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Re: [CentOS-devel] Minutes for CentOS Board of Directors 2019-12-18 Meeting
by Giulio 20 Jan '20

20 Jan '20

>2. Project strategic goals: 1. AGREED: Undergo a revision of the project goals, to include a range of topics from > technical to social/cultural. Do this work transparently, reaching out to > specific community members and stakeholders such as RHEL Engineering. The only current reference to "goals" on centos.org that I can find is in the about page: "...The CentOS Project is a community-driven free software effort focused around the goal of providing a rich base platform for open source communities to build upon...." Can you clarify what you mean by "range of topics from technical to social/cultural"? Maybe using some examples? I don't remember reading anything on the centos lists about anyone suggesting to refresh the goals; is it possible to know who decided that there was a need to refresh the goals: a) Red Hat, b) Karsten Wade, c) others (who)? To me "transparently" means posting publicly about this on the centos-users list. Reaching out to specific members and RHEL engineering is the complete opposite of "transparently". OTOH, I understand Red Hat owns CentOS, so you have the right to do whatever you want with it, but please, just be open and say "Red Hat decided this". Please, don't do what corporations usually do, when they first decide what is useful to them, and then they try to put it like they are doing it for the users. Thanks

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CPE Weekly: 2020-01-17
by Aoife Moloney 18 Jan '20

18 Jan '20

Hi everyone, Welcome (back!) to the CPE team weekly project update mail! Background: The Community Platform Engineering group is the Red Hat team combining IT and release engineering from Fedora and CentOS. Our goal is to keep core servers and services running and maintained, build releases, and other strategic tasks that need more dedicated time than volunteers can give. For better communication, we will be giving weekly reports to the CentOS and Fedora communities about the general tasks and work being done. Also for better communication between our groups we have created #redhat-cpe on Freenode IRC! Please feel free to catch us there, a mail has landed on both the CentOS and Fedora devel lists with context here. High Level Project Updates: CentOS 8.1.1911 is seeding out to the mirrors! S3/Cloudfront distribution creation for Staging/PoC “Live” on mirrorlists.stg.centos.org CentOS 8 cloud images changes + jenkins jobs Update made to CentOS installation guide, which was also updated in the RHEL 7 installation guide too https://github.com/CentOS/docs-installation-guide/pull/10 Fedora: General Updates Anitya is being prepared for a new release https://teams.fedoraproject.org/project/community-fire-team/us/8?kanban-sta… https://github.com/release-monitoring/anitya/milestone/5 RabbitMQ support for jms-messaging-plugin is merged UI around the bugzilla overriding support in src.fp.o was reworked Erlang stack in Fedora was rebuilt so it would work on the s390x architecture OSBS aarch64 is in staging Deploy OpenShift cluster on aarch64 boxes Configured OSBS on the x86_64 and aarch64 Openshift cluster in staging Test build is failing Bodhi maintenance work The team looked at https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/issue/8466 New Team Initiatives CI/CD Some of our team are working across CI/CD initiatives this year. The team has identified a goal of Releng Automation, beginning with monitoring gating workflow. Right now they are forming their workflow so more updates to follow in the coming weeks on progress they are making! Sustaining Some of our team are also going to be working across sustainability initiatives, taking over more formally from the Community Fires Team. Check out the list of repos this team will be monitoring for tickets >>here<< We will have some weekly updates on tickets/issues resolved/needs action in the coming weeks! Application Retirements GDPR conversations between CPE and Red Hat are still happening surrounding some applications currently residing with the team Elections [Michal] Move to communishift is on hold till the GDPR situation is clear Fedocal Jlanda wants to try different approach due to permission errors https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/issue/8274 No progress on kanban board - looks abandoned https://teams.fedoraproject.org/project/fedora-calendar/kanban Nuancier PR from sebwoj - Porting to Fedora messaging Schema completed Few errors remains to be solved before merging Benson Muite is now working on OIDC authentication - no update Misc Fixes & Reviews https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/issue/8515 https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/issue/8464 https://pagure.io/Fedora-Infra/distgit-bugzilla-sync/pull-request/41 https://pagure.io/Fedora-Infra/distgit-bugzilla-sync/pull-request/42 https://pagure.io/Fedora-Infra/distgit-bugzilla-sync/pull-request/44 https://pagure.io/Fedora-Infra/distgit-bugzilla-sync/pull-request/45 https://pagure.io/Fedora-Infra/distgit-bugzilla-sync/pull-request/46 https://pagure.io/Fedora-Infra/distgit-bugzilla-sync/pull-request/47 Docs Reviews https://github.com/CentOS/docs-web-ui/pull/2 https://pagure.io/fedora-docs/quick-docs/pull-request/172 https://pagure.io/fedora-docs/quick-docs/pull-request/170 https://pagure.io/fedora-docs/quick-docs/pull-request/169 https://pagure.io/fedora-docs/quick-docs/pull-request/168 Note: This document is currently built from individual reports rolled into a document which we edit and copy into a final document. We are aware that this causes problems with some email readers, and are working on a method to make this less problematic. Comments? Suggestions? Feedback? Let Us Know! Kindest regards, Aoife -- Aoife Moloney Feature Driver Community Platform Engineering Team Red Hat EMEA Communications House Cork Road Waterford

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Minutes for CentOS Board of Directors 2020-01-08 meeting
by Karsten Wade 16 Jan '20

16 Jan '20

Public minutes On 2020-01-08 the CentOS Board of Directors held the first meeting of 2020, welcoming guest Rich Bowen, Community Architect for the CentOS Project. The group talked through some background for each-other as part of the framework for updating the projct goals. The Board is drafting a process that is for refreshing the project's goals openly and transparently. More details including a timeline should start rolling out in the middle of January to the centos-devel mailing list and announced on blog.centos.org. The Board then heard from Jim Perrin as head of Community Platform Engineering (CPE) about the ongoing work around the EL 8 rebuild, SIG needs, and what the path forward might look like. He covered how the teams have been making realtime changes to build systems due to the differences in how CentOS Linux 8 and CentOS Stream need to be built. Regarding some open requests, discussions on the build root are coming soon, as the team raises their heads from work that has been underway. In general, Jim reported that tooling around the build systems are improving by force. He identified Aofie Maloney as a key contact to work with Rich Bowen on highlighting the ongoing work from CPE that affects various CentOS Project constituencies. We’re all hoping this communication helps raise visibility and focus questions about work to keep everyone better informed. As a participant in the discussion, Rich Bowen agreed to write up a post for the community that covers the current situation of CentOS Linux 8 builds. This has been subsequently been posted: https://blog.centos.org/2020/01/update-state-of-centos-linux-8-and-centos-s… In support of these efforts, the Board came to the following decisions, resolutions, and agreements: 1. CentOS Project five-year goals refresh: 1. AGREED: Available co-authors of the goals will be present to discuss the effort, conduct reviews, and create works during the CentOS Dojo before FOSDEM on 31 Jan 2020. 2. ACTION: Karsten and Rich to arrange space of some kind at Dojo for open discussions around goals setting. 3. ACTION: Karsten driving goals process document through current pre-draft phase. 2. Project build systems discussion: 1. ACTION: Rich to publish a statement/status for what is happening with CentOS Linux 8. 2. ACTION: Rich to work with Aoife Moloney on what is being reported out of CPE for CentOS portion to highlight what is happening on an ongoing basis--a lot is happening, how do we highlight it? Present at the meeting: 1. Jim Perrin 2. Karsten Wade (Secretary) 3. Mike McLean 4. Ralph Angenendt 5. Tru Huynh [quorum] 6. Karanbir Singh (Chair) 7. Rich Bowen (guest) -- Karsten Wade [he/him/his]| Senior Community Architect | @quaid Red Hat Open Source Program Office (OSPO) : @redhatopen https://community.redhat.com | https://next.redhat.com | https://theopensourceway.org gpg: AD0E0C41 | https://red.ht/sig

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Update: State of CentOS Linux 8, and CentOS Stream
by Rich Bowen 15 Jan '20

15 Jan '20

We wanted to update you on what is happening, largely out of sight to most of the community, on the CentOS Linux 8 front. We have appreciated the patience of the community, but we understand that your patience won’t last forever. A lot of the work in rebuilding RHEL sources into CentOS Linux is handled by automation scripts. Due to the changes between RHEL 7 and RHEL 8, many of these scripts no longer work, and had to be fixed to reflect the new layout of the buildroot. This work has been largely completed, allowing us to pull the source from Red Hat without a lot of manual work. This, in turn, should make the process of rebuilding RHEL 8.2 go much more smoothly than RHEL 8.0 and 8.1 have done. Once 8.1 has been released, work will begin on bringing this new codebase, along with CentOS Stream, in to CBS (https://wiki.centos.org/HowTos/CommunityBuildSystem) so that SIGs can build packages for CentOS Linux 8 and CentOS Stream. We will discuss this, and give updates of progress, on the centos-devel mailing list over the coming weeks. Some of you have observed that the CentOS team tends to prioritize doing the work over talking about it. While that’s not all bad, it does tend to leave most of you in the dark as to what it is that is being worked on, and we’re committed to greater transparency going forward. Once again, we appreciate your patience as we work through the growing pains of the 8 branch. We hope to share a more detailed (projected) timeline in the days to come, with the caveat that timelines always change as they are being worked. -- Rich Bowen - rbowen(a)redhat.com @CentOSProject // @rbowen 859 351 9166

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java packages copr building issues when targeting centos-stream / epel8
by Sandro Bonazzola 13 Jan '20

13 Jan '20

Hi, not sure which mailing list to point for asking, but I've an issue while building unboundid-ldapsdk for el8 in copr. When trying to build I get dnf error: DEBUG util.py:596: No matches found for the following disable plugin patterns: local, spacewalk DEBUG util.py:598: Copr repository 46 kB/s | 3.6 kB 00:00 DEBUG util.py:596: Error: DEBUG util.py:596: Problem: conflicting requests DEBUG util.py:596: - package javapackages-local-5.3.0-2.module_el8.0.0+30+832da3a1.noarch is filtered out by modular filtering DEBUG util.py:598: (try to add '--skip-broken' to skip uninstallable packages) javapackages-local is provided in CentOS Stream / EPEL both by CentOS-8 - PowerTools(javapackages-tools-5.3.0-2.module_el8.0.0+30+832da3a1.noarch.rpm <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/PowerTools/x86_64/os/Packages/java…>) repo and CentOS-8 - AppStream( javapackages-tools-5.3.0-1.module_el8.0.0+11+5b8c10bd.noarch.rpm <http://mirror.centos.org/centos/8-stream/AppStream/x86_64/os/Packages/javap…> ). Is there a way for building in copr any java package using javapackages-local? I couldn't find a way to tell the system which module to enable or not. Thanks, -- Sandro Bonazzola MANAGER, SOFTWARE ENGINEERING, EMEA R&D RHV Red Hat EMEA <https://www.redhat.com/> sbonazzo(a)redhat.com <https://www.redhat.com/>*Red Hat respects your work life balance. Therefore there is no need to answer this email out of your office hours.*

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Re: [CentOS-devel] A Big Idea for a New Decade [was: Minutes for CentOS Board of Directors 2019-12-18 Meeting]
by Neal Gompa 12 Jan '20

12 Jan '20

On Mon, Jan 6, 2020 at 4:13 PM Matthew Miller <mattdm(a)mattdm.org> wrote: > > On Fri, Jan 03, 2020 at 03:13:53PM -0500, Karsten Wade wrote: > > As a centralizing effort, the Board agreed to revisiting the goals > > document created five years ago, and to undergo an effort to refresh those > > goals in the light of the project’s evolution. The Board will be inviting > > various stakeholders into these discussions as we undergo a public > > revision of the goals at the start of 2020. > > Wow, five years goes fast! I'd like to raise an idea for discussion and > thought, and possible further discussion between the Fedora Council and the > CentOS board. [I'm posting this in both groups.] > > Around the same time the CentOS goals were being created, Fedora was working > on plans for "Fedora.next", which included among other things Fedora Server. > I won't rehash all that here, but in short: while that succeeded at some of > its goals, it never really had the user adoption we'd hoped for. Of course, > some of that is simply a matter of lifecycle: while a fast-moving server OS > is useful in some very real cases, it's decidedly niche. > > When Fedora launched that plan, CentOS wasn't really in the "family", and > after, we just kind of existed in parallel, with some very loose > collaboration in areas like EPEL. > > Of course, things are different now. Therefore, I propose that in this next > decade, we make that collaboration stronger. Together, we have a very nice > answer to the fundamental problem of unified operating systems. That is, > some parts move too fast and other parts move too slowly. Between Fedora and > CentOS, we have answers to both! And, with the in-progress dist-git merge, > we even have both _in the same place_. > > Specifically, I'd like to suggest three things. > > First, let's replace Fedora Server as a user-focused artifact with CentOS > Stream. There's still a need for a Fedora Server as an upstream, but most > users of Fedora as a server are making custom builds (or using the basic > Cloud image), not using Fedora Server per se. So, I think we should stop > marketing that to users, and steer people with server use cases outside of > the fast-moving niche to CentOS Stream. The current story of CentOS and > Fedora is pretty confusing to users, and Stream only makes it more so. Let's > simplify things! > > Second, where there's overlap, let's look at merging Fedora and CentOS SIGs > into joint bodies. We have groups like the cloud image SIGs which are > basically doing the exact same thing in two different ways. Same thing with > containers. We also have huge overlaps in documentation and community user > support and all sorts of non-technical project areas. I'm not saying these > all need to be smooshed together, but where it makes sense let's work > together. This, too, brings simplification to the "what's with CentOS vs. > Fedora" story: rather than making contributors pick, we can welcome all with > open arms. > > And finally, let's really take advantage of a merged dist-git repository, > and the capabilities that Modularity gives us. SIGs building things for > CentOS should be able to directly reference Fedora branches where > faster-moving software is useful — and people building things in Fedora > should be able to pull in branches from Stream where a slower-moving version > would make sense. And we could even make additional shared branches where > necessary, using modularity to make optional streams which could be used in > CentOS SIGs, EPEL, or a Fedora OS. > > What do you think? > First, sorry that this email probably doesn't thread will with either one or the other target mailing lists... I had to pick one to thread with, and other slightly loses. The downside of the initial email not being sent to both MLs at once. :( In concept, I certainly see value in bringing CentOS and Fedora closer. However, I think eliminating Fedora variants in favor of CentOS Stream ones (aka rhel-rawhide based variants) is probably premature. There are several issues with doing this as it currently stands: 1. CentOS Koji is pretty closed to a couple of folks in CentOS and Red Hat. This also includes blocking the download of artifacts from Koji. For reasons I don't understand, CentOS is still gated by the RHEL QE folks, and thus RPMs built in Koji cannot be downloaded until they are finally published. This ruins any testing/development before releasing to users. The CBS is a worthless substitute since it's purely for addons. I've been around long enough to remember when Fedora was like this, and back then, it wasn't really considered "okay" for Fedora to be like that (the intent was always there to fix it, and we eventually did!). Today, however, it is considered "okay", and that's a problem. 2. The CentOS community is simply not mature enough to take on the role Fedora does in any meaningful capacity. We already know that this is a problem even with Fedora EPEL, and I strongly believe the issue would be massively magnified if those transitioned to the CentOS Project. The CentOS community is largely a user community that takes and does not give back much, if at all. I've experienced variations of this issue when people (even from Red Hat!) have done finger-pointing to *me* with my packages in EPEL without any acknowledgement that they could have helped. It's depressing that even some Red Hatters consider EPEL not worth contributing to, but still worth being upset about. 3. Today, the CentOS Project is (sadly) a community project in a very superficial sense. Aside from the Virt SIG's Xen subgroup, all SIGs are basically Red Hat product teams, with varying degrees of allowances for community contributions. The community processes within CentOS are mostly nonfunctional because they've had no reason to develop it. There has been very little community development for CentOS. Even with Fermilab and CERN shutting down Scientific Linux, I haven't seen anything from those people coming "into the fold". There's been no outreach or collaboration with other CentOS based derivatives, commercial or otherwise. The private discussions I've had on the matter seem to indicate that there's still ambivalence, if not outright antipathy and hostility toward the broader ecosystem of CentOS derivatives. What I'm more concerned about is that if you eliminate Fedora from any meaningful server based development, you strip all the opportunities for people to iterate on server-oriented changes before they go into rhel-rawhide and push into CentOS Stream. You also essentially kneecap any motivation for other things related to server environments to iterate faster (such as language stacks that are heavily used for web service software) because you've eliminated the major ability for that to ship to users and contributors. It also further accelerates a trend that I think we need to reverse where people consider Fedora unacceptable for server roles. If anything, Fedora is a lot better at being used for servers then it was five years ago. I've personally *stopped* using CentOS for servers because Fedora has gotten so good at it. Upgrades are a breeze and stuff generally works. When it doesn't, it's fixable! That last part is key. With CentOS, it's not, because it has to bounce back into Red Hat first. And Red Hat doesn't really care about issues discovered by CentOS users, and there are no "CentOS developers". So, what this long email is actually saying is that I think it's an interesting idea to bring the two projects together, but eliminating aspects of Fedora in favor of CentOS is premature because CentOS has not actually developed as a community project. Maybe it's worth revisiting after six years of actual community development? -- 真実はいつも一つ！/ Always, there's only one truth!

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Minutes for CentOS Board of Directors 2019-12-18 Meeting
by Karsten Wade 10 Jan '20

10 Jan '20

>From https://blog.centos.org/2020/01/minutes-for-centos-board-of-directors-2019-… Public minutes On 2019-12-18 the CentOS Board of Directors held the final meeting of the 2019 calendar year. The meeting was focused primarily on how the Board can lead the project further into being a contributor-centric open source project while continuing to deliver value to our community of users. Of particular interest is growing participation in CentOS Streams in addition to ongoing efforts around CentOS SIGs. As a centralizing effort, the Board agreed to revisiting the goals document created five years ago, and to undergo an effort to refresh those goals in the light of the project’s evolution. The Board will be inviting various stakeholders into these discussions as we undergo a public revision of the goals at the start of 2020. In support of these efforts, the Board came to the following decisions, resolutions, and agreements: 1. Image creation, signing, and distribution: 1. AGREED: Board agrees there is a significant technical debt in the content flow. To address this the Board authorizes Community Platform Engineering (CPE) to commit engineering toward addressing this in early CY 2020. 2. ACTION: Jim to work with Fabian/CPE to begin working on a signing and release solution for SIGs, work starting in Jan 2020. 3. ACTION: Prioritize transparency and reporting to foster a better understanding of the build process for CentOS Linux 8, with an emphasis on the update lag/point release challenges 2. Project strategic goals: 1. AGREED: Undergo a revision of the project goals, to include a range of topics from technical to social/cultural. Do this work transparently, reaching out to specific community members and stakeholders such as RHEL Engineering. 3. Consent agenda items: 1. AGREED: Secretary role revitalized -- not formally in the governance yet, role is delegated meeting organization and management duties from the Chair to include calling for meetings, managing the private and public agenda for meetings, and handling the creation and release of private and public minutes. Karsten Wade has volunteered to take this role until approximately June 2020. 2. ACTION: Early in 2020 Karsten & KB to draft governance updates to reflect the Secretary role. AGREED: Board confirms support for planning a shift to sharing auth backends with the Fedora Project. -- Karsten Wade [he/him/his]| Senior Community Architect | @quaid Red Hat Open Source Program Office (OSPO) : @redhatopen https://community.redhat.com | https://next.redhat.com | https://theopensourceway.org gpg: AD0E0C41 | https://red.ht/sig

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Re: [CentOS-devel] keepassxc dependency issue
by Andy Hall 09 Jan '20

09 Jan '20

On Wed 8 Jan 2020 Troy Dawson wrote... "I wonder if it's a matter of epel-playground vs epel. It looks like you have to have both enabled if you want to install it." That was exactly it - thanks very much.

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[cloudSIG] Meeting Logs
by Rain Leander 09 Jan '20

09 Jan '20

Mostly chatting, nothing urgent. If you're keen to join, we're thinking of shifting the meeting one hour earlier and we'd love your input. Please let us know! #centos-meeting: CentOS Cloud SIG meeting (2020-01-09)Meeting started by leanderthal at 15:02:32 UTC (full logs <https://www.centos.org/minutes/2020/January/centos-meeting.2020-01-09-15.02…> ). Meeting summary 1. *rollcall* (leanderthal <https://www.centos.org/minutes/2020/January/centos-meeting.2020-01-09-15.02…>, 15:02:40) 2. *open floor* (leanderthal <https://www.centos.org/minutes/2020/January/centos-meeting.2020-01-09-15.02…>, 15:10:33) Meeting ended at 15:20:11 UTC (full logs <https://www.centos.org/minutes/2020/January/centos-meeting.2020-01-09-15.02…> ). Action items 1. (none) People present (lines said) 1. leanderthal (21) 2. smooge (10) 3. centbot (3) -- K Rain Leander OpenStack Community Liaison Open Source Program Office https://www.rdoproject.org/ http://community.redhat.com

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Update from CentOS PaaS SIG
by Gleidson Nascimento 09 Jan '20

09 Jan '20

Hello from CentOS PaaS SIG! We have recently published an update on CentOS blog [1] about OKD v4 and its current state on CentOS. [1] https://blog.centos.org/2020/01/centos-paas-sig-quarterly-report-2/ Thanks, Gleidson

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