shifting focus from CentOS Linux, the rebuild of Red Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL), to CentOS Stream, which tracks just ahead of
a
current RHEL release. CentOS Linux 8, as a rebuild of RHEL 8, will end at the end of 2021. CentOS Stream continues after that date, serving
as
the upstream (development) branch of Red Hat Enterprise Linux.
Meanwhile, we understand many of you are deeply invested in CentOS
Linux
7, and we’ll continue to produce that version through the remainder of the RHEL 7 life cycle.
https://access.redhat.com/support/policy/updates/errata/#Life_Cycle_Dates
Yeah, deeply, in many a sense. I am a sysadmin, attending to quite a lot of systems, and CentOS was a real blessing.
Now, as I see it, CentOS is becoming a sandbox for upcoming RHEL minor releases, so one can bid farewell to free to use, stable, reliable and predictable OS.
I am currently in process of upgrading multiple CentOS-driven systems, so this piece of news has become a nasty surprise. Looks like a major decision should be taken right now.
Apart from migrating to Oracle Linux (which I wouldn't like at all), and buying RHEL itself, what are other possible alternatives (just curious)?
From what I see and hear from the community it seems that by the end of 2021 there might be another RHEL rebuild, under another name.
Here's another one already active: http://springdale.math.ias.edu/
Thanks.
Sincerely, Konstantin _______________________________________________ CentOS-devel mailing list CentOS-devel@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
-- (o- Julien Pivotto //\ Config Management SIG V_/_ https://frama.link/cfgmgmt _______________________________________________ CentOS-devel mailing list CentOS-devel@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
On 09.12.2020 17:42, Julien Pivotto wrote:
On 09 Dec 05:38, Konstantin Boyandin via CentOS-devel wrote:
Hello,
The future of the CentOS Project is CentOS Stream, and over the next year we’ll be shifting focus from CentOS Linux, the rebuild of Red
Hat
Enterprise Linux (RHEL), to CentOS Stream, which tracks just ahead of
a
current RHEL release. CentOS Linux 8, as a rebuild of RHEL 8, will
end
at the end of 2021. CentOS Stream continues after that date, serving
as
the upstream (development) branch of Red Hat Enterprise Linux.
Meanwhile, we understand many of you are deeply invested in CentOS
Linux
7, and we’ll continue to produce that version through the remainder
of
the RHEL 7 life cycle.
https://access.redhat.com/support/policy/updates/errata/#Life_Cycle_Dates
[...]
I am currently in process of upgrading multiple CentOS-driven systems, so this piece of news has become a nasty surprise. Looks like a major decision should be taken right now.
Apart from migrating to Oracle Linux (which I wouldn't like at all), and buying RHEL itself, what are other possible alternatives (just curious)?
From what I see and hear from the community it seems that by the end of 2021 there might be another RHEL rebuild, under another name.
I would be eager to see one raising, and support, as I did support CentOS in whatever amounts I could, all these years.
I will also look into Springdale Linux, mentioned by Sandro Bonazzola.
Sincerely,
Konstantin system administrator, ProWide Labs Ltd. / IPHost Network Monitor
Am 09.12.20 um 12:29 schrieb Konstantin Boyandin via CentOS-devel:
On 09.12.2020 17:42, Julien Pivotto wrote:
On 09 Dec 05:38, Konstantin Boyandin via CentOS-devel wrote:
Hello,
The future of the CentOS Project is CentOS Stream, and over the next year we’ll be shifting focus from CentOS Linux, the rebuild of Red
Hat
Enterprise Linux (RHEL), to CentOS Stream, which tracks just ahead of
a
current RHEL release. CentOS Linux 8, as a rebuild of RHEL 8, will
end
at the end of 2021. CentOS Stream continues after that date, serving
as
the upstream (development) branch of Red Hat Enterprise Linux.
Meanwhile, we understand many of you are deeply invested in CentOS
Linux
7, and we’ll continue to produce that version through the remainder
of
the RHEL 7 life cycle.
https://access.redhat.com/support/policy/updates/errata/#Life_Cycle_Dates
[...]
I am currently in process of upgrading multiple CentOS-driven systems, so this piece of news has become a nasty surprise. Looks like a major decision should be taken right now.
Apart from migrating to Oracle Linux (which I wouldn't like at all), and buying RHEL itself, what are other possible alternatives (just curious)?
From what I see and hear from the community it seems that by the end of 2021 there might be another RHEL rebuild, under another name.
I would be eager to see one raising, and support, as I did support CentOS in whatever amounts I could, all these years.
I will also look into Springdale Linux, mentioned by Sandro Bonazzola.
Any feedback here from Fermilab/Scientific Linux folks?
-- Leon
Am 09.12.20 um 12:29 schrieb Konstantin Boyandin via CentOS-devel:
On 09.12.2020 17:42, Julien Pivotto wrote:
On 09 Dec 05:38, Konstantin Boyandin via CentOS-devel wrote:
Hello,
The future of the CentOS Project is CentOS Stream, and over the
next
year we’ll be shifting focus from CentOS Linux, the rebuild of
Red
Hat
Enterprise Linux (RHEL), to CentOS Stream, which tracks just
ahead of
a
current RHEL release. CentOS Linux 8, as a rebuild of RHEL 8,
will
end
at the end of 2021. CentOS Stream continues after that date,
serving
as
the upstream (development) branch of Red Hat Enterprise Linux.
Meanwhile, we understand many of you are deeply invested in
CentOS
Linux
7, and we’ll continue to produce that version through the
remainder
of
the RHEL 7 life cycle.
https://access.redhat.com/support/policy/updates/errata/#Life_Cycle_Dates
[...]
I am currently in process of upgrading multiple CentOS-driven systems, so this piece of news has become a nasty surprise. Looks like a major decision should be taken right now.
Apart from migrating to Oracle Linux (which I wouldn't like at all), and buying RHEL itself, what are other possible alternatives (just curious)?
From what I see and hear from the community it seems that by the end of 2021 there might be another RHEL rebuild, under another name.
I would be eager to see one raising, and support, as I did support CentOS in whatever amounts I could, all these years.
I will also look into Springdale Linux, mentioned by Sandro Bonazzola.
Any feedback here from Fermilab/Scientific Linux folks?
I'm also wondering about CERN (https://linux.web.cern.ch/). Does anybody know something what they say about the news?
Simon
On 09.12.2020 19:01, Strahil Nikolov wrote:
Apart from migrating to Oracle Linux (which I wouldn't like at all), and buying RHEL itself, what are other possible alternatives (just curious)?
OpenSUSE, Debian, Ubuntu LTS, BSD
I meant RHEL-compatibles.
If all goes bad with "new CentOS", I'd rather migrate to a Debian-like (I use Debian offsprings a lot - Ubuntu, Kali etc).
Sincerely,
Konstantin system administrator, ProWide Labs Ltd. / IPHost Network Monitor
Am 09.12.20 um 13:01 schrieb Strahil Nikolov via CentOS-devel:
Apart from migrating to Oracle Linux (which I wouldn't like at all), and buying RHEL itself, what are other possible alternatives (just curious)?
OpenSUSE, Debian, Ubuntu LTS, BSD
I would prioritize RPM based distros ...
-- Leon
On 12/9/20 1:01 PM, Strahil Nikolov via CentOS-devel wrote:
Apart from migrating to Oracle Linux (which I wouldn't like at all), and buying RHEL itself, what are other possible alternatives (just curious)?
OpenSUSE, Debian, Ubuntu LTS, BSD
FreeBSD has a 5 year support window, but that only applies for the base system (kernel and core utilities), not to any additional software you need from FreeBSD ports. They don't have the resources to maintain stable versions, so you have to compile everything yourself (binary packages are late to deliver security updates, again due to resources). Fine for a firewall or load balancer, but if you run a bigger Web application, Debian or another LTS distribution are much better, IMHO.
On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 10:38 AM Konstantin Boyandin via CentOS-devel < centos-devel@centos.org> wrote:
Hello,
The future of the CentOS Project is CentOS Stream, and over the next year we’ll be shifting focus from CentOS Linux, the rebuild of Red Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL), to CentOS Stream, which tracks just ahead of a current RHEL release. CentOS Linux 8, as a rebuild of RHEL 8, will end at the end of 2021. CentOS Stream continues after that date, serving as the upstream (development) branch of Red Hat Enterprise Linux.
Meanwhile, we understand many of you are deeply invested in CentOS Linux 7, and we’ll continue to produce that version through the remainder of the RHEL 7 life cycle.
https://access.redhat.com/support/policy/updates/errata/#Life_Cycle_Dates
This is the part that worries me. This is not a guarantee. This is not a contract. We have to _trust_ the CentOS team (board) to do this. We trusted them to continue CentOS 8 and to continue to follow RHEL and they changed direction. Therefore, until proven otherwise, I can no longer trust anything coming from CentOS. They have proven that they will change the direction of CentOS at any time.
Jeff
On Wed, 2020-12-09 at 05:38 -0500, Konstantin Boyandin via CentOS-devel wrote:
https://access.redhat.com/support/policy/updates/errata/#Life_Cycle_Dates
Yeah, deeply, in many a sense. I am a sysadmin, attending to quite a lot of systems, and CentOS was a real blessing.
Now, as I see it, CentOS is becoming a sandbox for upcoming RHEL minor releases, so one can bid farewell to free to use, stable, reliable and predictable OS.
It is for the ISVs now. 3rd party software vendors which do not need to buy a RHEL license to provide software for RHEL. They can test next releases now without troubles. RedHat does not want personal users, they only want business.
First thing if you switch to streams, it installs subscription-manager. If you try to uninstall it, tuned is going to be removed. Feels like bullying on all levels.
I am currently in process of upgrading multiple CentOS-driven systems, so this piece of news has become a nasty surprise. Looks like a major decision should be taken right now.
I am really disappointed: A year ago they promised nothing will change for the rebuild version when streams was announced. Since then I have migrated all of my personal CentOS 6 to CentOS 8. And right after the end of CentOS 6, CentOS 8 rebuild is going to be destroyed within a few months. I don't believe in coincidence, this is very dishonest move.
So lets support the free linux distributions or create another rebuild project.
Regards, Oliver
Greetings,
----- Original Message -----
First thing if you switch to streams, it installs subscription-manager. If you try to uninstall it, tuned is going to be removed. Feels like bullying on all levels.
That isn't anything to worry about and certainly not nefarious. subscription-manager is also packaged in Fedora. I'm not sure what it is good for... but it is fairly common that sometimes we get deps we don't want or think are necessary... yet the packager, knowing more about the underlying details, thought otherwise. I have not investigated the specifics on it though.
Since then I have migrated all of my personal CentOS 6 to CentOS 8.
Most people don't leap-frog major releases but you are certainly free do that if desired.
And right after the end of CentOS 6, CentOS 8 rebuild is going to be destroyed within a few months.
If by a "few months" you mean 12+ and by "destroyed" you mean "with an upgrade path to Stream that goes until 2024"... you are so right.
So lets support the free linux distributions or create another rebuild project.
I guess you could use a coin flip to decide. I prefer to wait an see.
TYL,
On Wed, 2020-12-09 at 15:01 -0700, Scott Dowdle wrote:
Since then I have migrated all of my personal CentOS 6 to CentOS 8.
Most people don't leap-frog major releases but you are certainly free do that if desired.
Oh, I have several C7 systems as well. But the decision for my last C6 systems was C7 until 2024 or C8 until 2029. But 2029 was a lie.
So maybe not only C8 has low adaption rates, maybe with RHEL 8 it is the same.
Regards, Oliver
On 12/9/2020 2:01 PM, Scott Dowdle wrote:
Since then I have migrated all of my personal CentOS 6 to CentOS 8.
Most people don't leap-frog major releases but you are certainly free do that if desired.
"Most" people probably don't, but speaking anecdotally I know a number that have. EL6 was "just working" during EL7's instability, and a lot of folks chose to hold out for EL8 (modularity weirdness aside). Many of them, myself included, used the EOL as the push to upgrade with the 8.3 release around the corner, taking a larger than normal forklift because "it was the right thing to do" for future-proofing if an upgrade was going to happen.
For that leap of faith, CentOS users are being punished with worse planned support than the previous release will be getting. That's one reason for the sting -- certainly one reason for me.
-jc
On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 3:53 PM Oliver Paukstadt pstadt@sourcentral.org wrote:
On Wed, 2020-12-09 at 05:38 -0500, Konstantin Boyandin via CentOS-devel wrote:
https://access.redhat.com/support/policy/updates/errata/#Life_Cycle_Dates
Yeah, deeply, in many a sense. I am a sysadmin, attending to quite a lot of systems, and CentOS was a real blessing.
Now, as I see it, CentOS is becoming a sandbox for upcoming RHEL minor releases, so one can bid farewell to free to use, stable, reliable and predictable OS.
It is for the ISVs now. 3rd party software vendors which do not need to buy a RHEL license to provide software for RHEL. They can test next releases now without troubles. RedHat does not want personal users, they only want business.
First thing if you switch to streams, it installs subscription-manager. If you try to uninstall it, tuned is going to be removed. Feels like bullying on all levels.
Can you file a bug on subscription-manager for that, please? That seems unnecessary and likely a side-effect of Stream being directly in the path of RHEL development. We should look at adjusting it to make Stream a bit more usable there.
josh
I am currently in process of upgrading multiple CentOS-driven systems, so this piece of news has become a nasty surprise. Looks like a major decision should be taken right now.
I am really disappointed: A year ago they promised nothing will change for the rebuild version when streams was announced. Since then I have migrated all of my personal CentOS 6 to CentOS 8. And right after the end of CentOS 6, CentOS 8 rebuild is going to be destroyed within a few months. I don't believe in coincidence, this is very dishonest move.
So lets support the free linux distributions or create another rebuild project.
Regards, Oliver
CentOS-devel mailing list CentOS-devel@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
On Thu, 2020-12-10 at 07:22 -0500, Josh Boyer wrote:
On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 3:53 PM Oliver Paukstadt
First thing if you switch to streams, it installs subscription- manager. If you try to uninstall it, tuned is going to be removed. Feels like bullying on all levels.
Can you file a bug on subscription-manager for that, please? That seems unnecessary and likely a side-effect of Stream being directly in the path of RHEL development. We should look at adjusting it to make Stream a bit more usable there.
No need for a bug. Stumbled accross a wrong procedure to switch to streams (install/update instead of install/swap/distro-sync). After fixing this subscription-manger can at least be uninstalled without side effects.
Regards, Oliver
-
Japheth Cleaver -
Jeffrey Layton -
Josh Boyer -
Julien Pivotto -
Konstantin Boyandin -
Laurențiu Păncescu -
Leon Fauster -
Oliver Paukstadt -
Sandro Bonazzola -
Scott Dowdle -
Simon Matter -
Strahil Nikolov