I disagree. I suspect many who would like to run it on 32bit aren't on this list and, like me, are running CentOS on older hardware that cannot support the 64 bit version.
I would really like to be able to just upgrade in place my 6.5 server to 7.x some day but if I can't then it will just stay a 6.x server until I can scrape up some 64 bit hardware.
On Tue, 22 Jul 2014, Charlie Brady wrote:
On Wed, 16 Jul 2014, Bradford Lilly wrote:
I'm trying to get involved with the 32bit Centos 7 build. I saw some talk of it back in January, but haven't been able to find anything since.
Maybe that's because there's not many people who think it is worth the effort.
Does anyone have any thoughts as to where I can start / how I can help?
Thanks,
-Brad
What hardware do you have that doesn't support 64-bit?
R.
On 24 July 2014 13:56, Bruce Ferry bruce@ak8b.us wrote:
I disagree. I suspect many who would like to run it on 32bit aren't on this list and, like me, are running CentOS on older hardware that cannot support the 64 bit version.
I would really like to be able to just upgrade in place my 6.5 server to 7.x some day but if I can't then it will just stay a 6.x server until I can scrape up some 64 bit hardware.
On Tue, 22 Jul 2014, Charlie Brady wrote:
On Wed, 16 Jul 2014, Bradford Lilly wrote:
I'm trying to get involved with the 32bit Centos 7 build. I saw some
talk
of it back in January, but haven't been able to find anything since.
Maybe that's because there's not many people who think it is worth the effort.
Does anyone have any thoughts as to where I can start / how I can
help?
Thanks,
-Brad
-- Bruce Ferry, AK8B _______________________________________________ CentOS-devel mailing list CentOS-devel@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 02:13:09PM +0100, Robin Bowes wrote:
What hardware do you have that doesn't support 64-bit? R.
Dunno about the OP, but I have an Asus eeepc 901. 32-bit Atom. right now it's running Fedora 20.
Fred
On 24 July 2014 13:56, Bruce Ferry <[1]bruce@ak8b.us> wrote:
I disagree. I suspect many who would like to run it on 32bit aren't on this list and, like me, are running CentOS on older hardware that cannot support the 64 bit version. I would really like to be able to just upgrade in place my 6.5 server to 7.x some day but if I can't then it will just stay a 6.x server until I can scrape up some 64 bit hardware. On Tue, 22 Jul 2014, Charlie Brady wrote:  > On Wed, 16 Jul 2014, Bradford Lilly wrote:  >  > > I'm trying to get  involved with the 32bit Centos 7 build. I saw some talk  > > of it back in January, but haven't been able to find anything since.  >  > Maybe that's because there's not many people who think it is worth the  > effort.  >  > > Does anyone have any thoughts as to where I can start / how I can help?  > >  > > Thanks,  > >  > > -Brad  > > -- Bruce Ferry, AK8B _______________________________________________ CentOS-devel mailing list [2]CentOS-devel@centos.org [3]http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-develReferences
- mailto:bruce@ak8b.us
- mailto:CentOS-devel@centos.org
- http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
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There's also a very large commercial 32bit user base that is being abandoned by the upstream. I know the "Centos marks" can't be used in commercial markets, but this is a topic that could use some thought.
I'm talking on the order of hundreds of thousands of platforms that require newer os features, but logistics fail to allow the hardware to be updated. I'm not talking theoretical here, I'm talking of a legitimate case where the upstream is abandoning its existing customer base and trying to force hardware upgrade schedules. Is it past time everything was 64bit? Sure. Does that mean I can just wave a magic wand and make it happen on their schedule? Absolutely not. On Jul 24, 2014 9:42 AM, "Fred Smith" fredex@fcshome.stoneham.ma.us wrote:
On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 02:13:09PM +0100, Robin Bowes wrote:
What hardware do you have that doesn't support 64-bit? R.
Dunno about the OP, but I have an Asus eeepc 901. 32-bit Atom. right now it's running Fedora 20.
Fred
On 24 July 2014 13:56, Bruce Ferry <[1]bruce@ak8b.us> wrote:
I disagree. I suspect many who would like to run it on 32bit aren't on this list and, like me, are running CentOS on older hardware that cannot support the 64 bit version. I would really like to be able to just upgrade in place my 6.5 server to 7.x some day but if I can't then it will just stay a 6.x server until I can scrape up some 64 bit hardware. On Tue, 22 Jul 2014, Charlie Brady wrote:  > On Wed, 16 Jul 2014, Bradford Lilly wrote:  >  > > I'm trying to get  involved with the 32bit Centos 7 build. I saw some talk  > > of it back in January, but haven't been able to find anything since.  >  > Maybe that's because there's not many people who think it is worth the  > effort.  >  > > Does anyone have any thoughts as to where I can start / how I can help?  > >  > > Thanks,  > >  > > -Brad  > > -- Bruce Ferry, AK8B _______________________________________________ CentOS-devel mailing list [2]CentOS-devel@centos.org [3]http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-develReferences
- mailto:bruce@ak8b.us
- mailto:CentOS-devel@centos.org
- http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
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--
---- Fred Smith -- fredex@fcshome.stoneham.ma.us
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."------------------------------ Matthew 7:21 (niv)
CentOS-devel mailing list CentOS-devel@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
Greetings,
----- Original Message -----
There's also a very large commercial 32bit user base that is being abandoned by the upstream. I know the "Centos marks" can't be used in commercial markets, but this is a topic that could use some thought.
I'm talking on the order of hundreds of thousands of platforms that require newer os features, but logistics fail to allow the hardware to be updated. I'm not talking theoretical here, I'm talking of a legitimate case where the upstream is abandoning its existing customer base and trying to force hardware upgrade schedules. Is it past time everything was 64bit? Sure. Does that mean I can just wave a magic wand and make it happen on their schedule? Absolutely not.
Upstream has also "abandoned" a significant number of hardware RAID cards and network cards in EL7. I have a few HP Proliant 64-bit servers that are about 6 or 7 years old... and the RAID card isn't detected in 7 where it was in 6. I've heard a few other people mention the same thing with regards to their NICs.
So besides the hundreds of thousands of existing systems running 32-bit only, there are also quite a few other systems that are incompatible with EL7 because of other hardware.
Answer, continue to use 6 for the years it has left.
If EL6 died on EL7 release day, then yes there would be an "abandonment"... but since 6 still has a few years left on it, not so much.
TYL,
The problem is, in my specific case, I have a requirement to move to kernel 3.10. 3.10 requires changes to udev. udev then requires systemd ... you see where this is going. Just upgrading EL6 isn't an option and very quickly becomes a maintenance / support nightmare.
On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 11:15 AM, Scott Dowdle dowdle@montanalinux.org wrote:
Greetings,
----- Original Message -----
There's also a very large commercial 32bit user base that is being abandoned by the upstream. I know the "Centos marks" can't be used in commercial markets, but this is a topic that could use some thought.
I'm talking on the order of hundreds of thousands of platforms that require newer os features, but logistics fail to allow the hardware to be updated. I'm not talking theoretical here, I'm talking of a legitimate case where the upstream is abandoning its existing customer base and trying to force hardware upgrade schedules. Is it past time everything was 64bit? Sure. Does that mean I can just wave a magic wand and make it happen on their schedule? Absolutely not.
Upstream has also "abandoned" a significant number of hardware RAID cards and network cards in EL7. I have a few HP Proliant 64-bit servers that are about 6 or 7 years old... and the RAID card isn't detected in 7 where it was in 6. I've heard a few other people mention the same thing with regards to their NICs.
So besides the hundreds of thousands of existing systems running 32-bit only, there are also quite a few other systems that are incompatible with EL7 because of other hardware.
Answer, continue to use 6 for the years it has left.
If EL6 died on EL7 release day, then yes there would be an "abandonment"... but since 6 still has a few years left on it, not so much.
TYL,
Scott Dowdle 704 Church Street Belgrade, MT 59714 (406)388-0827 [home] (406)994-3931 [work] _______________________________________________ CentOS-devel mailing list CentOS-devel@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
On 2014-07-24, Bradford Lilly bradford.r.lilly.ctr@gmail.com wrote:
The problem is, in my specific case, I have a requirement to move to kernel 3.10. 3.10 requires changes to udev. udev then requires systemd ... you see where this is going. Just upgrading EL6 isn't an option and very quickly becomes a maintenance / support nightmare.
I am successfully running 3.14 from the aforementioned ELRepo on a CentOS 6 box. And pulling from ELRepo eases the maintenance issues as well, since all their kernels are easily available via their yum repo.
On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 11:15 AM, Scott Dowdle dowdle@montanalinux.org
Upstream has also "abandoned" a significant number of hardware RAID cards and network cards in EL7.
I think this is a separate issue from running 32bit CentOS. In your example, the problem is potentially solved by porting the appropriate kernel module to the CentOS 7 kernel. But it's currently impossible to run CentOS 7 on 32 bit, period. It's a lot less work to try to port one module to CentOS 64bit than to port every package to CentOS 32bit.
--keith
Keith ... I'm currently running a 3.10 kernel on Centos6, but I keep running into udev issues. What I found was the sysfs has changed significantly enough from 2.6.32 to 3.10 that SUBSYSTEM references in udev rules no longer resolve properly. For home use, this may not be too noticeable, but our application relies heavily on udev.
For my needs to be met, I'm going to need a 32bit enterprise linux 7 derivative ... CentOS or otherwise. Rather than just hope it will happen eventually, I'm trying to get involved. There were some good pointers on things that need done already mentioned, and come mid-august I'm going to be devoting a fair amount of time to these. If you guys all have other solutions that work for you instead of a 32 bit EL7, that's great. My project needs EL7 32 though, so that means I'm making something work one way or another. Just figured there were others in the community that had similar needs.
On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 3:03 PM, Keith Keller < kkeller@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us> wrote:
On 2014-07-24, Bradford Lilly bradford.r.lilly.ctr@gmail.com wrote:
The problem is, in my specific case, I have a requirement to move to
kernel
3.10. 3.10 requires changes to udev. udev then requires systemd ... you
see
where this is going. Just upgrading EL6 isn't an option and very quickly becomes a maintenance / support nightmare.
I am successfully running 3.14 from the aforementioned ELRepo on a CentOS 6 box. And pulling from ELRepo eases the maintenance issues as well, since all their kernels are easily available via their yum repo.
On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 11:15 AM, Scott Dowdle dowdle@montanalinux.org
Upstream has also "abandoned" a significant number of hardware RAID
cards
and network cards in EL7.
I think this is a separate issue from running 32bit CentOS. In your example, the problem is potentially solved by porting the appropriate kernel module to the CentOS 7 kernel. But it's currently impossible to run CentOS 7 on 32 bit, period. It's a lot less work to try to port one module to CentOS 64bit than to port every package to CentOS 32bit.
--keith
-- kkeller@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
CentOS-devel mailing list CentOS-devel@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
On 24/07/14 16:15, Scott Dowdle wrote:
Greetings,
----- Original Message -----
There's also a very large commercial 32bit user base that is being abandoned by the upstream. I know the "Centos marks" can't be used in commercial markets, but this is a topic that could use some thought.
I'm talking on the order of hundreds of thousands of platforms that require newer os features, but logistics fail to allow the hardware to be updated. I'm not talking theoretical here, I'm talking of a legitimate case where the upstream is abandoning its existing customer base and trying to force hardware upgrade schedules. Is it past time everything was 64bit? Sure. Does that mean I can just wave a magic wand and make it happen on their schedule? Absolutely not.
Upstream has also "abandoned" a significant number of hardware RAID cards and network cards in EL7. I have a few HP Proliant 64-bit servers that are about 6 or 7 years old... and the RAID card isn't detected in 7 where it was in 6. I've heard a few other people mention the same thing with regards to their NICs.
So besides the hundreds of thousands of existing systems running 32-bit only, there are also quite a few other systems that are incompatible with EL7 because of other hardware.
ELRepo.org can help with those cases, especially the disabled NICs. Some have already been done (e.g 3c59x and forcedeth) and it's pretty simple to do for others so just file an RFE for the drivers you require at http://elrepo.org/bugs
Answer, continue to use 6 for the years it has left.
If EL6 died on EL7 release day, then yes there would be an "abandonment"... but since 6 still has a few years left on it, not so much.
TYL,
On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 11:15 AM, Scott Dowdle dowdle@montanalinux.org wrote:
Greetings,
----- Original Message -----
There's also a very large commercial 32bit user base that is being abandoned by the upstream. I know the "Centos marks" can't be used in commercial markets, but this is a topic that could use some thought.
I'm talking on the order of hundreds of thousands of platforms that require newer os features, but logistics fail to allow the hardware to be updated. I'm not talking theoretical here, I'm talking of a legitimate case where the upstream is abandoning its existing customer base and trying to force hardware upgrade schedules. Is it past time everything was 64bit? Sure. Does that mean I can just wave a magic wand and make it happen on their schedule? Absolutely not.
Upstream has also "abandoned" a significant number of hardware RAID cards and network cards in EL7. I have a few HP Proliant 64-bit servers that are about 6 or 7 years old... and the RAID card isn't detected in 7 where it was in 6. I've heard a few other people mention the same thing with regards to their NICs.
What's the model? If you say "Promise", I don't blame upstream. Those things were *horrible*. And a lot of RAID cards frankly weren't, they offloaded a stack of the processing to the main CPU, with the result of fragile integration and poor performance. Real RAID cards became more and more difficult to find on hardware at about that time, cheapo onboard controllers were replacing RAID cards. And oh, lord, those MegaRAID chipsets weren't much better than Promise. I always had good success with 3Ware: they just worked, and they cooperated with Linux in getting the drivers working well.
So besides the hundreds of thousands of existing systems running 32-bit only, there are also quite a few other systems that are incompatible with EL7 because of other hardware.
Answer, continue to use 6 for the years it has left.
If EL6 died on EL7 release day, then yes there would be an "abandonment"... but since 6 still has a few years left on it, not so much.
Yeah. And the increasing RAM and CPU burden of hte base OS also becomes more burdensome on older hardware. Moore's law continues to encourage developers to trade optimization and lean design in for features, wanted or not. (Gnome 3 and NetworkManager: Blech!)
Greetings,
----- Original Message -----
Upstream has also "abandoned" a significant number of hardware RAID cards and network cards in EL7. I have a few HP Proliant 64-bit servers that are about 6 or 7 years old... and the RAID card isn't detected in 7 where it was in 6. I've heard a few other people mention the same thing with regards to their NICs.
What's the model? If you say "Promise", I don't blame upstream. Those things were *horrible*. And a lot of RAID cards frankly weren't, they offloaded a stack of the processing to the main CPU, with the result of fragile integration and poor performance. Real RAID cards became more and more difficult to find on hardware at about that time, cheapo onboard controllers were replacing RAID cards. And oh, lord, those MegaRAID chipsets weren't much better than Promise. I always had good success with 3Ware: they just worked, and they cooperated with Linux in getting the drivers working well.
See chapter 24 of the Release Notes for a full list. There are quite a few:
https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-US/Red_Hat_Enterprise_Linux/7/htm...
TYL,
On 24/07/14 15:13, Robin Bowes wrote:
What hardware do you have that doesn't support 64-bit?
R.
I guess something : - too old to support 64bits (but yeah, even the Xeon from 10y ago already had the EMT64 extension to support 64bits : http://www.intel.com/support/processors/xeon/sb/cs-012580.htm - 22 Jun 2004) - old but not too much to already support PAE (which was already needed for C6 kernel, and probably - if someone helps for the CentOS 7 32bits port - for c7 i386 too)
Cheers,
-
Bradford Lilly -
Bruce Ferry -
Fabian Arrotin -
Fred Smith -
Keith Keller -
Ned Slider -
Nico Kadel-Garcia -
Robin Bowes -
Scott Dowdle