Hi,
I will like to congratulate the Centos Team for getting selected in GSOC 2015. Looking forward to work with them this summer.
I have gone through the ideas listed on the centos ideas page and i am interested in working on "Rootfs build factory".
http://wiki.centos.org/GSoC/2015/Ideas#rootfs-build-factory
Regards, Saket Sinha
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On 03/02/2015 11:21 AM, Saket Sinha wrote:
Hi,
I will like to congratulate the Centos Team for getting selected in GSOC 2015. Looking forward to work with them this summer.
I have gone through the ideas listed on the centos ideas page and i am interested in working on "Rootfs build factory".
Thanks, much appreciated!
Also, glad to see you are following the getting involved process.
Heads up to the mailing list here that we are going to be having increased discussions now between mentors and students on this mailing list. We're going to use the centos-gsoc@ mailing list mainly for administrivia. All the developer discussions should circle around this list and/or #centos-devel on Freenode.
Over the next few days we'll be getting the mentors to join via the GSoC web app, and quickly spin up how things are going to work. We have a long lead time between now and the summer so that students can write up good proposals with mentors' help, and have time to get to know each other as individuals and a group before the summer coding season kicks off.
Regards,
- - Karsten - -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade .^\ CentOS Doer of Stuff http://TheOpenSourceWay.org \ http://community.redhat.com @quaid (identi.ca/twitter/IRC) \v' gpg: AD0E0C41
On 03/02/2015 08:04 PM, Karsten Wade wrote:
On 03/02/2015 11:21 AM, Saket Sinha wrote:
Hi,
I will like to congratulate the Centos Team for getting selected in GSOC 2015. Looking forward to work with them this summer.
I have gone through the ideas listed on the centos ideas page and i am interested in working on "Rootfs build factory".
Thanks, much appreciated!
Also, glad to see you are following the getting involved process.
Heads up to the mailing list here that we are going to be having increased discussions now between mentors and students on this mailing list. We're going to use the centos-gsoc@ mailing list mainly for administrivia. All the developer discussions should circle around this list and/or #centos-devel on Freenode.
Just to be clear here, you meant that the centos-gsoc[1] list was going to be used for the GSoC specific content and the gsocadmin[2] list was for the adminstration stuff right ? Thats what we say on the wiki pages[3] and thats my understanding on how things are setup.
Lets not move the gsoc specific content to centos-devel if we dont need to.
The wiki also talks about a centos-gsoc-mentors@centos.org list, which does not exist. And I dont see any requests for it, do we want to skip that and just use the gsocadmin list for the same scope instead ?
Over the next few days we'll be getting the mentors to join via the GSoC web app, and quickly spin up how things are going to work. We have a long lead time between now and the summer so that students can write up good proposals with mentors' help, and have time to get to know each other as individuals and a group before the summer coding season kicks off.
I'm also going to start reaching out to all the mentors to make sure we have scope and integration points consolidated for all the efforts that ramp up, and make sure we're all integrating, deliverying code etc in a single process ( and finally, make sure that the work scope is relevant for a 3 month dev cycle ).
ref: 1) http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-gsoc 2) http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-gsocadmin 3) http://wiki.centos.org/GSoC/HowToApply
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On 03/03/2015 05:09 AM, Karanbir Singh wrote:
On 03/02/2015 08:04 PM, Karsten Wade wrote:
On 03/02/2015 11:21 AM, Saket Sinha wrote:
Hi,
I will like to congratulate the Centos Team for getting selected in GSOC 2015. Looking forward to work with them this summer.
I have gone through the ideas listed on the centos ideas page and i am interested in working on "Rootfs build factory".
Thanks, much appreciated!
Also, glad to see you are following the getting involved process.
Heads up to the mailing list here that we are going to be having increased discussions now between mentors and students on this mailing list. We're going to use the centos-gsoc@ mailing list mainly for administrivia. All the developer discussions should circle around this list and/or #centos-devel on Freenode.
Just to be clear here, you meant that the centos-gsoc[1] list was going to be used for the GSoC specific content and the gsocadmin[2] list was for the adminstration stuff right ? Thats what we say on the wiki pages[3] and thats my understanding on how things are setup.
Lets not move the gsoc specific content to centos-devel if we dont need to.
I think we're saying the same thing. Does this align?
* If it's administrivia about how GSoC runs in the project, discussions on dates & timing, announcements that specific deadlines are approaching, etc. == centos-gsoc@
* If it's about developing code, working with the community, integrating with upstream and across the ecosystem, etc. == centos-devel@
Goal being to keep the GSoC-specific noise off this list, but keep all CentOS development on this list. GSoC students are generally considered to be actively developing for the project (as new contributors), so should be using all the usual communication channels.
If I don't have that right, let me know the concern.
The wiki also talks about a centos-gsoc-mentors@centos.org list, which does not exist. And I dont see any requests for it, do we want to skip that and just use the gsocadmin list for the same scope instead ?
We need a private list for the mentors/admins, as we have to have frank/honest discussions about students that should not be public. I forgot the list didn't exist/got the name wrong, so I can request it, or we can (re)use centos-gsocadmin. (There is no need for administrators to have a list separate from mentors, the best practice is to have mentors + admins all in the same private pool for those discussions.)
Over the next few days we'll be getting the mentors to join via the GSoC web app, and quickly spin up how things are going to work. We have a long lead time between now and the summer so that students can write up good proposals with mentors' help, and have time to get to know each other as individuals and a group before the summer coding season kicks off.
I'm also going to start reaching out to all the mentors to make sure we have scope and integration points consolidated for all the efforts that ramp up, and make sure we're all integrating, deliverying code etc in a single process ( and finally, make sure that the work scope is relevant for a 3 month dev cycle ).
+1.
By my above, I'd expect those discussions on this list.
Also, mentors need to sign up at google-melange.com and get connected to the project, but I'll handle reaching out to them to do that.
Finally, if /anyone/ wants to be a mentor but not assigned to a student directly, we can always use help reviewing application proposals. The goal is to help students write good proposals so we are sifting through silver looking for gold (rather than sifting through dirt looking for silver.)
ref: 1) http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-gsoc 2) http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-gsocadmin 3) http://wiki.centos.org/GSoC/HowToApply
- -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade .^\ CentOS Doer of Stuff http://TheOpenSourceWay.org \ http://community.redhat.com @quaid (identi.ca/twitter/IRC) \v' gpg: AD0E0C41
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KB:
Can you look at the excerpt below and let me know what you think?
tl;dnr - I'd like to get consensus right away on where we'll be having the technical part of the student/mentor discussions. Some cases it will be in the upstream project space, but I think best practice especially during the coding time of the Summer is to use "the usual channels", i.e. centos-devel and #centos-devel.
Regards, - - Karsten
On 03/03/2015 11:07 AM, Karsten Wade wrote:
On 03/03/2015 05:09 AM, Karanbir Singh wrote:
Just to be clear here, you meant that the centos-gsoc[1] list was going to be used for the GSoC specific content and the gsocadmin[2] list was for the adminstration stuff right ? Thats what we say on the wiki pages[3] and thats my understanding on how things are setup.
Lets not move the gsoc specific content to centos-devel if we dont need to.
I think we're saying the same thing. Does this align?
- If it's administrivia about how GSoC runs in the project,
discussions on dates & timing, announcements that specific deadlines are approaching, etc. == centos-gsoc@
- If it's about developing code, working with the community,
integrating with upstream and across the ecosystem, etc. == centos-devel@
Goal being to keep the GSoC-specific noise off this list, but keep all CentOS development on this list. GSoC students are generally considered to be actively developing for the project (as new contributors), so should be using all the usual communication channels.
If I don't have that right, let me know the concern.
- -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade .^\ CentOS Doer of Stuff http://TheOpenSourceWay.org \ http://community.redhat.com @quaid (identi.ca/twitter/IRC) \v' gpg: AD0E0C41
Hi,
On 03/09/2015 10:22 PM, Karsten Wade wrote:
KB:
Can you look at the excerpt below and let me know what you think?
tl;dnr - I'd like to get consensus right away on where we'll be having the technical part of the student/mentor discussions. Some cases it will be in the upstream project space, but I think best practice especially during the coding time of the Summer is to use "the usual channels", i.e. centos-devel and #centos-devel.
Thought we already closed on this, I agree : tech content, about the distro - #centos-devel( irc+list) gsoc specific / admin specific - #gsoc (irc+list)
Having worked with the ideas in prep for this, everyone of the efforts is going to have integration points with other efforts, and in many cases with ongoing centos development activities ( either in infra/ cbs / ci / release stuff ), so keeping those conversations to #centos-devel makes the most sense.
Regards
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On 03/10/2015 05:32 AM, Karanbir Singh wrote:
Hi,
On 03/09/2015 10:22 PM, Karsten Wade wrote:
KB:
Can you look at the excerpt below and let me know what you think?
tl;dnr - I'd like to get consensus right away on where we'll be having the technical part of the student/mentor discussions. Some cases it will be in the upstream project space, but I think best practice especially during the coding time of the Summer is to use "the usual channels", i.e. centos-devel and #centos-devel.
Thought we already closed on this, I agree : tech content, about the distro - #centos-devel( irc+list) gsoc specific / admin specific - #gsoc (irc+list)
Having worked with the ideas in prep for this, everyone of the efforts is going to have integration points with other efforts, and in many cases with ongoing centos development activities ( either in infra/ cbs / ci / release stuff ), so keeping those conversations to #centos-devel makes the most sense.
Thanks, I wasn't clear on the answer, just wanted to make sure before telling all the mentors and students.
- - Karsten - -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade .^\ CentOS Doer of Stuff http://TheOpenSourceWay.org \ http://community.redhat.com @quaid (identi.ca/twitter/IRC) \v' gpg: AD0E0C41
Hi all, do you have a process in mind for selecting GSoC applicants? Regards Lars
On 10 Mar 2015, at 23:28, Karsten Wade kwade@redhat.com wrote:
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On 03/10/2015 05:32 AM, Karanbir Singh wrote:
Hi,
On 03/09/2015 10:22 PM, Karsten Wade wrote:
KB:
Can you look at the excerpt below and let me know what you think?
tl;dnr - I'd like to get consensus right away on where we'll be having the technical part of the student/mentor discussions. Some cases it will be in the upstream project space, but I think best practice especially during the coding time of the Summer is to use "the usual channels", i.e. centos-devel and #centos-devel.
Thought we already closed on this, I agree : tech content, about the distro - #centos-devel( irc+list) gsoc specific / admin specific - #gsoc (irc+list)
Having worked with the ideas in prep for this, everyone of the efforts is going to have integration points with other efforts, and in many cases with ongoing centos development activities ( either in infra/ cbs / ci / release stuff ), so keeping those conversations to #centos-devel makes the most sense.
Thanks, I wasn't clear on the answer, just wanted to make sure before telling all the mentors and students.
- Karsten
Karsten 'quaid' Wade .^\ CentOS Doer of Stuff http://TheOpenSourceWay.org \ http://community.redhat.com @quaid (identi.ca/twitter/IRC) \v' gpg: AD0E0C41 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1
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On 03/23/2015 04:45 AM, Lars Kurth wrote:
Hi all, do you have a process in mind for selecting GSoC applicants?
I don't think the process varies by that much project to project, this is what I've used and seen in the past:
1. Mentors work directly in public to answer all questions in advance and during the proposal process. Any new info can be carried in to the relevant Idea page.
2. Students begin writing application proposals in the Melange tool.
3. /All/ mentors read through at least the proposals related to the idea they are mentoring for, and are encouraged to read through all the proposals in general.
4. Before the application deadline, mentors make suggestions and requests of students to improve the application proposal.
5. After the application deadline, mentors continue to work with students to improve and polish the application.
6. During that process it often becomes obvious which students have a chance of doing the work. The proposal process is a miniature experience similar to the whole GSoC process -- students have to learn to ask smart questions, turn those in to a work product, and interact positively with the mentors.
7. There is a step in the timeline where the mentors will deliberate on the proposals in private. Part of that work is to rank the proposals in an honest way, which is more important than fighting to get our own personal proposal to be ranked higher just because we want it to be accepted.
Our exact end-game process will happen during the last step, with some of the process creation happening as we go through the earlier steps.
- - Karsten
Regards Lars
On 10 Mar 2015, at 23:28, Karsten Wade kwade@redhat.com wrote:
On 03/10/2015 05:32 AM, Karanbir Singh wrote:
Hi,
On 03/09/2015 10:22 PM, Karsten Wade wrote:
KB:
Can you look at the excerpt below and let me know what you think?
tl;dnr - I'd like to get consensus right away on where we'll be having the technical part of the student/mentor discussions. Some cases it will be in the upstream project space, but I think best practice especially during the coding time of the Summer is to use "the usual channels", i.e. centos-devel and #centos-devel.
Thought we already closed on this, I agree : tech content, about the distro - #centos-devel( irc+list) gsoc specific / admin specific - #gsoc (irc+list)
Having worked with the ideas in prep for this, everyone of the efforts is going to have integration points with other efforts, and in many cases with ongoing centos development activities ( either in infra/ cbs / ci / release stuff ), so keeping those conversations to #centos-devel makes the most sense.
Thanks, I wasn't clear on the answer, just wanted to make sure before telling all the mentors and students.
- Karsten
_______________________________________________ CentOS-devel mailing list CentOS-devel@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
_______________________________________________ CentOS-devel mailing list CentOS-devel@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
- -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade .^\ CentOS Doer of Stuff http://TheOpenSourceWay.org \ http://community.redhat.com @quaid (identi.ca/twitter/IRC) \v' gpg: AD0E0C41
Karsten,
what I really wanted to ask is how the CentOS community wants to handle 7, assuming there are always too many GSoC applicants. All the other steps are understood.
What I did in the past was to organize 1-3 private meetings with mentors to come up with a shortlist and figure out how many slots to allocate. The scoring mechanism is OK, but people tend to give their proposals often a higher score than they should and mentors have different expectations. Coming up with a shortlist (or ordered list of applicants) can be a bit of a chore for larger projects and there could be disagreements between mentors of course. And from past experience I found that it is better to focus on the best students and the ones who engage with the mailing list very publicly straight from the beginning. Those who don't rarely tend to engage more during the program.
With Easter being pretty soon and many Europeans being on vacation, it may make sense to start planning 7 soon. The slot application deadline is 2 weeks after the application deadline and then there is a bit more than a week after that to make a selection. * 27 March: 19:00 UTC - Student application deadline. * Interim Period: Mentoring organizations review and rank student proposals; where necessary, mentoring organizations may request further proposal detail from the student applicant. * 13 April: Mentoring organizations should have requested slots via their profile in Melange by this point. * 15 April: Slot allocations published to mentoring organizations. * 21 April: Chose the students we want to take (with 1 or two back-ups in case they applied for other orgs too)
Regards Lars
On 23 Mar 2015, at 15:57, Karsten Wade kwade@redhat.com wrote:
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On 03/23/2015 04:45 AM, Lars Kurth wrote:
Hi all, do you have a process in mind for selecting GSoC applicants?
I don't think the process varies by that much project to project, this is what I've used and seen in the past:
- Mentors work directly in public to answer all questions in advance
and during the proposal process. Any new info can be carried in to the relevant Idea page.
Students begin writing application proposals in the Melange tool.
/All/ mentors read through at least the proposals related to the
idea they are mentoring for, and are encouraged to read through all the proposals in general.
- Before the application deadline, mentors make suggestions and
requests of students to improve the application proposal.
- After the application deadline, mentors continue to work with
students to improve and polish the application.
- During that process it often becomes obvious which students have a
chance of doing the work. The proposal process is a miniature experience similar to the whole GSoC process -- students have to learn to ask smart questions, turn those in to a work product, and interact positively with the mentors.
- There is a step in the timeline where the mentors will deliberate
on the proposals in private. Part of that work is to rank the proposals in an honest way, which is more important than fighting to get our own personal proposal to be ranked higher just because we want it to be accepted.
Our exact end-game process will happen during the last step, with some of the process creation happening as we go through the earlier steps.
- Karsten
Regards Lars
On 10 Mar 2015, at 23:28, Karsten Wade kwade@redhat.com wrote:
On 03/10/2015 05:32 AM, Karanbir Singh wrote:
Hi,
On 03/09/2015 10:22 PM, Karsten Wade wrote:
KB:
Can you look at the excerpt below and let me know what you think?
tl;dnr - I'd like to get consensus right away on where we'll be having the technical part of the student/mentor discussions. Some cases it will be in the upstream project space, but I think best practice especially during the coding time of the Summer is to use "the usual channels", i.e. centos-devel and #centos-devel.
Thought we already closed on this, I agree : tech content, about the distro - #centos-devel( irc+list) gsoc specific / admin specific - #gsoc (irc+list)
Having worked with the ideas in prep for this, everyone of the efforts is going to have integration points with other efforts, and in many cases with ongoing centos development activities ( either in infra/ cbs / ci / release stuff ), so keeping those conversations to #centos-devel makes the most sense.
Thanks, I wasn't clear on the answer, just wanted to make sure before telling all the mentors and students.
- Karsten
_______________________________________________ CentOS-devel mailing list CentOS-devel@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
_______________________________________________ CentOS-devel mailing list CentOS-devel@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
Karsten 'quaid' Wade .^\ CentOS Doer of Stuff http://TheOpenSourceWay.org \ http://community.redhat.com @quaid (identi.ca/twitter/IRC) \v' gpg: AD0E0C41 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
On 03/24/2015 05:42 AM, Lars Kurth wrote:
Karsten,
what I really wanted to ask is how the CentOS community wants to handle 7, assuming there are always too many GSoC applicants. All the other steps are understood.
Thanks, & just getting around to replying, sorry for the delay.
What I did in the past was to organize 1-3 private meetings with mentors to come up with a shortlist and figure out how many slots to allocate. The scoring mechanism is OK, but people tend to give their proposals often a higher score than they should and mentors have different expectations. Coming up with a shortlist (or ordered list of applicants) can be a bit of a chore for larger projects and there could be disagreements between mentors of course.
I don't really have any issues with that approach, it's different than what I've done in the past. I haven't had too many issues with not being able to sort out the priority order -- mentors are usually honest when they are up-voting for personal desire v. because they like/dislike other proposals.
And from past experience I found that it is better to focus on the best students and the ones who engage with the mailing list very publicly straight from the beginning. Those who don't rarely tend to engage more during the program.
This is quite true.
Anyway, I'm glad we discussed this transparently here, but as it's about GSoC process (v. technical discussion), I'm going to start a new thread on centos-gsoc@ list to discuss our proposal finalizing process.
- - Karsten-- Karsten 'quaid' Wade .^\ CentOS Doer of Stuff http://TheOpenSourceWay.org \ http://community.redhat.com @quaid (identi.ca/twitter/IRC) \v' gpg: AD0E0C41
-
Karanbir Singh -
Karsten Wade -
Lars Kurth -
Saket Sinha