Hi
As in CentOS-6, I think we should skip the CD isos; there is little point in that ( but we should do the minimal ISO, lets keep conversation about that on its own thread ).
The main distro is just a hint over 6.6GB, that means we cant really put all the stuff into a single DVD[1]; so we need to do the splits. In the past, we've done multiple installs making sure that all the installable components from the installer's groups, in english atleast, are all on DVD#1 and the rest can goto DVD#2. I suspect that strategy will work here as well, and does someone want to give it a shot and come up with a list of rpms that are installable via the installer.
If anyone is wondering about the rest: yes, there are rpms included in the distro, hosted in the DVD's that are not installable from the groups available to the user at install time. They can certainly be installed from kickstart, but the general assumption is that people doing those sort of installs are likely not doing them from DVD media.
Also, there seems to be interest in jidgo; has anyone worked with that in the past ? and whats to help us get that setup as well ?
Regards
[1]: maybe we should do a single large 6.6GB ISO as well, and have it available only on torrents, for people who might want or have access to that large format media, or people who just want a copy of the primary repo without using rsync. Thoughts ?
On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 11:02:24PM +0100, Karanbir Singh wrote:
Hi
As in CentOS-6, I think we should skip the CD isos; there is little point in that ( but we should do the minimal ISO, lets keep conversation about that on its own thread ).
The main distro is just a hint over 6.6GB, that means we cant really put all the stuff into a single DVD[1]; so we need to do the splits. In the past, we've done multiple installs making sure that all the installable components from the installer's groups, in english atleast, are all on DVD#1 and the rest can goto DVD#2. I suspect that strategy will work here as well, and does someone want to give it a shot and come up with a list of rpms that are installable via the installer.
If anyone is wondering about the rest: yes, there are rpms included in the distro, hosted in the DVD's that are not installable from the groups available to the user at install time. They can certainly be installed from kickstart, but the general assumption is that people doing those sort of installs are likely not doing them from DVD media.
Also, there seems to be interest in jidgo; has anyone worked with that in the past ? and whats to help us get that setup as well ?
Regards
[1]: maybe we should do a single large 6.6GB ISO as well, and have it available only on torrents, for people who might want or have access to that large format media, or people who just want a copy of the primary repo without using rsync. Thoughts ?
Or for people who don't mind the extra cost of DL writable DVD media. Seems like it would also be useful for people who can install from the iso without having to burn a DVD.
On 25 June 2014 16:02, Karanbir Singh mail-lists@karan.org wrote:
Hi
As in CentOS-6, I think we should skip the CD isos; there is little point in that ( but we should do the minimal ISO, lets keep conversation about that on its own thread ).
The main distro is just a hint over 6.6GB, that means we cant really put all the stuff into a single DVD[1]; so we need to do the splits. In the past, we've done multiple installs making sure that all the installable components from the installer's groups, in english atleast, are all on DVD#1 and the rest can goto DVD#2. I suspect that strategy will work here as well, and does someone want to give it a shot and come up with a list of rpms that are installable via the installer.
If anyone is wondering about the rest: yes, there are rpms included in the distro, hosted in the DVD's that are not installable from the groups available to the user at install time. They can certainly be installed from kickstart, but the general assumption is that people doing those sort of installs are likely not doing them from DVD media.
Also, there seems to be interest in jidgo; has anyone worked with that in the past ? and whats to help us get that setup as well ?
I think we 'tried' it a couple of times in Fedora. It is a nice idea but never got past the 'its a nice idea' stage as most of the people working on it kept finding better things to do with their time :). At which point it became the project for the next people...
Regards
[1]: maybe we should do a single large 6.6GB ISO as well, and have it available only on torrents, for people who might want or have access to that large format media, or people who just want a copy of the primary repo without using rsync. Thoughts ?
A 6.6 GB iso is useful for USB installs.. but at that time you might as well make a 12 GB ISO with all the src.rpms included too. Great booth giveaway and everything.
On 06/25/2014 11:31 PM, Stephen John Smoogen wrote:
A 6.6 GB iso is useful for USB installs.. but at that time you might as well make a 12 GB ISO with all the src.rpms included too. Great booth giveaway and everything.
we might be able to do a single iso that has some livemedia on it as well, and its able to use the rpm payload to run the install ( the regular one ). That too should easily fit inside the space.
But this might need to happen post-release! unless someone wants to submit a patch or contribute code to make it happen now
On 06/26/2014 01:02 AM, Karanbir Singh wrote:
Hi
As in CentOS-6, I think we should skip the CD isos; there is little point in that ( but we should do the minimal ISO, lets keep conversation about that on its own thread ).
I support that. CDs should be phased out, at least as main distribution media. IF there is demand for that, maybe create them and distribute via torrent. But I would not clobber the mirrors with CD-sized ISO images for the main distro
The main distro is just a hint over 6.6GB, that means we cant really put all the stuff into a single DVD[1]; so we need to do the splits. In the past, we've done multiple installs making sure that all the installable components from the installer's groups, in english atleast, are all on DVD#1 and the rest can goto DVD#2. I suspect that strategy will work here as well, and does someone want to give it a shot and come up with a list of rpms that are installable via the installer.
[...]
[1]: maybe we should do a single large 6.6GB ISO as well, and have it available only on torrents, for people who might want or have access to that large format media, or people who just want a copy of the primary repo without using rsync. Thoughts ?
+1 for distributing a single large ISO. A lot of people install from USB sticks and 8GBs ones have become more like a norm than a rarity nowadays. And a 4.7GB iso would not fit on a 4GB stick anyway so a 8GB one would be needed. Which means that the effort for whoever wants to install from a stick would not be "much" ( for a lax definition of much :) ) higher to download a 6.6 GB image instead of a 4.7GB one. I for one would grab the larger one. ... I still have the CentOS 5.7 iso on my phone's SD Card and install from it from time to time.
On 06/26/2014 07:02 PM, Manuel Wolfshant wrote:
On 06/26/2014 01:02 AM, Karanbir Singh wrote:
Hi
As in CentOS-6, I think we should skip the CD isos; there is little point in that ( but we should do the minimal ISO, lets keep conversation about that on its own thread ).
I support that. CDs should be phased out, at least as main distribution media. IF there is demand for that, maybe create them and distribute via torrent. But I would not clobber the mirrors with CD-sized ISO images for the main distro
The main distro is just a hint over 6.6GB, that means we cant really put all the stuff into a single DVD[1]; so we need to do the splits. In the past, we've done multiple installs making sure that all the installable components from the installer's groups, in english atleast, are all on DVD#1 and the rest can goto DVD#2. I suspect that strategy will work here as well, and does someone want to give it a shot and come up with a list of rpms that are installable via the installer.
[...]
[1]: maybe we should do a single large 6.6GB ISO as well, and have it available only on torrents, for people who might want or have access to that large format media, or people who just want a copy of the primary repo without using rsync. Thoughts ?
+1 for distributing a single large ISO. A lot of people install from USB sticks and 8GBs ones have become more like a norm than a rarity nowadays. And a 4.7GB iso would not fit on a 4GB stick anyway so a 8GB one would be needed. Which means that the effort for whoever wants to install from a stick would not be "much" ( for a lax definition of much :) ) higher to download a 6.6 GB image instead of a 4.7GB one. I for one would grab the larger one. ... I still have the CentOS 5.7 iso on my phone's SD Card and install from it from time to time.
Although you are right for people with fast internet, there are still thousands of people in undeveloped countries that have pay-by-MB internet, some even only dial-up lines.
So I suggest those CD ISO's to be built, no need to build them in prime-time download frenzy, but they should exist, even if only on some mirrors or in vault (small bandwidth users can not clog the server).
On 06/27/2014 12:01 AM, Ljubomir Ljubojevic wrote:
On 06/26/2014 07:02 PM, Manuel Wolfshant wrote:
On 06/26/2014 01:02 AM, Karanbir Singh wrote:
Hi
As in CentOS-6, I think we should skip the CD isos; there is little point in that ( but we should do the minimal ISO, lets keep conversation about that on its own thread ).
I support that. CDs should be phased out, at least as main distribution media. IF there is demand for that, maybe create them and distribute via torrent. But I would not clobber the mirrors with CD-sized ISO images for the main distro
The main distro is just a hint over 6.6GB, that means we cant really put all the stuff into a single DVD[1]; so we need to do the splits. In the past, we've done multiple installs making sure that all the installable components from the installer's groups, in english atleast, are all on DVD#1 and the rest can goto DVD#2. I suspect that strategy will work here as well, and does someone want to give it a shot and come up with a list of rpms that are installable via the installer.
[...]
[1]: maybe we should do a single large 6.6GB ISO as well, and have it available only on torrents, for people who might want or have access to that large format media, or people who just want a copy of the primary repo without using rsync. Thoughts ?
+1 for distributing a single large ISO. A lot of people install from USB sticks and 8GBs ones have become more like a norm than a rarity nowadays. And a 4.7GB iso would not fit on a 4GB stick anyway so a 8GB one would be needed. Which means that the effort for whoever wants to install from a stick would not be "much" ( for a lax definition of much :) ) higher to download a 6.6 GB image instead of a 4.7GB one. I for one would grab the larger one. ... I still have the CentOS 5.7 iso on my phone's SD Card and install from it from time to time.
Although you are right for people with fast internet, there are still thousands of people in undeveloped countries that have pay-by-MB internet, some even only dial-up lines.
So I suggest those CD ISO's to be built, no need to build them in prime-time download frenzy, but they should exist, even if only on some mirrors or in vault (small bandwidth users can not clog the server).
They'd still need to download a bunch of CD images in order to be able to do an install. And at this point they'd rather get the minimal.iso and then use yum to add whatever they need. yum groupinstall <bunch of desktop related groups> will not be more painful than downloading the isos.
On 06/26/2014 11:53 PM, Manuel Wolfshant wrote:
On 06/27/2014 12:01 AM, Ljubomir Ljubojevic wrote:
On 06/26/2014 07:02 PM, Manuel Wolfshant wrote:
On 06/26/2014 01:02 AM, Karanbir Singh wrote:
Hi
As in CentOS-6, I think we should skip the CD isos; there is little point in that ( but we should do the minimal ISO, lets keep conversation about that on its own thread ).
I support that. CDs should be phased out, at least as main distribution media. IF there is demand for that, maybe create them and distribute via torrent. But I would not clobber the mirrors with CD-sized ISO images for the main distro
The main distro is just a hint over 6.6GB, that means we cant really put all the stuff into a single DVD[1]; so we need to do the splits. In the past, we've done multiple installs making sure that all the installable components from the installer's groups, in english atleast, are all on DVD#1 and the rest can goto DVD#2. I suspect that strategy will work here as well, and does someone want to give it a shot and come up with a list of rpms that are installable via the installer.
[...]
[1]: maybe we should do a single large 6.6GB ISO as well, and have it available only on torrents, for people who might want or have access to that large format media, or people who just want a copy of the primary repo without using rsync. Thoughts ?
+1 for distributing a single large ISO. A lot of people install from USB sticks and 8GBs ones have become more like a norm than a rarity nowadays. And a 4.7GB iso would not fit on a 4GB stick anyway so a 8GB one would be needed. Which means that the effort for whoever wants to install from a stick would not be "much" ( for a lax definition of much :) ) higher to download a 6.6 GB image instead of a 4.7GB one. I for one would grab the larger one. ... I still have the CentOS 5.7 iso on my phone's SD Card and install from it from time to time.
Although you are right for people with fast internet, there are still thousands of people in undeveloped countries that have pay-by-MB internet, some even only dial-up lines.
So I suggest those CD ISO's to be built, no need to build them in prime-time download frenzy, but they should exist, even if only on some mirrors or in vault (small bandwidth users can not clog the server).
They'd still need to download a bunch of CD images in order to be able to do an install. And at this point they'd rather get the minimal.iso and then use yum to add whatever they need. yum groupinstall <bunch of desktop related groups> will not be more painful than downloading the isos.
I was more referring to CD1, mostly enough to install Desktop/Server and then update/add when they have internet connection.
There was a fair number of people who would pay their "ISP" (in a broad sense of the word) or a friend/company, and then some have slow direct internet connection and others manually download rpm's and install them off-line.
Imagine installing from minimal ISO and then wait hours on dialup to install.
So paying for CD ISO (less money) to be able to install full desktop, and then using slow internet connection for the rest.
On 06/26/2014 05:08 PM, Ljubomir Ljubojevic wrote:
On 06/26/2014 11:53 PM, Manuel Wolfshant wrote:
On 06/27/2014 12:01 AM, Ljubomir Ljubojevic wrote:
On 06/26/2014 07:02 PM, Manuel Wolfshant wrote:
On 06/26/2014 01:02 AM, Karanbir Singh wrote:
Hi
As in CentOS-6, I think we should skip the CD isos; there is little point in that ( but we should do the minimal ISO, lets keep conversation about that on its own thread ).
I support that. CDs should be phased out, at least as main distribution media. IF there is demand for that, maybe create them and distribute via torrent. But I would not clobber the mirrors with CD-sized ISO images for the main distro
The main distro is just a hint over 6.6GB, that means we cant really put all the stuff into a single DVD[1]; so we need to do the splits. In the past, we've done multiple installs making sure that all the installable components from the installer's groups, in english atleast, are all on DVD#1 and the rest can goto DVD#2. I suspect that strategy will work here as well, and does someone want to give it a shot and come up with a list of rpms that are installable via the installer.
[...]
[1]: maybe we should do a single large 6.6GB ISO as well, and have it available only on torrents, for people who might want or have access to that large format media, or people who just want a copy of the primary repo without using rsync. Thoughts ?
+1 for distributing a single large ISO. A lot of people install from USB sticks and 8GBs ones have become more like a norm than a rarity nowadays. And a 4.7GB iso would not fit on a 4GB stick anyway so a 8GB one would be needed. Which means that the effort for whoever wants to install from a stick would not be "much" ( for a lax definition of much :) ) higher to download a 6.6 GB image instead of a 4.7GB one. I for one would grab the larger one. ... I still have the CentOS 5.7 iso on my phone's SD Card and install from it from time to time.
Although you are right for people with fast internet, there are still thousands of people in undeveloped countries that have pay-by-MB internet, some even only dial-up lines.
So I suggest those CD ISO's to be built, no need to build them in prime-time download frenzy, but they should exist, even if only on some mirrors or in vault (small bandwidth users can not clog the server).
They'd still need to download a bunch of CD images in order to be able to do an install. And at this point they'd rather get the minimal.iso and then use yum to add whatever they need. yum groupinstall <bunch of desktop related groups> will not be more painful than downloading the isos.
I was more referring to CD1, mostly enough to install Desktop/Server and then update/add when they have internet connection.
There was a fair number of people who would pay their "ISP" (in a broad sense of the word) or a friend/company, and then some have slow direct internet connection and others manually download rpm's and install them off-line.
Imagine installing from minimal ISO and then wait hours on dialup to install.
So paying for CD ISO (less money) to be able to install full desktop, and then using slow internet connection for the rest.
We will also have a the following:
1. Minimal Install <something> (the something depends on the size when done, DVD or CD, depending on > or < 700MB) - This will be defined as matching a Minimal ISO from the DVD
2. Network Install - the boot.iso from the images directory right now
3. Micro Install - this will be a pared down version of the Minimal Install if people want it
Any of those that end up less than 700 MB will be on a CD.
However, what we are talking about here is not a subset install, but the full distro install. And that is what we are talking about not also producing and distributing. It would likely be 10-15 CDs full of stuff. I don't see a need for that format. Minimal, Network, maybe Micro and 2-3 DVD's for full tree.
On 06/27/2014 09:20 PM, Johnny Hughes wrote:
Any of those that end up less than 700 MB will be on a CD.
However, what we are talking about here is not a subset install, but the full distro install. And that is what we are talking about not also producing and distributing. It would likely be 10-15 CDs full of stuff. I don't see a need for that format. Minimal, Network, maybe Micro and 2-3 DVD's for full tree.
+1 here. Worth mentioning that we'll also have live{CD,DVD}, on top of the 3 already mentioned installation methods.
On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 6:02 PM, Karanbir Singh mail-lists@karan.org wrote:
Also, there seems to be interest in jidgo; has anyone worked with that in the past ? and whats to help us get that setup as well ?
Jigdo is a bit of a mess. The code is essentially unmaintained, but it works, if not always optimally.
It's not too complicated, though. Just use the jigdo-file command to make a jigdo template from an iso and set of contained files. Likewise you can use the same command to remake the image from the template+files (or verify it). The man page for jigdo-file is reasonably clear.
There is also a basic gui tool to make downloading and reassembling easier for the end user.
26.6.2014 1.02, Karanbir Singh kirjoitti:
The main distro is just a hint over 6.6GB, that means we cant really put all the stuff into a single DVD[1]; so we need to do the splits. In the past, we've done multiple installs making sure that all the installable components from the installer's groups, in english atleast, are all on DVD#1 and the rest can goto DVD#2. I suspect that strategy will work here as well, and does someone want to give it a shot and come up with a list of rpms that are installable via the installer.
I extracted a list of all packages from the current c7-x86_64-comps.xml ( available at https://git.centos.org/tree/sig-core!comps.git ), and installed them and their dependencies in a chroot, then had a look at what actually got installed.
I also installed a few VMs to test which packages the installer will pull in by itself for mdraid, encrypted filesystems and UEFI support.
The end result is that the rpms listed at http://miuku.net/tmp/7-installable-rpms.txt are installable from the installer, whereas the rpms listed at http://miuku.net/tmp/7-other-rpms.txt are not.
The packages on the first list are about 3.5GB in total. I would suggest to place them on the first DVD. Do note that the installer will also take some space from the first DVD. The other packages (some 2.4GB) can be put on the 2nd DVD.
Disclaimer: If c7-x86_64-comps.xml is somehow incorrect, my method will produce incorrect results. Garbage in, garbage out.
Post scriptum: I tried to verify my findings by doing a real "Server with GUI" installation. It ended up installing a few more packages than I had expected, namely these:
ocaml-brlapi-0.6.0-8.el7.x86_64.rpm tcl-brlapi-0.6.0-8.el7.x86_64.rpm python-isomd5sum-1.0.10-4.el7.x86_64.rpm python-libteam-1.9-15.el7.x86_64.rpm pinentry-gtk-0.8.1-14.el7.x86_64.rpm quota-warnquota-4.01-11.el7.x86_64.rpm
These are not mentioned in comps.xml, and no other package seems to require them either. If you can figure out how they ended up getting installed, please tell.
This may mean that the lists I provided above may be incorrect. I can redo the lists once I figure out what went wrong.
28.6.2014 1.36, Anssi Johansson kirjoitti:
Post scriptum: I tried to verify my findings by doing a real "Server with GUI" installation. It ended up installing a few more packages than I had expected, namely these:
ocaml-brlapi-0.6.0-8.el7.x86_64.rpm tcl-brlapi-0.6.0-8.el7.x86_64.rpm python-isomd5sum-1.0.10-4.el7.x86_64.rpm python-libteam-1.9-15.el7.x86_64.rpm pinentry-gtk-0.8.1-14.el7.x86_64.rpm quota-warnquota-4.01-11.el7.x86_64.rpm
These are not mentioned in comps.xml, and no other package seems to require them either. If you can figure out how they ended up getting installed, please tell.
Ahem.. This was mostly a scripting error. I didn't actually have (most) of those packages installed. I did have packages brlapi-0.6.0-8, isomd5sum-1.0.10-4, libteam-1.9-15 and quota-4.01-11 installed, and my grep-fu failed :-/
pinentry-gtk is a slightly different case, though. It really got installed on the real "Server with GUI" installation, but didn't get installed on my chroot installation.
It was apparently a dependency for seahorse. seahorse does not depend on pinentry-gtk, but it depends on pinentry-gui. pinentry-gui is provided by multiple packages: pinentry-gtk, pinentry-qt and pinentry-qt4. Apparently I had pinentry-qt already installed when seahorse was being installed. This meant pinentry-gtk didn't get pulled in.
So it looks like the lists may need to be tweaked a bit, but for the most part they should be okay.
28.6.2014 4.21, Anssi Johansson kirjoitti:
So it looks like the lists may need to be tweaked a bit, but for the most part they should be okay.
I took a slightly different approach to this problem. This time I based my rpm list on what actually got installed. I also noticed that the comps file mentions a number of packages that are actually not selectable from the installer, such as irssi. My previous list included those optional unselectable packages as well, but it turns out this wasn't such a good idea. I think DVD1 should contain only packages that can actually be installed with the installer. If someone needs more packages than that, he/she can install them with yum, or download the 2nd DVD as well and install from there.
There are only nine "Base Environments" that can be selected from the installer, namely these:
Minimal Install Infrastructure Server File and Print Server Basic Web Server Virtualization Host Server with GUI Gnome Desktop KDE Plasma Workspaces Development and Creative Workstation
I did a full install of each, selecting all the Add-Ons for Selected Environment, and recorded which rpms got installed. Actually I did two installs of each to bring a little bit of variety to the mix: the first one got installed with addons 1, 3, 5... and the second one got installed with addons 2, 4, 6..., and finally I merged the package lists of the two variants into one.
The lists are available at http://miuku.net/tmp/7packages/ (see the 7packages_* files).
I had already determined a list of packages that the installer might pull in by itself in some specific situations, such as when installing on encrypted filesystems. A list of these can be found at http://miuku.net/tmp/7packages/7pkgs-exotic.txt
There is also a number of language packs that get installed based on language support. That list is at http://miuku.net/tmp/7packages/7pkgs-langpacks.txt
Combining all of the above, I ended up with a list of 2947 packages. This list led to a nice split of 3.2GB / 2.8GB for each DVD.
I also moved a few metapackages from the DVD2 candidate list to DVD1, namely those listed at http://miuku.net/tmp/7packages/7pkgs-metapackages.txt . Most of the packages that are required by those metapackages were already on DVD1. These are not all the metapackages, but only the ones I thought might be the most useful. Having these metapackages on DVD1 might be more relevant for CentOS 7.next -- if someone has installed libreoffice with "yum install libreoffice" and then later on does an upgrade from CentOS 7.next's DVD1, he/she would be annoyed if the libreoffice metapackage was on DVD2, even if all the other libreoffice packages were on DVD1.
I now had a list of 2952 packages, but I knew the metapackages I added will pull in a few more packages. I also knew that if someone does not select all the addon groups from the installer, it may affect package dependency resolution by using some alternative package to satisfy the dependencies.
I used a brute force approach to determine which packages would be brought in if the package installation order was different. I randomized the candidate package list, and installed each package on the list (and its dependencies) one by one. I repeated this process 17 times. You may be surprised by this, but each of those 17 installations ended up with a slightly different installed package set, even if the set of packages to install was the same for every install round, only in different order. The list of packages that got added at this phase is at http://miuku.net/tmp/7packages/7pkgs-first-round-additions.txt
At this stage I set up a feedback loop, where any new packages added during one installation round were added as input for the next installation round. I let this run for a night, and in the morning I was happy to notice that the script hadn't found any new packages that would need to be added.
Here's the final split according to my proposal: $ du -s dvd* 3339792 dvd1 2822120 dvd2
$ wc -l c7-dvd* 2987 c7-dvd1-rpms.txt 5478 c7-dvd2-rpms.txt 8465 total
Here's my proposal for the split: http://miuku.net/tmp/7packages/c7-dvd1-rpms.txt http://miuku.net/tmp/7packages/c7-dvd2-rpms.txt
N.B. I set up a local mirror for these installs, I did not do 50+ CentOS installs using buildlogs.c.o as the installation source..
On 06/30/2014 09:17 AM, Anssi Johansson wrote:
Here's the final split according to my proposal: $ du -s dvd* 3339792 dvd1 2822120 dvd2
$ wc -l c7-dvd* 2987 c7-dvd1-rpms.txt 5478 c7-dvd2-rpms.txt 8465 total
Here's my proposal for the split: http://miuku.net/tmp/7packages/c7-dvd1-rpms.txt http://miuku.net/tmp/7packages/c7-dvd2-rpms.txt
This is fantasic bit of work - reading through the email, I agree - this should give us a pretty good idea on the split.
One point though - if we were to do :
dvd#1.iso dvd#2.iso ( which contains things otherwise not installable via the installer )
and a distro-everything.iso ( at about 7GB, for people who want to host it on USB keys and nfs mounts etc ),
then is there any point in the dvd#2 ? if people cant use it install time ?
- KB
Greetings,
----- Original Message -----
and a distro-everything.iso ( at about 7GB, for people who want to host it on USB keys and nfs mounts etc ),
Don't forget about Dual-Layer DVDs which has basically twice as much storage capacity as two Single Layer DVDs... and a 7GB .iso should fit on a DL DVD just fine. The physical media that Fedora distributes is actually a DL disk that has both 32/64-bit flavors of 5 or so desktop spins... and you can install any of them from that one DL DVD.
then is there any point in the dvd#2 ? if people cant use it install time ?
I wouldn't think so. Debian used to produce CD and DVD images for their entire package base... and Debian ended up being 50+ CDs... but who really downloaded all of that and who would want to mirror it? Fedora gave up producing media for everything some time ago.
TYL,
On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 11:07 AM, Scott Dowdle dowdle@montanalinux.org wrote:
I wouldn't think so. Debian used to produce CD and DVD images for their entire package base... and Debian ended up being 50+ CDs... but who really downloaded all of that and who would want to mirror it? Fedora gave up producing media for everything some time ago.
In older Centos releases the CD images were handy because you could rsync them to an NFS-exported directory, and do a network install without having to do anything else, but I don't think that works any more - or at least you have to extract the images directory first. Now I think the easiest approach is to install a minimal CD iso, then 'yum install big_list_of_packages'. Especially since you'll end up getting a lot of them as updates immediately anyway if you install them from DVDs. It might be useful to publish the 'big_list_of_packages' for the sets that you can choose in a DVD install so you could match them easily.
On 30/06/14 17:44, Karanbir Singh wrote:
On 06/30/2014 09:17 AM, Anssi Johansson wrote:
Here's the final split according to my proposal: $ du -s dvd* 3339792 dvd1 2822120 dvd2
$ wc -l c7-dvd* 2987 c7-dvd1-rpms.txt 5478 c7-dvd2-rpms.txt 8465 total
Here's my proposal for the split: http://miuku.net/tmp/7packages/c7-dvd1-rpms.txt http://miuku.net/tmp/7packages/c7-dvd2-rpms.txt
This is fantasic bit of work - reading through the email, I agree - this should give us a pretty good idea on the split.
One point though - if we were to do :
dvd#1.iso dvd#2.iso ( which contains things otherwise not installable via the installer )
and a distro-everything.iso ( at about 7GB, for people who want to host it on USB keys and nfs mounts etc ),
then is there any point in the dvd#2 ? if people cant use it install time ?
- KB
If packages on DVD#2 aren't installed by a rpm dep from packages on DVD #1, and that those packages aren't referenced in the comps.xml (that can force packages to be installed without any rpm dep), I'd be inclined to skip dvd #2, and just have all those packages on the mirrors (and included in the distro-everything.iso, that can be used on a usb stick)
On 06/30/2014 05:07 PM, Fabian Arrotin wrote:
On 30/06/14 17:44, Karanbir Singh wrote:
On 06/30/2014 09:17 AM, Anssi Johansson wrote:
Here's the final split according to my proposal: $ du -s dvd* 3339792 dvd1 2822120 dvd2
$ wc -l c7-dvd* 2987 c7-dvd1-rpms.txt 5478 c7-dvd2-rpms.txt 8465 total
Here's my proposal for the split: http://miuku.net/tmp/7packages/c7-dvd1-rpms.txt http://miuku.net/tmp/7packages/c7-dvd2-rpms.txt
This is fantasic bit of work - reading through the email, I agree - this should give us a pretty good idea on the split.
One point though - if we were to do :
dvd#1.iso dvd#2.iso ( which contains things otherwise not installable via the installer )
and a distro-everything.iso ( at about 7GB, for people who want to host it on USB keys and nfs mounts etc ),
then is there any point in the dvd#2 ? if people cant use it install time ?
- KB
If packages on DVD#2 aren't installed by a rpm dep from packages on DVD #1, and that those packages aren't referenced in the comps.xml (that can force packages to be installed without any rpm dep), I'd be inclined to skip dvd #2, and just have all those packages on the mirrors (and included in the distro-everything.iso, that can be used on a usb stick)
we'd need to be very very sure that dvd#2 does not get anything that might otherwise get used from the installer.
30.6.2014 19.11, Karanbir Singh kirjoitti:
If packages on DVD#2 aren't installed by a rpm dep from packages on DVD #1, and that those packages aren't referenced in the comps.xml (that can force packages to be installed without any rpm dep), I'd be inclined to skip dvd #2, and just have all those packages on the mirrors (and included in the distro-everything.iso, that can be used on a usb stick)
we'd need to be very very sure that dvd#2 does not get anything that might otherwise get used from the installer.
I can see one possible problem: someone adds an external repository in the installer, and that external repo has dependencies on CentOS packages that aren't on DVD1.
This can be taken care of at the Release Notes level: If you intend to use third party repositories during installation, you may need to use the everything.iso to satisfy all package dependencies. If you install the third party repository after installation, the DVD image is sufficient.
In any case, we'd need to do testing to make sure the first (and only?) DVD image has all the necessary packages.
On 06/30/2014 05:23 PM, Anssi Johansson wrote:
30.6.2014 19.11, Karanbir Singh kirjoitti:
If packages on DVD#2 aren't installed by a rpm dep from packages on DVD #1, and that those packages aren't referenced in the comps.xml (that can force packages to be installed without any rpm dep), I'd be inclined to skip dvd #2, and just have all those packages on the mirrors (and included in the distro-everything.iso, that can be used on a usb stick)
we'd need to be very very sure that dvd#2 does not get anything that might otherwise get used from the installer.
I can see one possible problem: someone adds an external repository in the installer, and that external repo has dependencies on CentOS packages that aren't on DVD1.
And we also need to make sure that all the content needed to build the installer itself is present on the DVD1 repos
30.6.2014 18.44, Karanbir Singh kirjoitti:
One point though - if we were to do :
dvd#1.iso dvd#2.iso ( which contains things otherwise not installable via the installer )
and a distro-everything.iso ( at about 7GB, for people who want to host it on USB keys and nfs mounts etc ),
then is there any point in the dvd#2 ? if people cant use it install time ?
You're right. If there's going to be an everything.iso, there is little point in having a DVD#2. Those who want to make a full install can do so from DVD1 alone. Those who need to transfer all the rpms in one convenient verifiable package can use the everything.iso, to be used with a dual-layer DVD or USB memory stick, or loop mounted somewhere.
On 30/06/14 18:11, Anssi Johansson wrote:
30.6.2014 18.44, Karanbir Singh kirjoitti:
One point though - if we were to do :
dvd#1.iso dvd#2.iso ( which contains things otherwise not installable via the installer )
and a distro-everything.iso ( at about 7GB, for people who want to host it on USB keys and nfs mounts etc ),
then is there any point in the dvd#2 ? if people cant use it install time ?
You're right. If there's going to be an everything.iso, there is little point in having a DVD#2. Those who want to make a full install can do so from DVD1 alone. Those who need to transfer all the rpms in one convenient verifiable package can use the everything.iso, to be used with a dual-layer DVD or USB memory stick, or loop mounted somewhere.
So, with that idea in mind, here is what I did to generate a packages list for DVD#1: - install a minimal system (in uefi, to have efibootmgr, shim, etc .. and also using md device/luks) - extract all packages mentioned in the comps.xml - install all those packages (that triggered dependencies too) - creating a list of all those installed packages (mentioned in the comps + deps)
I attach the full list and also a diff with the one Anssi created previously (http://miuku.net/tmp/7packages/c7-dvd1-rpms.txt)
I then composed a local tree from that list and size is : 3.9G total
I then reinstalled a new basic VM from that tree, and then verified I could install all the packages correctly
On 02/07/14 15:21, Fabian Arrotin wrote:
On 30/06/14 18:11, Anssi Johansson wrote:
30.6.2014 18.44, Karanbir Singh kirjoitti:
One point though - if we were to do :
dvd#1.iso dvd#2.iso ( which contains things otherwise not installable via the installer )
and a distro-everything.iso ( at about 7GB, for people who want to host it on USB keys and nfs mounts etc ),
then is there any point in the dvd#2 ? if people cant use it install time ?
You're right. If there's going to be an everything.iso, there is little point in having a DVD#2. Those who want to make a full install can do so from DVD1 alone. Those who need to transfer all the rpms in one convenient verifiable package can use the everything.iso, to be used with a dual-layer DVD or USB memory stick, or loop mounted somewhere.
So, with that idea in mind, here is what I did to generate a packages list for DVD#1:
- install a minimal system (in uefi, to have efibootmgr, shim, etc ..
and also using md device/luks)
- extract all packages mentioned in the comps.xml
- install all those packages (that triggered dependencies too)
- creating a list of all those installed packages (mentioned in the
comps + deps)
I attach the full list and also a diff with the one Anssi created previously (http://miuku.net/tmp/7packages/c7-dvd1-rpms.txt)
I then composed a local tree from that list and size is : 3.9G total
I then reinstalled a new basic VM from that tree, and then verified I could install all the packages correctly
I forgot to mention that I also ran repoclosure on it : repoclosure Reading in repository metadata - please wait.... Checking Dependencies Repos looked at: 1 dvd Num Packages in Repos: 3515
On 07/02/2014 02:22 PM, Fabian Arrotin wrote:
I attach the full list and also a diff with the one Anssi created previously (http://miuku.net/tmp/7packages/c7-dvd1-rpms.txt)
I then composed a local tree from that list and size is : 3.9G total
thanks for all the work on this - I think its a good place to start from ( and potentially end at ).
the main iso for Everything.iso is now in the QA targets, and I will start working on this build as well in the evening today.
-
Anssi Johansson -
Fabian Arrotin -
Fred Smith -
Johnny Hughes -
Karanbir Singh -
Les Mikesell -
Ljubomir Ljubojevic -
Manuel Wolfshant -
Mike McLean -
Scott Dowdle -
Stephen John Smoogen