At the Hyperscale SIG, one of the repos we ship (centos-release- hyperscale-hotfixes, which we use to override modular content we need to fix as MBS is not available to SIGs) depends on EPEL (because the packages there, for example libvirt, needs dependencies in EPEL).
EPEL's Quickstart recommends enabling codeready-builder on RHEL8, and the corresponding powertools repo on CentOS 8: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL#Quickstart
Could we possibly just enable powertools by default? CRB is on by default in RHEL8 UBI containers (but weirdly not in the related CentOS Stream containers!).
There are multiple unactionable bugs in Bugzilla for EPEL about uninstallable packages, e.g.
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1890414
that ends up with the maintainer telling the reporter to just enable powertools.
A proof-of-concept we tested in Hyperscale is to just enable PowerTools in %posttrans: https://git.centos.org/rpms/centos-release-hyperscale/c/03b6fd490be2571efa60...
That way we can make sure that Powertools is already enabled for future transactions installing packages from our repos, but not potentially break the transaction itself by changing the set of packages available.
(note: not shipped yet)
But we'd rather not have to do this, and just have Powertools enabled to begin with. Failing that, have this kludge in epel-release so we get it for free for our packages that depend on EPEL.
Looking at PowerTools, there's a lot of packages there, esp. in the Python stack, that I could imagine many Python library or application shipped in EPEL would be uninstallable if the repo is disabled.
Best regards,
On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 9:32 PM Michel Alexandre Salim michel@michel-slm.name wrote:
At the Hyperscale SIG, one of the repos we ship (centos-release- hyperscale-hotfixes, which we use to override modular content we need to fix as MBS is not available to SIGs) depends on EPEL (because the packages there, for example libvirt, needs dependencies in EPEL).
EPEL's Quickstart recommends enabling codeready-builder on RHEL8, and the corresponding powertools repo on CentOS 8: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL#Quickstart
Could we possibly just enable powertools by default? CRB is on by default in RHEL8 UBI containers (but weirdly not in the related CentOS Stream containers!).
Good luck with that. Disabling Powertools by default is a RHEL upstream behavior. The segregation of these tools and the disabling of them by default is one of the aspects of RHEL 8 and CentOs 8 that profoundly irritate me, they've so far served no useful purpose and only caused confusion. They do reduce the metadata download requirements somewhat for ordinary yum updates, but that's a distinct issue.
Enabling it by default is available to you as a local configuration option: as you expand a network and go to system management tools like ansible rather than the expensive to set up and painful to manage RHN or spacewalk system, you may wish to automate its activate it by default or write '--enablerepo=PowerTools'' into your dnf installation scripts.
On Wed, 2021-05-19 at 22:17 -0400, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 9:32 PM Michel Alexandre Salim michel@michel-slm.name wrote:
At the Hyperscale SIG, one of the repos we ship (centos-release- hyperscale-hotfixes, which we use to override modular content we need to fix as MBS is not available to SIGs) depends on EPEL (because the packages there, for example libvirt, needs dependencies in EPEL).
EPEL's Quickstart recommends enabling codeready-builder on RHEL8, and the corresponding powertools repo on CentOS 8: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL#Quickstart
Could we possibly just enable powertools by default? CRB is on by default in RHEL8 UBI containers (but weirdly not in the related CentOS Stream containers!).
Good luck with that. Disabling Powertools by default is a RHEL upstream behavior. The segregation of these tools and the disabling of them by default is one of the aspects of RHEL 8 and CentOs 8 that profoundly irritate me, they've so far served no useful purpose and only caused confusion. They do reduce the metadata download requirements somewhat for ordinary yum updates, but that's a distinct issue.
Enabling it by default is available to you as a local configuration option: as you expand a network and go to system management tools like ansible rather than the expensive to set up and painful to manage RHN or spacewalk system, you may wish to automate its activate it by default or write '--enablerepo=PowerTools'' into your dnf installation scripts.
Yeah, we're exploring that option since we'll soon have Hyperscale instalation media anyway.
My pipe dream (doable, but I probably want to wait for the DNF -> microdnf rewrite dust to settle) is to be able to declare dependencies between repos.
e.g.
epel-release recommends (repo(PowerTools) if centos-stream-repos) => this signals to DNF that, hey, when epel-release is installed, flip PowerTools on, and if likewise PowerTools recommends another repo, it gets transitively enabled as well.
Best regards,
On May 20, 2021, at 20:58, Michel Alexandre Salim michel@michel-slm.name wrote:
My pipe dream (doable, but I probably want to wait for the DNF -> microdnf rewrite dust to settle) is to be able to declare dependencies between repos.
e.g.
epel-release recommends (repo(PowerTools) if centos-stream-repos) => this signals to DNF that, hey, when epel-release is installed, flip PowerTools on, and if likewise PowerTools recommends another repo, it gets transitively enabled as well.
Not for nothing but this would probably make alot of people happy. Especially those running their own local repos for stuff that need to pull things in from elsewhere.
On Fri, May 21, 2021 at 1:18 AM Jack Aboutboul jack@almalinux.org wrote:
On May 20, 2021, at 20:58, Michel Alexandre Salim michel@michel-slm.name wrote:
My pipe dream (doable, but I probably want to wait for the DNF -> microdnf rewrite dust to settle) is to be able to declare dependencies between repos.
e.g.
epel-release recommends (repo(PowerTools) if centos-stream-repos) => this signals to DNF that, hey, when epel-release is installed, flip PowerTools on, and if likewise PowerTools recommends another repo, it gets transitively enabled as well.
Not for nothing but this would probably make alot of people happy. Especially those running their own local repos for stuff that need to pull things in from elsewhere.
Don't you dare! The dependency resolutions really need to be done on a package by package basis, especially since it's very difficult to predict which third party repos any one repo might require. Compounded by the complexity and instability of "Modular" packaging, it's especially likely to break python RPM dependencies. Older python modules can be incompatibile with newer modules released *after* they were published and are unlikely to be patched in time to refine those dependencies. Been there, done that, yesterday trying to resolve dependencies to build an awxkit RPM.
I can't force people to avoid sweeping changes, but it would be yet another reason not to use CentOS 8 as predictably unstable and deployment fracturing.
On Fri, May 21, 2021 at 2:58 AM Michel Alexandre Salim < michel@michel-slm.name> wrote:
On Wed, 2021-05-19 at 22:17 -0400, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 9:32 PM Michel Alexandre Salim michel@michel-slm.name wrote:
At the Hyperscale SIG, one of the repos we ship (centos-release- hyperscale-hotfixes, which we use to override modular content we need to fix as MBS is not available to SIGs) depends on EPEL (because the packages there, for example libvirt, needs dependencies in EPEL).
EPEL's Quickstart recommends enabling codeready-builder on RHEL8, and the corresponding powertools repo on CentOS 8: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL#Quickstart
Could we possibly just enable powertools by default? CRB is on by default in RHEL8 UBI containers (but weirdly not in the related CentOS Stream containers!).
Good luck with that. Disabling Powertools by default is a RHEL upstream behavior. The segregation of these tools and the disabling of them by default is one of the aspects of RHEL 8 and CentOs 8 that profoundly irritate me, they've so far served no useful purpose and only caused confusion. They do reduce the metadata download requirements somewhat for ordinary yum updates, but that's a distinct issue.
Enabling it by default is available to you as a local configuration option: as you expand a network and go to system management tools like ansible rather than the expensive to set up and painful to manage RHN or spacewalk system, you may wish to automate its activate it by default or write '--enablerepo=PowerTools'' into your dnf installation scripts.
Yeah, we're exploring that option since we'll soon have Hyperscale instalation media anyway.
My pipe dream (doable, but I probably want to wait for the DNF -> microdnf rewrite dust to settle) is to be able to declare dependencies between repos.
+1 that'd be a nice feature
e.g.
epel-release recommends (repo(PowerTools) if centos-stream-repos) => this signals to DNF that, hey, when epel-release is installed, flip PowerTools on, and if likewise PowerTools recommends another repo, it gets transitively enabled as well.
Best regards,
-- Michel Alexandre Salim profile: https://keyoxide.org/michel@michel-slm.name _______________________________________________ CentOS-devel mailing list CentOS-devel@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
On Fri, May 21, 2021 at 3:31 AM Alfredo Moralejo Alonso amoralej@redhat.com wrote:
On Fri, May 21, 2021 at 2:58 AM Michel Alexandre Salim michel@michel-slm.name wrote:
On Wed, 2021-05-19 at 22:17 -0400, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 9:32 PM Michel Alexandre Salim michel@michel-slm.name wrote:
At the Hyperscale SIG, one of the repos we ship (centos-release- hyperscale-hotfixes, which we use to override modular content we need to fix as MBS is not available to SIGs) depends on EPEL (because the packages there, for example libvirt, needs dependencies in EPEL).
EPEL's Quickstart recommends enabling codeready-builder on RHEL8, and the corresponding powertools repo on CentOS 8: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL#Quickstart
Could we possibly just enable powertools by default? CRB is on by default in RHEL8 UBI containers (but weirdly not in the related CentOS Stream containers!).
Good luck with that. Disabling Powertools by default is a RHEL upstream behavior. The segregation of these tools and the disabling of them by default is one of the aspects of RHEL 8 and CentOs 8 that profoundly irritate me, they've so far served no useful purpose and only caused confusion. They do reduce the metadata download requirements somewhat for ordinary yum updates, but that's a distinct issue.
Enabling it by default is available to you as a local configuration option: as you expand a network and go to system management tools like ansible rather than the expensive to set up and painful to manage RHN or spacewalk system, you may wish to automate its activate it by default or write '--enablerepo=PowerTools'' into your dnf installation scripts.
Yeah, we're exploring that option since we'll soon have Hyperscale instalation media anyway.
My pipe dream (doable, but I probably want to wait for the DNF -> microdnf rewrite dust to settle) is to be able to declare dependencies between repos.
+1 that'd be a nice feature
e.g.
epel-release recommends (repo(PowerTools) if centos-stream-repos) => this signals to DNF that, hey, when epel-release is installed, flip PowerTools on, and if likewise PowerTools recommends another repo, it gets transitively enabled as well.
Has someone made a feature request to DNF for this on Red Hat Bugzilla?
-- 真実はいつも一つ！/ Always, there's only one truth!
On Fri, 2021-05-21 at 06:32 -0400, Neal Gompa wrote:
On Fri, May 21, 2021 at 3:31 AM Alfredo Moralejo Alonso amoralej@redhat.com wrote:
On Fri, May 21, 2021 at 2:58 AM Michel Alexandre Salim < michel@michel-slm.name> wrote:
On Wed, 2021-05-19 at 22:17 -0400, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 9:32 PM Michel Alexandre Salim michel@michel-slm.name wrote:
At the Hyperscale SIG, one of the repos we ship (centos- release- hyperscale-hotfixes, which we use to override modular content we need to fix as MBS is not available to SIGs) depends on EPEL (because the packages there, for example libvirt, needs dependencies in EPEL).
EPEL's Quickstart recommends enabling codeready-builder on RHEL8, and the corresponding powertools repo on CentOS 8: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL#Quickstart
Could we possibly just enable powertools by default? CRB is on by default in RHEL8 UBI containers (but weirdly not in the related CentOS Stream containers!).
Good luck with that. Disabling Powertools by default is a RHEL upstream behavior. The segregation of these tools and the disabling of them by default is one of the aspects of RHEL 8 and CentOs 8 that profoundly irritate me, they've so far served no useful purpose and only caused confusion. They do reduce the metadata download requirements somewhat for ordinary yum updates, but that's a distinct issue.
Enabling it by default is available to you as a local configuration option: as you expand a network and go to system management tools like ansible rather than the expensive to set up and painful to manage RHN or spacewalk system, you may wish to automate its activate it by default or write '--enablerepo=PowerTools'' into your dnf installation scripts.
Yeah, we're exploring that option since we'll soon have Hyperscale instalation media anyway.
My pipe dream (doable, but I probably want to wait for the DNF -> microdnf rewrite dust to settle) is to be able to declare dependencies between repos.
+1 that'd be a nice feature
e.g.
epel-release recommends (repo(PowerTools) if centos-stream-repos) => this signals to DNF that, hey, when epel-release is installed, flip PowerTools on, and if likewise PowerTools recommends another repo, it gets transitively enabled as well.
Has someone made a feature request to DNF for this on Red Hat Bugzilla?
Not that I know of. I want to bring up the related idea of being able to provide overrides to repo configurations (similar to how systemd let you override files in /usr/lib/systemd in /etc/systemd) to the next DNF community meeting; I can bring this up too as an alternative and see what the core developers think.
Best regards,
On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 10:18 PM Nico Kadel-Garcia nkadel@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 9:32 PM Michel Alexandre Salim michel@michel-slm.name wrote:
At the Hyperscale SIG, one of the repos we ship (centos-release- hyperscale-hotfixes, which we use to override modular content we need to fix as MBS is not available to SIGs) depends on EPEL (because the packages there, for example libvirt, needs dependencies in EPEL).
EPEL's Quickstart recommends enabling codeready-builder on RHEL8, and the corresponding powertools repo on CentOS 8: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL#Quickstart
Could we possibly just enable powertools by default? CRB is on by default in RHEL8 UBI containers (but weirdly not in the related CentOS Stream containers!).
Good luck with that. Disabling Powertools by default is a RHEL upstream behavior. The segregation of these tools and the disabling of them by default is one of the aspects of RHEL 8 and CentOs 8 that profoundly irritate me, they've so far served no useful purpose and only caused confusion. They do reduce the metadata download requirements somewhat for ordinary yum updates, but that's a distinct issue.
For whatever it's worth, CodeReady Builder is disabled by default in RHEL 8 because it is a repository that contains content that is not supported at runtime in production. Enabling it by default would immediately lead to customers depending on unsupported content without any awareness of that dynamic. We want to make sure they're set up to use supported content from the start.
CentOS Stream doesn't have support in the same sense, so PowerTools being disabled is indeed more friction than may be necessary but some of the same principles still apply.
josh
On 21/05/2021 19:36, Josh Boyer wrote:
On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 10:18 PM Nico Kadel-Garcia nkadel@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 9:32 PM Michel Alexandre Salim michel@michel-slm.name wrote:
At the Hyperscale SIG, one of the repos we ship (centos-release- hyperscale-hotfixes, which we use to override modular content we need to fix as MBS is not available to SIGs) depends on EPEL (because the packages there, for example libvirt, needs dependencies in EPEL).
EPEL's Quickstart recommends enabling codeready-builder on RHEL8, and the corresponding powertools repo on CentOS 8: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL#Quickstart
Could we possibly just enable powertools by default? CRB is on by default in RHEL8 UBI containers (but weirdly not in the related CentOS Stream containers!).
Good luck with that. Disabling Powertools by default is a RHEL upstream behavior. The segregation of these tools and the disabling of them by default is one of the aspects of RHEL 8 and CentOs 8 that profoundly irritate me, they've so far served no useful purpose and only caused confusion. They do reduce the metadata download requirements somewhat for ordinary yum updates, but that's a distinct issue.
For whatever it's worth, CodeReady Builder is disabled by default in RHEL 8 because it is a repository that contains content that is not supported at runtime in production. Enabling it by default would immediately lead to customers depending on unsupported content without any awareness of that dynamic. We want to make sure they're set up to use supported content from the start.
Isn't that the same reason Red Hat cites for not including the missing -devel packages in RHEL? If so, I see no reason not to ship them in CodeReady Builder as unsupported, and not enabled by default.
CentOS Stream doesn't have support in the same sense, so PowerTools being disabled is indeed more friction than may be necessary but some of the same principles still apply.
josh
On Sat, May 22, 2021 at 4:38 AM Phil Perry pperry@elrepo.org wrote:
On 21/05/2021 19:36, Josh Boyer wrote:
On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 10:18 PM Nico Kadel-Garcia nkadel@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 9:32 PM Michel Alexandre Salim michel@michel-slm.name wrote:
At the Hyperscale SIG, one of the repos we ship (centos-release- hyperscale-hotfixes, which we use to override modular content we need to fix as MBS is not available to SIGs) depends on EPEL (because the packages there, for example libvirt, needs dependencies in EPEL).
EPEL's Quickstart recommends enabling codeready-builder on RHEL8, and the corresponding powertools repo on CentOS 8: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL#Quickstart
Could we possibly just enable powertools by default? CRB is on by default in RHEL8 UBI containers (but weirdly not in the related CentOS Stream containers!).
Good luck with that. Disabling Powertools by default is a RHEL upstream behavior. The segregation of these tools and the disabling of them by default is one of the aspects of RHEL 8 and CentOs 8 that profoundly irritate me, they've so far served no useful purpose and only caused confusion. They do reduce the metadata download requirements somewhat for ordinary yum updates, but that's a distinct issue.
For whatever it's worth, CodeReady Builder is disabled by default in RHEL 8 because it is a repository that contains content that is not supported at runtime in production. Enabling it by default would immediately lead to customers depending on unsupported content without any awareness of that dynamic. We want to make sure they're set up to use supported content from the start.
Isn't that the same reason Red Hat cites for not including the missing -devel packages in RHEL? If so, I see no reason not to ship them in CodeReady Builder as unsupported, and not enabled by default.
No, that is not the same reason.
As for why we don't ship everything in CodeReady Builder by default, there are a number of different reasons. One of the more nuanced things that come into play is that RHEL provides Application Compatibility Guidelines (ACG) that we adhere to. There are some scenarios where providing a -devel package in CodeReady Builder would have ACG implications.
josh
On 5/19/21 9:17 PM, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 9:32 PM Michel Alexandre Salim michel@michel-slm.name wrote:
At the Hyperscale SIG, one of the repos we ship (centos-release- hyperscale-hotfixes, which we use to override modular content we need to fix as MBS is not available to SIGs) depends on EPEL (because the packages there, for example libvirt, needs dependencies in EPEL).
EPEL's Quickstart recommends enabling codeready-builder on RHEL8, and the corresponding powertools repo on CentOS 8: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL#Quickstart
Could we possibly just enable powertools by default? CRB is on by default in RHEL8 UBI containers (but weirdly not in the related CentOS Stream containers!).
Good luck with that. Disabling Powertools by default is a RHEL upstream behavior. The segregation of these tools and the disabling of them by default is one of the aspects of RHEL 8 and CentOs 8 that profoundly irritate me, they've so far served no useful purpose and only caused confusion. They do reduce the metadata download requirements somewhat for ordinary yum updates, but that's a distinct issue.
I don't actually disagree with you (wow .. a double negative :D) . It is one of the first things I do when i install CentOS 8 or stream .. enable powertools. But as you know, we stick with the RHEL defaults.
Enabling it by default is available to you as a local configuration option: as you expand a network and go to system management tools like ansible rather than the expensive to set up and painful to manage RHN or spacewalk system, you may wish to automate its activate it by default or write '--enablerepo=PowerTools'' into your dnf installation scripts.
-
Alfredo Moralejo Alonso -
Jack Aboutboul -
Johnny Hughes -
Josh Boyer -
Michel Alexandre Salim -
Neal Gompa -
Nico Kadel-Garcia -
Phil Perry