We are having issues with drpms on CentOS-6 i386 and x86_64 and on CentOS-7 x86_64.
The technical issues sometimes cause us to have to rebuild all drpms over again .. and the time involved is very large. Also storing the drpms and moving them around takes up a lot of space and bandwidth.
We would like to remove delta rpms (drpms) from our CentOS-6 and CentOS-7 repositories.
But before we do , we would like a discussion on these lists to ensure this is not going to cause people major issues.
So, begin the discussion, and we will address this again in about a month. And we'll see where it leads.
Thanks, Johnny Hughes
On Tue, Jun 4, 2019 at 8:55 AM Johnny Hughes johnny@centos.org wrote:
We would like to remove delta rpms (drpms) from our CentOS-6 and CentOS-7 repositories.
I'm in favor of removing drpms. They are nice for people on very limited bandwidth, but it's an overhead for the project and mirrors that like you say, just isn't worth it.
-Jeff
On Tue, Jun 4, 2019 at 8:11 AM Jeff Sheltren jeff@tag1consulting.com wrote:
On Tue, Jun 4, 2019 at 8:55 AM Johnny Hughes johnny@centos.org wrote:
We would like to remove delta rpms (drpms) from our CentOS-6 and CentOS-7 repositories.
I'm in favor of removing drpms. They are nice for people on very limited bandwidth, but it's an overhead for the project and mirrors that like you say, just isn't worth it.
+1
But it would be nice to get some usage stats to see how many people are still using them on a regular basis.
On 04/06/2019 15:55, Johnny Hughes wrote:
We are having issues with drpms on CentOS-6 i386 and x86_64 and on CentOS-7 x86_64.
The technical issues sometimes cause us to have to rebuild all drpms over again .. and the time involved is very large. Also storing the drpms and moving them around takes up a lot of space and bandwidth.
We would like to remove delta rpms (drpms) from our CentOS-6 and CentOS-7 repositories.
But before we do , we would like a discussion on these lists to ensure this is not going to cause people major issues.
So, begin the discussion, and we will address this again in about a month. And we'll see where it leads.
I already exclude drpms from my local mirror as they're just a waste of disk space for me.
Trevor
I'd love to see drpms for things like going from 7.5.1804 to 7.6.1810 (or the next set of versions) in theory these should only need maintenance with the actual release and might help with folks making the upgrade. I can see this having a positive impact at release time for folks and let people who've got old media make a faster jump.
Pat
On 6/4/19 9:55 AM, Johnny Hughes wrote:
We are having issues with drpms on CentOS-6 i386 and x86_64 and on CentOS-7 x86_64.
The technical issues sometimes cause us to have to rebuild all drpms over again .. and the time involved is very large. Also storing the drpms and moving them around takes up a lot of space and bandwidth.
We would like to remove delta rpms (drpms) from our CentOS-6 and CentOS-7 repositories.
But before we do , we would like a discussion on these lists to ensure this is not going to cause people major issues.
So, begin the discussion, and we will address this again in about a month. And we'll see where it leads.
Thanks, Johnny Hughes
CentOS-devel mailing list CentOS-devel@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
On Tue, Jun 4, 2019 at 9:18 AM Pat Riehecky riehecky@fnal.gov wrote:
I'd love to see drpms for things like going from 7.5.1804 to 7.6.1810 (or the next set of versions) in theory these should only need maintenance with the actual release and might help with folks making the upgrade. I can see this having a positive impact at release time for folks and let people who've got old media make a faster jump.
I'm curious why are you in favor of drpms in that specific case? In my experience, if you are on a fast network and/or have a local mirror, drpm updates are going to be slower than regular package updates. And would the CR repo address whatever your concern is about point release updates?
-Jeff
On 6/4/19 10:25 AM, Jeff Sheltren wrote:
On Tue, Jun 4, 2019 at 9:18 AM Pat Riehecky <riehecky@fnal.gov mailto:riehecky@fnal.gov> wrote:
I'd love to see drpms for things like going from 7.5.1804 to 7.6.1810 (or the next set of versions) in theory these should only need maintenance with the actual release and might help with folks making the upgrade. I can see this having a positive impact at release time for folks and let people who've got old media make a faster jump.I'm curious why are you in favor of drpms in that specific case? In my experience, if you are on a fast network and/or have a local mirror, drpm updates are going to be slower than regular package updates. And would the CR repo address whatever your concern is about point release updates?
My general thoughts/use case are really driving by seeing this as a compromise proposal. For folks who are super pro-delta this would be a place where they are at. For folks that are anti-delta the repos most folks use would not have them. The maintenance would be low as they would be a one shot. But the positives could be high as the updates between 7.5 and 7.6 are a lot of packages. This is probably the single biggest batch of updates at a time so I think it could satisfy each side a bit.
I think the CR repo is a slightly different creature. If it did continue to publish drpms, I'd want to re-use those for the final release. But it is targeted at folks who've been applying updates so there might be some pressure to retain the current behavior.
Perhaps my biggest sell is if you've got a 7.5 install DVD and just use those rpms, with the drpms for 7.6 Base OS you get to reuse the media with a reduced download.
I'm not sure if this is a strong, weak, or purely academic scenario. Just my initial guess at a least effort compromise.
Pat
On 6/4/19 10:18 AM, Pat Riehecky wrote:
I'd love to see drpms for things like going from 7.5.1804 to 7.6.1810 (or the next set of versions) in theory these should only need maintenance with the actual release and might help with folks making the upgrade. I can see this having a positive impact at release time for folks and let people who've got old media make a faster jump.
Pat
Believe it or not .. that is the only time we don't currently do them :)
Because it adds a bunch of size to the everything.iso
On 6/4/19 9:55 AM, Johnny Hughes wrote:
We are having issues with drpms on CentOS-6 i386 and x86_64 and on CentOS-7 x86_64.
The technical issues sometimes cause us to have to rebuild all drpms over again .. and the time involved is very large. Also storing the drpms and moving them around takes up a lot of space and bandwidth.
We would like to remove delta rpms (drpms) from our CentOS-6 and CentOS-7 repositories.
But before we do , we would like a discussion on these lists to ensure this is not going to cause people major issues.
So, begin the discussion, and we will address this again in about a month. And we'll see where it leads.
Thanks, Johnny Hughes
-- Pat Riehecky
Hi,
First of all, I would like to note that I don't have any strong opinion about delta RPMs in CentOS, but there are things that I would like to notice.
1) It might be a good idea to get some statistics about the usage of delta RPMs. It's also said that some issues require extra development time, that can be spent better. Once more, some additional information might be helpful. Fact and statistics based decisions are better. 2) From my experience, the large packages that should leverage delta RPMs the most are not deltarpmed (is this a word?). 3) Maybe keeping delta RPMs for last 2-3 package version would be some acceptable trade-off.
On 6/4/19 5:44 PM, Johnny Hughes wrote:
On 6/4/19 10:18 AM, Pat Riehecky wrote:
I'd love to see drpms for things like going from 7.5.1804 to 7.6.1810 (or the next set of versions) in theory these should only need maintenance with the actual release and might help with folks making the upgrade.?? I can see this having a positive impact at release time for folks and let people who've got old media make a faster jump.
Pat
Believe it or not .. that is the only time we don't currently do them :)
Insert Palpatine Ironic meme
Bests, Alex
On 6/4/19 10:44 AM, Johnny Hughes wrote:
On 6/4/19 10:18 AM, Pat Riehecky wrote:
I'd love to see drpms for things like going from 7.5.1804 to 7.6.1810 (or the next set of versions) in theory these should only need maintenance with the actual release and might help with folks making the upgrade. I can see this having a positive impact at release time for folks and let people who've got old media make a faster jump.
Pat
Believe it or not .. that is the only time we don't currently do them :)
Because it adds a bunch of size to the everything.iso
I'll confess I did notice they weren't there.
ISO bloat is a real concern! These days the boot.iso is larger than my first linux installation.... and it had Gnome and KDE installed..
On 6/4/19 9:55 AM, Johnny Hughes wrote:
We are having issues with drpms on CentOS-6 i386 and x86_64 and on CentOS-7 x86_64.
The technical issues sometimes cause us to have to rebuild all drpms over again .. and the time involved is very large. Also storing the drpms and moving them around takes up a lot of space and bandwidth.
We would like to remove delta rpms (drpms) from our CentOS-6 and CentOS-7 repositories.
But before we do , we would like a discussion on these lists to ensure this is not going to cause people major issues.
So, begin the discussion, and we will address this again in about a month. And we'll see where it leads.
Thanks, Johnny Hughes
-- Pat Riehecky
CentOS-devel mailing list CentOS-devel@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
Using DRPMs has always been slower for me than downloading the new RPMs (I work with mostly servers on a fast network). I'm in favor of ditching DRPM for the speed benefit alone. If it helps other aspects of system management for other folks, that's good too.
Johnny Hughes wrote on 6/4/2019 9:55 AM:
We are having issues with drpms on CentOS-6 i386 and x86_64 and on CentOS-7 x86_64.
The technical issues sometimes cause us to have to rebuild all drpms over again .. and the time involved is very large. Also storing the drpms and moving them around takes up a lot of space and bandwidth.
We would like to remove delta rpms (drpms) from our CentOS-6 and CentOS-7 repositories.
But before we do , we would like a discussion on these lists to ensure this is not going to cause people major issues.
So, begin the discussion, and we will address this again in about a month. And we'll see where it leads.
Thanks, Johnny Hughes
CentOS-devel mailing list CentOS-devel@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
On Tue, 2019-06-04 at 09:55 -0500, Johnny Hughes wrote:
We are having issues with drpms on CentOS-6 i386 and x86_64 and on CentOS-7 x86_64.
The technical issues sometimes cause us to have to rebuild all drpms over again .. and the time involved is very large. Also storing the drpms and moving them around takes up a lot of space and bandwidth.
So, for whatever it's worth, when we first introduced drpms into Fedora, the idea was to only keep them for GA -> n and n-1 -> n. This limited drpms to a maximum of two per package and made them far easier to manage, while still providing drpms for the common cases (updating a brand new install and doing regular updates).
I don't know how much use it would be, but I did write a tool a decade ago, I think called prunedrpms in the presto-utils package, that would remove old drpms. It's unmaintained and was retired retired years ago, but it might help with this use-case.
On the other hand, drpms have been pretty useless in Fedora for well over a year now[1] (old drpms get removed every compose, which means they're only available if you update every single day), and there are questions over there about whether or not it's worth it to keep building them. That's an indicator that it may be time to retire them.
Jonathan
On Tue, Jun 04, 2019 at 09:55:14AM -0500, Johnny Hughes wrote:
We are having issues with drpms on CentOS-6 i386 and x86_64 and on CentOS-7 x86_64.
The technical issues sometimes cause us to have to rebuild all drpms over again .. and the time involved is very large. Also storing the drpms and moving them around takes up a lot of space and bandwidth.
We would like to remove delta rpms (drpms) from our CentOS-6 and CentOS-7 repositories.
But before we do , we would like a discussion on these lists to ensure this is not going to cause people major issues.
So, begin the discussion, and we will address this again in about a month. And we'll see where it leads.
Thanks, Johnny Hughes
Johnny:
I don't have any particular problems with drpms, but I note that on my laptop, which is a really dog-slow dual-core Atom maxed out with a whopping 2Gig of RAM, the drpms seems to take forever to finish the rebuild. I suspect for me it'd be faster to just download the full RPM.
Fred
On Wed, Jun 5, 2019 at 12:20 AM Fred Smith fredex@fcshome.stoneham.ma.us wrote:
On Tue, Jun 04, 2019 at 09:55:14AM -0500, Johnny Hughes wrote:
We are having issues with drpms on CentOS-6 i386 and x86_64 and on CentOS-7 x86_64.
The technical issues sometimes cause us to have to rebuild all drpms over again .. and the time involved is very large. Also storing the drpms and moving them around takes up a lot of space and bandwidth.
We would like to remove delta rpms (drpms) from our CentOS-6 and CentOS-7 repositories.
But before we do , we would like a discussion on these lists to ensure this is not going to cause people major issues.
So, begin the discussion, and we will address this again in about a month. And we'll see where it leads.
Thanks, Johnny Hughes
Johnny:
I don't have any particular problems with drpms, but I note that on my laptop, which is a really dog-slow dual-core Atom maxed out with a whopping 2Gig of RAM, the drpms seems to take forever to finish the rebuild. I suspect for me it'd be faster to just download the full RPM.
Fred
They add unnecessary bulk to local mirrors, and especially to the repodata which *cannot* be optimized down without reducing content on the mirrors. I've never liked this unnecessary duplication of data.
-
aleksander.baranowski -
Blake Hudson -
Fred Smith -
Jeff Sheltren -
Johnny Hughes -
Jonathan Dieter -
Lance Albertson -
Nico Kadel-Garcia -
Pat Riehecky -
Trevor Hemsley