I see a number of different ways of naming CentOS Stream versions and it would be good to agree on a consistent one, especially as a number of other communities start to add stream support.
Specifically,
- Is it “CentOS Stream 8” or “CentOS 8 Stream” ? - Is it “cs8” or “c8s” ?
Cheers, Tim
On Wed, Mar 3, 2021, at 08:14, Tim Bell wrote:
I see a number of different ways of naming CentOS Stream versions and it would be good to agree on a consistent one, especially as a number of other communities start to add stream support.
Specifically,
- Is it “CentOS Stream 8” or “CentOS 8 Stream” ?
- Is it “cs8” or “c8s” ?
Cheers, Tim _______________________________________________ CentOS-devel mailing list CentOS-devel@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
My suggestion is:
"CentOS Stream 8"
and
"c8s"
I realize this is controversial to some, but there is some thought behind it. "CentOS Stream" is the operating system we produce, "8" is the version, but we refer to 'c8s' because that matches our regular branch structure in git.centos.org which we are planning to replicate in Gitlab for CentOS Stream 9.
We are working on a style guide published to the docs site where these things can be recorded more officially. We'll announce that here when we're open for contribution/discussion.
--Brian
On 3/3/21 6:34 AM, Brian Stinson wrote:
My suggestion is:
"CentOS Stream 8"
Additionally, this is consistent with the trademark guidelines[1], although we may need to amend/fix them to make this clear. (They may not be entirely consistent on this regard and some we have to infer.)
Basically, "CentOS" is the name of the project, and it does not carry a version number.
The guidelines allow for any number of artifacts (produced things) to come out of the project and carry a version number, by following the format of "CentOS Foo N".
My understanding is the guidelines cover this in scope by design, but if more clarity is needed, we can capture that for the Board to work on[2].
I understand that 'c8s' is there for technical reasons (cf. 'fc' in Fedora package names); does that mean forevermore that's the way it is? Or could 'cs9' be a thing?
(I don't care per-se, just that it's clarifying.)
Best regards,
- Karsten
[1] https://www.centos.org/legal/trademarks/
[2] https://git.centos.org/centos/board/issues
On Fri, Mar 5, 2021, at 11:48, Karsten Wade wrote:
On 3/3/21 6:34 AM, Brian Stinson wrote:
My suggestion is:
"CentOS Stream 8"
Additionally, this is consistent with the trademark guidelines[1], although we may need to amend/fix them to make this clear. (They may not be entirely consistent on this regard and some we have to infer.)
Basically, "CentOS" is the name of the project, and it does not carry a version number.
The guidelines allow for any number of artifacts (produced things) to come out of the project and carry a version number, by following the format of "CentOS Foo N".
My understanding is the guidelines cover this in scope by design, but if more clarity is needed, we can capture that for the Board to work on[2].
I understand that 'c8s' is there for technical reasons (cf. 'fc' in Fedora package names); does that mean forevermore that's the way it is? Or could 'cs9' be a thing?
Nothing is forevermore, but we should consider the c8s and c9s technical/branch naming conventions stable (think the API/ABI definition of stability).
(I don't care per-se, just that it's clarifying.)
Best regards,
- Karsten
[1] https://www.centos.org/legal/trademarks/
[2] https://git.centos.org/centos/board/issues
-- Karsten Wade [he/him/his]| Senior Community Architect | @quaid Red Hat Open Source Program Office (OSPO) : @redhatopen https://community.redhat.com | https://next.redhat.com | https://osci.io https://theopensourceway.org | https://github.com/theopensourceway/guide
CentOS-devel mailing list CentOS-devel@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
On 3/5/21 11:48 AM, Karsten Wade wrote:
On 3/3/21 6:34 AM, Brian Stinson wrote:
My suggestion is:
"CentOS Stream 8"
Additionally, this is consistent with the trademark guidelines[1], although we may need to amend/fix them to make this clear. (They may not be entirely consistent on this regard and some we have to infer.)
Basically, "CentOS" is the name of the project, and it does not carry a version number.
The guidelines allow for any number of artifacts (produced things) to come out of the project and carry a version number, by following the format of "CentOS Foo N".
My understanding is the guidelines cover this in scope by design, but if more clarity is needed, we can capture that for the Board to work on[2].
I understand that 'c8s' is there for technical reasons (cf. 'fc' in Fedora package names); does that mean forevermore that's the way it is? Or could 'cs9' be a thing?
I don't know the answer .. but doing it the same is much easier for scripting, etc.
But, I have not spent any time actually looking at this, not sure if anyone has at this point.
On Mon, Mar 08, 2021 at 10:16:39AM -0600, Johnny Hughes wrote:
I understand that 'c8s' is there for technical reasons (cf. 'fc' in Fedora package names); does that mean forevermore that's the way it is? Or could 'cs9' be a thing?
I don't know the answer .. but doing it the same is much easier for scripting, etc.
But, I have not spent any time actually looking at this, not sure if anyone has at this point.
A lot of scripts are going to have to be updated when the number goes to two digits anyway, so if there is a desire to mess with it, 10's probably the least bad time.
Hi Tim,
The CentOS Stream team are working on a style guide right now which we hope to publish soon, our aim is towards the middle to end of March. This will guide people wishing to add Stream on the correct version names and shorthand to use.
FWIW I refer to it as CentOS Stream <number> and c<number>s for shorthand :)
Thanks for bearing with us though on this, its being worked on actively and we hope to get something out to the public soon.
Kindest regards, Aoife
On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 2:15 PM Tim Bell tim.bell@cern.ch wrote:
I see a number of different ways of naming CentOS Stream versions and it would be good to agree on a consistent one, especially as a number of other communities start to add stream support.
Specifically,
- Is it “CentOS Stream 8” or “CentOS 8 Stream” ?
- Is it “cs8” or “c8s” ?
Cheers, Tim _______________________________________________ CentOS-devel mailing list CentOS-devel@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
Thanks, pleased to see this is being looked at.
Good to see there is a style guide in preparation.
CentOS Stream 8 and c8s would seem to be inconsistent to me (as opposed to cs8) but the most important thing is that there is an agreed standard for all the repos, VM metadata, inventories etc.
Cheers, Tim
On 3 Mar 2021, at 15:37, Aoife Moloney amoloney@redhat.com wrote:
Hi Tim,
The CentOS Stream team are working on a style guide right now which we hope to publish soon, our aim is towards the middle to end of March. This will guide people wishing to add Stream on the correct version names and shorthand to use.
FWIW I refer to it as CentOS Stream <number> and c<number>s for shorthand :)
Thanks for bearing with us though on this, its being worked on actively and we hope to get something out to the public soon.
Kindest regards, Aoife
On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 2:15 PM Tim Bell <tim.bell@cern.ch mailto:tim.bell@cern.ch> wrote:
I see a number of different ways of naming CentOS Stream versions and it would be good to agree on a consistent one, especially as a number of other communities start to add stream support.
Specifically,
- Is it “CentOS Stream 8” or “CentOS 8 Stream” ?
- Is it “cs8” or “c8s” ?
Cheers, Tim _______________________________________________ CentOS-devel mailing list CentOS-devel@centos.org mailto:CentOS-devel@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
-- Aoife Moloney Product Owner Community Platform Engineering Team Red Hat EMEA https://www.redhat.com/ Communications House Cork Road Waterford mailto:Waterford https://www.redhat.com/_______________________________________________ CentOS-devel mailing list CentOS-devel@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
Not a problem, its good to have this early feedback so thanks for bringing the topic up!
We will keep you informed when we have something in writing and its on our TODO list this month to get in place :)
Kindest regards, Aoife
On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 2:47 PM Tim Bell tim.bell@cern.ch wrote:
Thanks, pleased to see this is being looked at.
Good to see there is a style guide in preparation.
CentOS Stream 8 and c8s would seem to be inconsistent to me (as opposed to cs8) but the most important thing is that there is an agreed standard for all the repos, VM metadata, inventories etc.
Cheers, Tim
On 3 Mar 2021, at 15:37, Aoife Moloney amoloney@redhat.com wrote:
Hi Tim,
The CentOS Stream team are working on a style guide right now which we hope to publish soon, our aim is towards the middle to end of March. This will guide people wishing to add Stream on the correct version names and shorthand to use.
FWIW I refer to it as CentOS Stream <number> and c<number>s for shorthand :)
Thanks for bearing with us though on this, its being worked on actively and we hope to get something out to the public soon.
Kindest regards, Aoife
On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 2:15 PM Tim Bell tim.bell@cern.ch wrote:
I see a number of different ways of naming CentOS Stream versions and it would be good to agree on a consistent one, especially as a number of other communities start to add stream support.
Specifically,
- Is it “CentOS Stream 8” or “CentOS 8 Stream” ?
- Is it “cs8” or “c8s” ?
Cheers, Tim _______________________________________________ CentOS-devel mailing list CentOS-devel@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
-- Aoife Moloney Product Owner Community Platform Engineering Team
Red Hat EMEA https://www.redhat.com/ Communications House Cork Road Waterford https://www.redhat.com/ _______________________________________________ CentOS-devel mailing list CentOS-devel@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
CentOS-devel mailing list CentOS-devel@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
I agree with Tim about the inconsistency. I've been referring to the distro as CS8, or just CS if I'm not talking about a specific version. The branches are named the way they are for technical reasons, but there is no reason we have to use that naming pattern when discussing the distro.
On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 8:53 AM Aoife Moloney amoloney@redhat.com wrote:
Not a problem, its good to have this early feedback so thanks for bringing the topic up!
We will keep you informed when we have something in writing and its on our TODO list this month to get in place :)
Kindest regards, Aoife
On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 2:47 PM Tim Bell tim.bell@cern.ch wrote:
Thanks, pleased to see this is being looked at.
Good to see there is a style guide in preparation.
CentOS Stream 8 and c8s would seem to be inconsistent to me (as opposed to cs8) but the most important thing is that there is an agreed standard for all the repos, VM metadata, inventories etc.
Cheers, Tim
On 3 Mar 2021, at 15:37, Aoife Moloney amoloney@redhat.com wrote:
Hi Tim,
The CentOS Stream team are working on a style guide right now which we hope to publish soon, our aim is towards the middle to end of March. This will guide people wishing to add Stream on the correct version names and shorthand to use.
FWIW I refer to it as CentOS Stream <number> and c<number>s for shorthand :)
Thanks for bearing with us though on this, its being worked on actively and we hope to get something out to the public soon.
Kindest regards, Aoife
On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 2:15 PM Tim Bell tim.bell@cern.ch wrote:
I see a number of different ways of naming CentOS Stream versions and it would be good to agree on a consistent one, especially as a number of other communities start to add stream support.
Specifically,
- Is it “CentOS Stream 8” or “CentOS 8 Stream” ?
- Is it “cs8” or “c8s” ?
Cheers, Tim _______________________________________________ CentOS-devel mailing list CentOS-devel@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
-- Aoife Moloney Product Owner Community Platform Engineering Team
Red Hat EMEA https://www.redhat.com/ Communications House Cork Road Waterford https://www.redhat.com/ _______________________________________________ CentOS-devel mailing list CentOS-devel@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
CentOS-devel mailing list CentOS-devel@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
--
Aoife Moloney
Product Owner
Community Platform Engineering Team
Red Hat EMEA https://www.redhat.com
Communications House
Cork Road
Waterford https://www.redhat.com _______________________________________________ CentOS-devel mailing list CentOS-devel@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
Aoife,
Many thanks… this came up as we’re working on getting Puppet facter detecting stream correctly (https://github.com/puppetlabs/facter/pull/2291)
Tim
On 3 Mar 2021, at 16:13, Carl George carl@redhat.com wrote:
I agree with Tim about the inconsistency. I've been referring to the distro as CS8, or just CS if I'm not talking about a specific version. The branches are named the way they are for technical reasons, but there is no reason we have to use that naming pattern when discussing the distro.
On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 8:53 AM Aoife Moloney <amoloney@redhat.com mailto:amoloney@redhat.com> wrote: Not a problem, its good to have this early feedback so thanks for bringing the topic up!
We will keep you informed when we have something in writing and its on our TODO list this month to get in place :)
Kindest regards, Aoife
On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 2:47 PM Tim Bell <tim.bell@cern.ch mailto:tim.bell@cern.ch> wrote: Thanks, pleased to see this is being looked at.
Good to see there is a style guide in preparation.
CentOS Stream 8 and c8s would seem to be inconsistent to me (as opposed to cs8) but the most important thing is that there is an agreed standard for all the repos, VM metadata, inventories etc.
Cheers, Tim
On 3 Mar 2021, at 15:37, Aoife Moloney <amoloney@redhat.com mailto:amoloney@redhat.com> wrote:
Hi Tim,
The CentOS Stream team are working on a style guide right now which we hope to publish soon, our aim is towards the middle to end of March. This will guide people wishing to add Stream on the correct version names and shorthand to use.
FWIW I refer to it as CentOS Stream <number> and c<number>s for shorthand :)
Thanks for bearing with us though on this, its being worked on actively and we hope to get something out to the public soon.
Kindest regards, Aoife
On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 2:15 PM Tim Bell <tim.bell@cern.ch mailto:tim.bell@cern.ch> wrote:
I see a number of different ways of naming CentOS Stream versions and it would be good to agree on a consistent one, especially as a number of other communities start to add stream support.
Specifically,
- Is it “CentOS Stream 8” or “CentOS 8 Stream” ?
- Is it “cs8” or “c8s” ?
Cheers, Tim _______________________________________________ CentOS-devel mailing list CentOS-devel@centos.org mailto:CentOS-devel@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
-- Aoife Moloney Product Owner Community Platform Engineering Team Red Hat EMEA https://www.redhat.com/ Communications House Cork Road Waterford mailto:Waterford https://www.redhat.com/_______________________________________________ CentOS-devel mailing list CentOS-devel@centos.org mailto:CentOS-devel@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
CentOS-devel mailing list CentOS-devel@centos.org mailto:CentOS-devel@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
-- Aoife Moloney Product Owner Community Platform Engineering Team Red Hat EMEA https://www.redhat.com/ Communications House Cork Road Waterford mailto:Waterford https://www.redhat.com/_______________________________________________ CentOS-devel mailing list CentOS-devel@centos.org mailto:CentOS-devel@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
-- Carl George _______________________________________________ CentOS-devel mailing list CentOS-devel@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
Many thanks… this came up as we’re working on getting Puppet facter detecting stream correctly (https://github.com/puppetlabs/facter/pull/2291 https://github.com/puppetlabs/facter/pull/2291)
Wow, this will break a lot of puppet modules out there....
E.g. https://github.com/puppetlabs/facter/pull/2291#issuecomment-790039719
~pete
On Wed, Mar 03, 2021 at 09:42:39PM +0100, Peter Meier wrote:
Many thanks… this came up as we’re working on getting Puppet facter detecting stream correctly (https://github.com/puppetlabs/facter/pull/2291 https://github.com/puppetlabs/facter/pull/2291)
Wow, this will break a lot of puppet modules out there.... E.g. https://github.com/puppetlabs/facter/pull/2291#issuecomment-790039719
Oooooh, does it _really_ read NAME ("suitable for presentation to the user") and not ID ("suitable for processing by scripts")?
On 3/3/21 9:45 PM, Matthew Miller wrote:
On Wed, Mar 03, 2021 at 09:42:39PM +0100, Peter Meier wrote:
Many thanks… this came up as we’re working on getting Puppet facter detecting stream correctly (https://github.com/puppetlabs/facter/pull/2291 https://github.com/puppetlabs/facter/pull/2291)
Wow, this will break a lot of puppet modules out there.... E.g. https://github.com/puppetlabs/facter/pull/2291#issuecomment-790039719
Oooooh, does it _really_ read NAME ("suitable for presentation to the user") and not ID ("suitable for processing by scripts")?
Well on minimized installations (read without lsb) up to recently, there was no ID facts - https://github.com/puppetlabs/facter/pull/2280
So folks sticked to what was available:
# facter os { architecture => "x86_64", family => "RedHat", hardware => "x86_64", name => "CentOS", release => { full => "8", major => "8" }, selinux => { config_mode => "enforcing", config_policy => "targeted", current_mode => "enforcing", enabled => true, enforced => true, policy_version => "33" } }
~pete
On Wed, Mar 03, 2021 at 10:33:28PM +0100, Peter Meier wrote:
Well on minimized installations (read without lsb) up to recently, there was no ID facts - https://github.com/puppetlabs/facter/pull/2280
Huh. /etc/os-release has been available since RHEL/CentOS 7 in 2014!
On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 4:40 PM Matthew Miller mattdm@mattdm.org wrote:
On Wed, Mar 03, 2021 at 10:33:28PM +0100, Peter Meier wrote:
Well on minimized installations (read without lsb) up to recently, there was no ID facts - https://github.com/puppetlabs/facter/pull/2280
Huh. /etc/os-release has been available since RHEL/CentOS 7 in 2014!
It's been available on all major OS families except RHEL since 2012. I'm pretty sure the inability to have os-release backported to RHEL/CentOS 6 stopped Puppet from removing lsb_release as a core dependency. It was even backported to SUSE Linux Enterprise 11!
-- 真実はいつも一つ！/ Always, there's only one truth!
On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 10:13 AM Carl George carl@redhat.com wrote:
I agree with Tim about the inconsistency. I've been referring to the distro as CS8, or just CS if I'm not talking about a specific version. The branches are named the way they are for technical reasons, but there is no reason we have to use that naming pattern when discussing the distro.
I think that makes sense. Discussing and writing about CentOS Stream is separate from the technical infrastructure needed to build it. That's what Brian was speaking to as well.
While inconsistency can drive us nuts, I'd rather prioritize getting Stream up and running over having to update a number of tools to deal with s/c8s/cs8. That seems like an unnecessary delay for really little payoff.
josh
On Wed, Mar 03, 2021 at 10:21:04AM -0500, Josh Boyer wrote:
While inconsistency can drive us nuts, I'd rather prioritize getting Stream up and running over having to update a number of tools to deal with s/c8s/cs8. That seems like an unnecessary delay for really little payoff.
This is why Fedora builds are tagged with "fc" from "Fedora Core" twenty-eight releases after that was a thing. :)
On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 3:26 PM Matthew Miller mattdm@mattdm.org wrote:
On Wed, Mar 03, 2021 at 10:21:04AM -0500, Josh Boyer wrote:
While inconsistency can drive us nuts, I'd rather prioritize getting Stream up and running over having to update a number of tools to deal with s/c8s/cs8. That seems like an unnecessary delay for really little payoff.
This is why Fedora builds are tagged with "fc" from "Fedora Core" twenty-eight releases after that was a thing. :)
And it will never ever die... :P
I've been calling it CentOS Stream 8 and CS8. Our docker image is 'cs8-base' and our cloud image is 'CS8 <date>'.
However, our Koji tags are '<tag>8s-<environment>' and the dist tags are 'el8s.*'. We had to make that consistency trade-off to not over-complicate some internal tools and to try to reduce the chances of confusing Koji tag 'cern8' with 'cerns8'.
Cheers, Alex
On 3/3/21 4:13 PM, Carl George wrote:
I agree with Tim about the inconsistency. I've been referring to the distro as CS8, or just CS if I'm not talking about a specific version. The branches are named the way they are for technical reasons, but there is no reason we have to use that naming pattern when discussing the distro.
On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 8:53 AM Aoife Moloney <amoloney@redhat.com mailto:amoloney@redhat.com> wrote:
Not a problem, its good to have this early feedback so thanks for bringing the topic up! We will keep you informed when we have something in writing and its on our TODO list this month to get in place :) Kindest regards, Aoife On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 2:47 PM Tim Bell <tim.bell@cern.ch <mailto:tim.bell@cern.ch>> wrote: Thanks, pleased to see this is being looked at. Good to see there is a style guide in preparation. CentOS Stream 8 and c8s would seem to be inconsistent to me (as opposed to cs8) but the most important thing is that there is an agreed standard for all the repos, VM metadata, inventories etc. Cheers, TimOn 3 Mar 2021, at 15:37, Aoife Moloney <amoloney@redhat.com <mailto:amoloney@redhat.com>> wrote: Hi Tim, The CentOS Stream team are working on a style guide right now which we hope to publish soon, our aim is towards the middle to end of March. This will guide people wishing to add Stream on the correct version names and shorthand to use. FWIW I refer to it as CentOS Stream <number> and c<number>s for shorthand :) Thanks for bearing with us though on this, its being worked on actively and we hope to get something out to the public soon. Kindest regards, Aoife On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 2:15 PM Tim Bell <tim.bell@cern.ch <mailto:tim.bell@cern.ch>> wrote: I see a number of different ways of naming CentOS Stream versions and it would be good to agree on a consistent one, especially as a number of other communities start to add stream support. Specifically, - Is it “CentOS Stream 8” or “CentOS 8 Stream” ? - Is it “cs8” or “c8s” ? Cheers, Tim _______________________________________________ CentOS-devel mailing list CentOS-devel@centos.org <mailto:CentOS-devel@centos.org> https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel <https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel> -- Aoife Moloney Product Owner Community Platform Engineering Team Red Hat EMEA <https://www.redhat.com/> Communications House Cork Road Waterford <mailto:Waterford> <https://www.redhat.com/> _______________________________________________ CentOS-devel mailing list CentOS-devel@centos.org <mailto:CentOS-devel@centos.org> https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel <https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel>_______________________________________________ CentOS-devel mailing list CentOS-devel@centos.org <mailto:CentOS-devel@centos.org> https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel <https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel> -- Aoife Moloney Product Owner Community Platform Engineering Team Red Hat EMEA <https://www.redhat.com> Communications House Cork Road Waterford <mailto:Waterford> <https://www.redhat.com> _______________________________________________ CentOS-devel mailing list CentOS-devel@centos.org <mailto:CentOS-devel@centos.org> https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel <https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel>-- Carl George
CentOS-devel mailing list CentOS-devel@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
On Thu, Mar 4, 2021 at 3:55 AM Alex Iribarren alex.m.lists3@gmail.com wrote:
I've been calling it CentOS Stream 8 and CS8. Our docker image is 'cs8-base' and our cloud image is 'CS8 <date>'.
"s" could mean too many distinct things. Call it "c8.s", for numerical sorting reasons.
-
Alex Iribarren -
Aoife Moloney -
Brian Stinson -
Carl George -
Johnny Hughes -
Josh Boyer -
Karsten Wade -
Matthew Miller -
Neal Gompa -
Nico Kadel-Garcia -
Peter Meier -
Tim Bell